ea82 spfi to ea82 mpfi?

[man on the moon]

Hi, lurker for a while. Now I'm posting.

 

I've had a '91 Loyale (SPFI) for two years now. I love it, but the motor has finally met its maker, and so my dillema. When it finally died, I decided to replace the engine, and parked it at a friend's apartment until I could find an appropriate replacement. (I only have street parking, and can't keep it here). Anyway, their building sold the spot my car was in to the building next door, so I towed the car to the garage and went on a manhunt for a new engine. The only one I have been able to find that can also be gauranteed running when it came out of the donor car is an MPFI.

 

I have just a couple questions before I give the mechanic the go-ahead on using this engine:

1. Other than changing the hose connecting the air-filter boot thing (what's the name?) to the throttle body, are there any changes or mods I have to make in order for this to work?

• Can I swap the old intake manifold for the new one and just call it good? (Aside from the appropriate gaskets of course). Depending on the answer(s) to #1, this may be easier.
  

 

 

If it will take too much...well, it better not take too much to make this work or I'll be out a pretty penny, these engines are rarer than ice cubes in hell, it seems. Eventually I want to put an EJ22 in there, and a few other toys, but right now I just need it to run.

 

I live in the Denver area if anyone wants parts off the old engine when it's done...

[man on the moon]

And yes, I did search moderately thoroughly through the boards for threads on the same question and didn't find any, apologies if I missed one!

[Crazyeights]

The heads are different. I think the MPI EA82 heads have 2 intake ports (in addition to injector bosses) and I know the SPFI heads only have one. I have no idea how involved an SPFI to MPI EA82 conversion is so you might want to check first. I would think the engine computer and wiring harnesses would be totally different at the very minimum.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Crazyeights

[man on the moon]

I am aware the heads are different, however, in this case the engine is complete (long block) including the intake manifold and all the hoses and wires.

 

The air intake is in a different place on the manifold (back, facing rearwards, centered as opposed to top dead center for the spfi). The wiring is more what I am concerned with, and any little things like "the a/c compressor has to mount to the right of the alternator instead of to the left".

 

Another good question might be: If it doesn't work this way, can I take the heads off and put spfi heads on? Or are the oil and coolant hollows aligned differently?

[obk25xt]

AFAIK, mpfi manifold ea82's were only on the turbo models, meaning different compression ratios and such.. And then there's the ecm to take into consideration, a spfi ecm most likely won't control a mpfi setup at all. I know none of this for a fact, this is just what my limited experience and common sense is telling me. Hopefully someone with more knowledge on this will chime in and confirm some of this. Thanks, Spencer

[john in KY]

Only the XT got the NA MPFI engine. Better than average chance what you have is the turbo version of the MPFI (the turbo was removed) which means it will have the super low compression. Can't swap intakes and the SPFI ECU won't work anyways. Only way I can see this working is the heads and intake manifold have to be reused. If the pistons in the long block are dished, this means it is a turbo engine and this makes the swap a no-go also.

[WoodsWagon]

If you're going to the trouble of swapping in a MPFI EA82, you might as well buy an adapter plate and flywheel and swap in a MPFI EJ22. The wiring work would be about the same.

 

Easy swap would be either a carbed or SPFI EA82, or an EA81 with the distributor gear swapped with the EA82 SPFI distributor and the SPFI manifold put on.

[man on the moon]

Ah! This is the information I was looking for, thank you much gentlemen (and ladies, if you are one).

 

I do want a 22 someday, perhaps in six months/year? I need to save up. For the moment I will have the parts guy trade me out for an SPFI and save myself the money. Had I the space and time I would just go for it now, but I have neither and don't want to see the mechanic bill for HIM trying to figure out how to do the swap. It's enough as it is :S.

 

Thank you much . I will soon be in the "parts for sale" section selling some parts from the old engine (not the parts that don't work, dw). Then I will probably go back to mostly lurking and learning for a bit until I can become more active in the 82 --> 22 community and offroading and whatnot . That will be the day!

[man on the moon]

I have more information (talked to a dealer tech), and also a question. Question first, info in a moment.

 

1. Question: I found a running tbi motor I can pull for $200 or so, but it is in an automatic. Am I correct in assuming I can put a motor from an automatic in my 5-speed? (Aside from swapping a flywheel/clutch/pressure plate into where the flexplate was?)

 

I forgot to ask the dealer tech about this while I was there.

 

2. Regarding MPFI into an SPFI: the tech I spoke with seemed very knowledgeable about the EA82. I was impressed, considering the EA82 is probably quite a bit older than he is! He said the cylinder block is the same, but the air intake holes on the MPFI head do not work with the SPFI intake manifold (the intake holes are different shapes). There is also the issue of a hole for the MPFI injector that would be a real bother for an SPFI engine to run.

 

You can, however, swap the heads out as the blocks are the same, and use the SPFI intake manifold. The SPFI computer will then run the engine as if it were SPFI--the only difference is in the heads.

 

THIS IS ASSUMING YOU HAVE A NON-TURBO MPFI MOTOR.

 

In order to put the MPFI motor into the SPFI car and run it as MPFI, though, then you have to rewire, put in a new ECU from an MPFI car, and maybe swap gas lines (due to volume per unit of time issues). There may have been another item if you were to keep the MPFI but it would only have been a minor thing if I did forget it.

 

So yeah, there is the info if anyone else has the same question some time. Thanks again guys, for pointing me to the right questions to present the dealer with, it saved a lot of time (and I also like getting the same answer from more than one source). And if anyone knows the tranny question, let me know! Otherwise I'll try to remember the next time I'm at the dealer with a knowledgeable tech.

[GeneralDisorder]

I have more information (talked to a dealer tech), and also a question. Question first, info in a moment.

 

1. Question: I found a running tbi motor I can pull for $200 or so, but it is in an automatic. Am I correct in assuming I can put a motor from an automatic in my 5-speed? (Aside from swapping a flywheel/clutch/pressure plate into where the flexplate was?)

 

I forgot to ask the dealer tech about this while I was there.

 

That's correct - just swap over the flywheel and you are good to go.

 

2. Regarding MPFI into an SPFI: the tech I spoke with seemed very knowledgeable about the EA82. I was impressed, considering the EA82 is probably quite a bit older than he is! He said the cylinder block is the same, but the air intake holes on the MPFI head do not work with the SPFI intake manifold (the intake holes are different shapes). There is also the issue of a hole for the MPFI injector that would be a real bother for an SPFI engine to run.

 

You can, however, swap the heads out as the blocks are the same, and use the SPFI intake manifold. The SPFI computer will then run the engine as if it were SPFI--the only difference is in the heads.

 

THIS IS ASSUMING YOU HAVE A NON-TURBO MPFI MOTOR.

 

In order to put the MPFI motor into the SPFI car and run it as MPFI, though, then you have to rewire, put in a new ECU from an MPFI car, and maybe swap gas lines (due to volume per unit of time issues). There may have been another item if you were to keep the MPFI but it would only have been a minor thing if I did forget it.

 

So yeah, there is the info if anyone else has the same question some time. Thanks again guys, for pointing me to the right questions to present the dealer with, it saved a lot of time (and I also like getting the same answer from more than one source). And if anyone knows the tranny question, let me know! Otherwise I'll try to remember the next time I'm at the dealer with a knowledgeable tech.

 

Yeah we pretty well knew all that but thanks for putting it in here so people can find it in the search.

 

GD

[WoodsWagon]

I

You can, however, swap the heads out as the blocks are the same, and use the SPFI intake manifold. The SPFI computer will then run the engine as if it were SPFI--the only difference is in the heads.

 

In order to put the MPFI motor into the SPFI car and run it as MPFI, though, then you have to rewire, put in a new ECU from an MPFI car, and maybe swap gas lines (due to volume per unit of time issues). There may have been another item if you were to keep the MPFI but it would only have been a minor thing if I did forget it.

 

The shortblock is the same, pistons may be different depending on what comp ratio they wanted. But by the time you're finished swapping heads and all that you might as well have rebuilt the motor you've got for cheaper.

 

The rewiring and putting in the MPFI ECU is exactly what I was talking about when I said it would be the same amount of work to swap and EJ22 in. And the EJ motors are exponentially better than the EA82 ever could be.

[man on the moon]

That's correct - just swap over the flywheel and you are good to go.

 

Awesome. This is what I gathered from other sources, but only by implication. Nice to have that suspicion confirmed.

 

 

 

Yeah we pretty well knew all that but thanks for putting it in here so people can find it in the search.

 

GD

 

Yeah, yeah . I know you guys know a lot, if not everything, which is why I asked. No, in all reality, the answers helped me form questions to approach the dealer with--and his (well, the tech's) answers verified yours. I wrote it out so it is all in one place for the next guy in my shoes.

 

{snip}...pistons may be different depending on what comp ratio they wanted. But by the time you're finished swapping heads and all that you might as well have rebuilt the motor you've got for cheaper.

 

The rewiring and putting in the MPFI ECU is exactly what I was talking about when I said it would be the same amount of work to swap and EJ22 in. And the EJ motors are exponentially better than the EA82 ever could be.

 

Your response is one of the questions I asked for verification on, actually . You are dead on w/the wiring. Regarding the pistons--if the block is a turbo block there is almost certainly a difference. If it is not a turbo block...not sure. I didn't ask about that. Between you guys and the tech, though, I decided to stick it out a few days and wait for an SPFI to come along.

 

I'll do the EJ later, right now I just need the car to run; and since I only have street parking at the moment I need the job to be fast and dirty.

[eulogious]

And if anyone knows the tranny question, let me know! Otherwise I'll try to remember the next time I'm at the dealer with a knowledgeable tech.

 

I believe you either have to ground a pin or unground a pin on the ecu, but that's all, if you even have to do that. The ECU and TCU are pretty primitive in the EA82's, so there is hardly any "talking" between the two. All the ECU needs to know is if you have an auto or manual, and that is decided by grounding/ungrounding a pin. I will look into my notes here and see if I can find the actual pin you need...

 

Other than the pin (which you may not even need), I think that is it...