EA82 noisy lifter question.

[Cup O Noodles]

It have an '87 GL with a noisy lifter. I've read all the related threads I could find and I tried one of the suggestions which was to change the oil and put in some degunkifier. I drove the car for a week and the noise persists but the thread said I might have to do that a few times.

 

If that doesn't work I'll replace the lifters. My problem is that the last time I changed a head gasket, on another EA82, one of the lifters was stuck and I don't want to destroy my head. Is there a good way to remove a stuck lifter without damaging the head or breaking the lifter off?

 

Thanks.

[MTSuby]

Don't know about replacing the lifter, but it seems like most of the discussion I've seen about noisy lifters talks more about your oil pump, seal, and cam seals.

 

I have lifter noise that comes & goes, and occasional TOD right when I first start the car. It's due for timing belts anyways, so I'm going to do the belts, oil pump water pump cam seals and all that. I'll see if it helps my lifter noise..

[Cup O Noodles]

Yeah, I should probably replace all that stuff but the lifter noise is constant so I'll probably still have to deal with it, too. Thanks.

[GeneralDisorder]

You should run it for a couple oil changes with one quart of ATF or Rislone in the oil to loosen up the lifters in their buckets. You might still have to pry them out, etc. That happens sometimes.

 

Some people have good luck with doing a reseal and a new oil pump, but I've found that generally if the lifters have been ticking for a while the only permanent solution is to replace them. Ticking = wear, and ticking accelerates the wear that's already there. If you catch the bad seals/pump in time you may be able to effect a lasting change, but when allowed to tick for long periods before anything is done then the damage to the lifters is too great.

 

GD

[Cup O Noodles]

Awesome, thanks.

[Cup O Noodles]

I've done two oil changes now and ran the car for a week for each. As soon as I started the car on the second oil change the noise from the lifter was gone. I'm pretty sure I've heard it come back since but only briefly and not very often.

 

I called a place about getting some lifters ordered but he suggested that I replace the seal, gasket, and o-ring on the oil pump first. I'm going to do that but I'd like to replace the lifters anyway.

 

Does it sound like a waste of time and money to replace lifters that are quiet now? I haven't run the car more than a few hundred miles but they were like that when I bought it, so who knows?

 

Evidently, the engine is a 1.6. I always thought it was a 1.8 because the engine family is HRJ1.8blablabla. I figured it out when I replaced the cap and rotor. Also the 1 and 4 plug wires were switched, though I couldn't tell the difference.

 

Maybe it's because it's a 1.6 and not a 1.8 but it seems like it's a really weak vehicle. It takes forever to get up to highway speeds and if I give it too much throttle it backfires. I bet I need to replace that lifter, it probably isn't doing its job.

 

So, I've never taken apart an engine before. I replaced the head gaskets on an EA82 before but that's pretty easy. Putting all the hoses back where they go is a pain but it doesn't require a great deal of mechanical knowledge. I'd like to gain experience and have been fantasizing about rebuilding the engine but I'm afraid that reassembling everything inside the crank case might be beyond my ability.

 

I have the Haynes manual, a socket set, and a torque wrench. I suspect that if I remove the heads (not that they weigh much) I can pull the motor from the bell housing without injuring myself. Am I going to be able to put this engine back together, though?

 

-Thanks!

[GeneralDisorder]

There were no 1.6L EA82's made. The EA82 is, by definition, a 1.8L engine. The only EA series 1.6L is the EA71 and you clearly don't have one of those being that you have a lifter ticking and you say it's an '87 GL. The only 1.6's in '87 would be on the STD hatchback models and those are likely solid lifter engines.

 

The crank case does not need to be touched to do the lifters. If you have done an EA82 head gasket before then you have already done this job. The lifters are on the outside of the heads. You don't even have to remove the heads - only the cam towers.

 

You should definitely replace the lifters. "Mizpah" is the place that most people get them as they are cheap. Do a google on it. Reseal everything as well. Even though it's not ticking now - it's going to come back. The only sure way to be rid of it for a good long time is to replace the lifters and seals.

 

GD

Edited August 21, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[Cup O Noodles]

I might try to argue that a previous owner had switched engines but I looked for the EA82 stamp before I bought it.

 

I appreciate the help a lot, but what do you think about rebuilding the engine just for the experience?

[GeneralDisorder]

I appreciate the help a lot, but what do you think about rebuilding the engine just for the experience?

 

It's a complete waste of time on that engine. If you are going to rebuild something then rebuild an EJ engine. The EA82 is a dead platform. I suppose as a learning tool it has some merit but it's basically just a frustrating, lifter ticking, timing belt breaking, head gakset blowing, low HP boat anchor IMO.

 

If it runs fine now other than lifter ticking you likely won't find much *to* rebuild in it. The bottom end is frustratingly reliable (because it was the only part inherited from the venerable EA81) while the rest of the motor sucks donkey shlong.

 

If you really want a neat upgrade - convert it to an EJ engine (adaptor plate, flywheel mods, and wireing) and then put in an EJ frankenmotor (2.5 block w/2.2 heads). It's a kick in the pants.

 

GD

Edited August 21, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[idosubaru]

can you verify the motor, post a picture?

 

+1 on a full rebuild being a waste of time on this motor. ends up being costly to do it right too.

 

if you still wanted to, it would strictly be for fun or a learning experience. in that case i would suggest just find a blown EJ motor and rebuild it so you have something that's worth something when you're done and newer components/technology. they're actually worth somethign when you're done and easy to find a blown EJ25 too.

 

as to replacing the HLA ("lifter), i wouldn't do that either. just leave it. keep changing your oil and add a quart of ATF. i've had them go away and be fine completely over time. remember to change oil frequently, it could easily dirty quickly if the previous owner neglected it (often the case with cheap old subarus). it's not going to hurt anything, so again it's just a waste of time unless you're really that bored and have nothing to do. if over time it gets worse then revisit the idea later.

 

learn to enjoy this car for the one thing it can do - reliably rack up the miles. as much as GD hates them the EA non-turbo's will run forever if you just keep slapping timing belts on them and don't run them out of oil or coolant. the headgaskets dont blow unless they overheat.

 

if you have running issues it's probably not the engine - it's probably the carb but your comments are leaving me a little confused about what you have. i would test it before determing to rebuild the engine because of a backfire.

Edited August 22, 2010 by grossgary

[Cup O Noodles]

Thanks both of you.

 

I bothered to confirm that the engine is 1.8 via the vin number, assuming it's the original engine and I don't have any reason to believe it isn't.

 

I'll get some pics tomorrow, or tonight if I get out there soon enough.

 

So if I get an EJ engine do I need to worry about which one?

 

I found an EJ25 on Craigslist for 100$ but it says it may have valve damage(?) on one of the cylinders. Also, you mentioned adapter plates, flywheel mods, and wiring. Are those exactly what I would ask for...can I get those at a pick-a-part? Can I use the same carb and intake manifold?

 

A 2.5 block with 2.2 heads is that better than using 2.5 heads?

 

Thanks a lot.

[GeneralDisorder]

Thanks both of you.

 

I bothered to confirm that the engine is 1.8 via the vin number, assuming it's the original engine and I don't have any reason to believe it isn't.

 

I'll get some pics tomorrow, or tonight if I get out there soon enough.

 

No need for pics. We know exactly what it is. I've seen hundreds of them. You needn't confirm what we say either. Trust me - we know exactly what you have.

 

So if I get an EJ engine do I need to worry about which one?

 

Yes. You should read up on the swaps over in the retro-fitting forum, etc

 

I found an EJ25 on Craigslist for 100$ but it says it may have valve damage(?) on one of the cylinders. Also, you mentioned adapter plates, flywheel mods, and wiring. Are those exactly what I would ask for...can I get those at a pick-a-part? Can I use the same carb and intake manifold?

 

No - none of this is off-the-shelf or aquireable from a yard. The adaptor plates are sold by a few people or can be fabricated if you are into that sort of thing. Same with the modified flywheel. The wireing is the biggest challenge for most people - you have to go to a yard (or buy a donor car) and strip the harness out of it - then rewire your car using the fuel/ignition control system for the EJ. You use the whole EJ engine - they are MPFI, not carbed. And no the manifolds are completely incompatible. Read the swap threads in the other forum I mentioned - they deal with all this.

 

A 2.5 block with 2.2 heads is that better than using 2.5 heads?

 

That's a complicated question. It's actually a "2.2 with a 2.5 short block" since you use everything off the 2.2 - just not it's actual block. This gives a high compression ratio and a large performance boost. They are somewhere around 180 to 200 HP or a little more. This is a HUGE increase over your 85 HP engine.

 

GD

[idosubaru]

The $100 EJ25 engine is a great deal if it's just a broken timing belt. They bend valves, nothing more..well i'm sure someone could find a way.... So it just needs a head job basically, not that big of a deal. Be sure to read up on the Ej specific issues on here if you want to repair it, we'll walk you through.

 

But it's not a straight swap into your older gen soob as GD outlined.

[GeneralDisorder]

The $100 EJ25 engine is a great deal if it's just a broken timing belt. They bend valves, nothing more...

 

Sweeeet deal if you are putting 2.2 heads on it anyway

 

GD

[idosubaru]

This gives a high compression ratio and a large performance boost. They are somewhere around 180 to 200 HP or a little more.

really? EJ25 block with EJ22 heads is that high? wow. what's the down side - higher octane gas and piston to valve interference? i have a few EJ's lying around, i need to know this.

[GeneralDisorder]

The place to ask is over on NASIOC - there's a whole thread about it. Basically it's the high compression that does it. And yes - you want to run the highest octane you can so the computer doesn't pull all your timeing (knock control is obviously a must and thankfully Subaru was kind enough to include that on the non-turbo EJ's). We took the oppotunity to install torque ground Delta cams at the same time since we had the heads completely gone through, etc. The EJ25D block has peekaboo pistons (they crest over the deck) and with the smaller combustion chambers of the 22 heads..... the comp. ratio is very likely around 11:1 or more. We did use the thicker EJ25D gaskets rather than the thinner EJ20 gaskets that some have used with the EJ253 blocks and this combination. But it runs fine and there's no obvious signs that I could see if pinging or other problems.

 

I would have to assume that the pistons and valves would interfere with each other on this combo should the belt break .... but really that's not much of a concern since EJ belts so infrequently fail. No issues so far - I took it to 7000 a couple times and it didn't even flinch. I chirped the tires coaxing the 5 speed D/R into 3rd on accident

 

renob123 and I put one in his Brat. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were the 205 HP that some people claim on dyno runs of these. It's a really stupid machine at this point. In no way is it capable of handling the power..... but it's a lot of fun to try .

 

This new engine in the Brat is nearly as big of a change as going from the EA81 to the EJ22 we put in earlier in the year. That engine ended up being a high-mileage smoke generator so we pulled it in favor of the Frankenmotor. The difference between 80 HP and 135 HP was quite noticeable and this change (I'm guessing from 135 to 180ish) was similarly amazing.

 

GD

Edited August 22, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[idosubaru]

i've seen folks talking about it, but never saw folks mention numbers, so i was surprised to see them that high. nice.

[Cup O Noodles]

That's a complicated question. It's actually a "2.2 with a 2.5 short block" since you use everything off the 2.2 - just not it's actual block. This gives a high compression ratio and a large performance boost. They are somewhere around 180 to 200 HP or a little more. This is a HUGE increase over your 85 HP engine.

 

GD

 

I have found an EJ22 motor for 150$ and an EJ25 motor for 100$ both on Craigslist. How do I tell if the 2.5 is a short block? And if it isn't, will putting it in a 2.2 be a waste of time?

 

I've read all the threads I could find that were relevant to an EJ swap, mostly about the adapter plate, though. If I understand correctly the adapter plate will allow the EJ engine to, more or less, bolt right to the EA tranny but that instance was with a 2.2 block. Will the 2.5 block be any different?

[idosubaru]

if you buy an EJ25 it'll surely be the short block. just make sure it's good.

 

short block means an engine without heads.

long block is a complete engine with heads, valve train, etc.

 

short block just means to use the EJ25 with EJ22 heads.

 

EJ25 with EJ22 heads is saying the same thing as EJ25 short block with EJ22 heads.

 

clear as mud?

[Cup O Noodles]

Oh! That's awesome, thanks.

 

Thanks for the offer to walk me through the EJ swap, too. It will be very much appreciated when the time comes.

 

The adapter plate needs to be 1/2" aluminum. Does it matter what grade?

 

The EJ25 I found on Craigslist was 100$. Is that still a good deal if all I need is the short block? Or is that exactly what you were saying, GD?

 

Also, I thought of something that might be a dumb idea. If I buy the 2.2 and the 2.5 engines and use the 2.5 short block for my EJ swap I'll have a 2.2 short block and the rest of the 2.5 engine left over. What if I put those together? Is that a workable combination?

 

Thanks.

[Cup O Noodles]

Oh hey! Is there anything I should look out for when buying these engines?