Replacing Head Gasket/Timing Belt '97 Legacy GT

[86GLScooby]

I've been researching the head gasket job on my '97 Legacy GT for a few weeks now and I feel like I would like to do it myself since I don't have the money to have it repaired. I asked 1stsubaruparts.com the following:

 

Hi, I'm doing a head gasket replacement on my '97 subaru legacy GT and so I'm buying the head gasket set, not fully knowing what all is included (if you have a parts list please email it to me). Do I need to get the valve cover seals? left and right? Anything else I'm missing?

 

The reason for this email: I can't seem to find the Spark plug hole gaskets on the website, please email me the part number. I appreciate your help. Regards, Kevin Creedy.

 

They responded with the following: (I added the notes indicating what they are with amounts needed)

 

11044AA610 :GSKT CYLINDER HEAD E110 - Head Gaskets (2)

Part interchanges with part# 11044AA471

11051AA070 :PLUG CYLINDER HEAD 101 - Half Moon Gaskets (4) ?

13270AA062 :GASKET ROCKER COVER E118 - Valve Cover Gasket (1)

Part interchanges with part# 13270AA061

13272AA063 :GSKT ROCKER COVER E118 - Valve Cover Gasket (1)

13293AA051 :GSKT ROCKER COVER NO 2 105 - Spark Plug Well Gasket (4)

Part interchanges with part# 13293AA040

13271AA051 :WASH ROCKER CVR 105 - Washers/Gaskets for Valve Cover Bolts (12)

Part interchanges with part# 13271AA050

14035AA281 :GSKT INTAKE MANIFOLD 105 - Intake Manifold Gasket (2)

44011AC030 :GASKET 112 - Exhaust Gastet (2)

 

Now since the first item on there is the head gasket, it can either be the parts list in the overhaul set or these are the items I need. I'm not that familiar with the engine and don't know how many of each I would need on some of the items.

 

Any help would be appreciated. What are the parts I need to do the job? Money is tight and I know I'll come across an item I'll have to replace, but is there such a thing as a bear minimum job on this? Thank you.

Edited September 7, 2010 by 86GLScooby
Added notes to parts list, checking to see if it's correct

[idosubaru]

good job getting subaru only headgaskets on this motor. you don't want aftermarket for those.

 

bare minimum on this job would be head gaskets and intake manifold gaskets.

 

the main reason you can ignore the rest is that you can go back and do them later, so it's not that big of a deal. they are kind of a pain to get to again though, except the exhaust gaskets are easy.

 

Subaru exhaust gaskets are robust and typically can be reused. though being 10+ years old there's a good chance yours won't too. they are easy enough to ignore now and replace later if you're the tight.

 

the valve/rocker gaskets really should be replaced though. at 10+ years old the rubber probably isn't in great shape and the motor has probably been run hot since it needs headgasket and that's always the first symptom on this year/model. reusing the valve cover/rock gaskets (of which there are 3 per side) is not a good idea. but....you could always do those later after the job is done, that's not impossible if you really need to do this cheap.

[86GLScooby]

Thanks for the reply...

 

I'm doing a timing belt and water pump change (gates belt kit and bosch waterpump - $191 w/ free shipping). I don't mind spending $150 more and I was thinking of doing the following:

 

Head gaskets (2)

Valve cover gaskets (1 large and 2 small on each side correct?)

Intake manifold gaskets (2, but has 2 on each one really)

Exhaust gaskets (2)

Camshaft oil seals (4)

Crank shaft oil seal (1) + tighten bolts on oil pump

Check valve shim clearances just to be on the safe side and replace upon inspection - perhaps

Timing belt with new pullies, idlers, tentioner

Water pump with gasket

Test thermostat

 

I'm sure I'm missing something - anything you can add that's cheap enough to do?

 

One more thing that is confusing, in the haynes manual it doesn't mention much about special tools for doing the timing belt chage... doesn't seem right. If you line up the timing marks, do you not need the specialty tool (or use precaution) on the driver side camshaft gears? Excuse my lack of knowing exactly what to call all the parts. But those have tention and will spin and cause damage when the belt is taken off correct?

 

Thanks, Kevin

[idosubaru]

oh okay, yeah you're doing the right thing replacing all that stuff while you're in there. exactly what i normally do. that's a great way to get another reliable 105,000 miles until the next timing belt change.

 

i'd add three parts to your list. oil pump oring, Subaru water pump gasket, and anaerobic sealant. the aftermarket water pump gaskets are flimsy cardboard junk and anaerobic sealant is what Subaru uses, normal sealant clogs oil passages when it squishes and comes loose internally. last EJ25 i tore apart this summer had RTV all up in the oil sump pick up screen. probably didn't matter, it got stopped, but not worth the risk to me.

 

no special tools required. remove the timing belt with all the marks lined up. the upper drivers side is the one prone to snap. it snaps to a benign position, so no worries, just move it back. not hard to devise something to hold it in place either - a clamp holding the upper to the lower one, etc.

 

but i have installed them without any holders before too - from memory i think that's easier on a timing belt job than head gasket as i think they're more prone to snap after a HG job.

 

do not plan on reshimming to be easy or quick, that's a total pain.

[86GLScooby]

Thanks, I feel more and more confident doing this job. I'll add an oil pump o-ring and a water pump gasket to the list, as well as the sealant. Also I forgot to mention that I'll get the heads checked and surfaced if needed. Can they check for cracks too? Just wondering, I don't expect the heads to be cracked, but who knows? That would blow...

 

I read it's a good idea to flush the radiator... can I just run water through it for a couple hours or something?

 

Where's the best place to order from? Anyone give deals to USMB members that's better than the already well priced 1stsubaruparts.com?

 

Thanks again and I'll post again when I'm doing the job...

[Olnick]

Check prices with Jason (Parts Manager at Mike Scarff Subaru in Auburn WA) 866-528-5282. Nice guy and he's always had the best prices I could find.

[idosubaru]

whatever online vendors are recommend here are the best pricing wise, no specials or anything outside of that. one of them occasionally sends me coupons around holidays it seems. labor day is coming

 

they can pressure test the heads for cracks ($40-$60 each side). some subaru heads i always have pressure tested, but i never get EJ25's pressure tested because it's so rare for them to crack. i've never seen them crack nor heard of it on here either. my time is very valuable so i'm not interested in doing anything twice either, i usually err on the side of caution but these are really low risk. some subaru dealers don't even resurface the heads.

 

heads won't be cracked unless it was beat. timing covers, knock sensor, and other plastics would be melted severely if it was beat enough to crack heads.

 

they sell radiator cleaner solutions or a radiator shop can clean them. deposits build up and get crusted in there, exacerbated by the overheating - kind of like a distiller boiling off water and leaving the caked on residue. i've ran water through a couple clogged radiators and it hasn't helped at all, you'd be lucky if it did i think. you can always just see if it runs hot or not and replace the rad later.

 

you can buy radiators for only like $80-$90 for these things shipped to your door - like radiatorbarn.com and stuff, so they're not expensive and easy to replace.

 

the anaerobic sealant is a two part sealant - a tube of red sealant and a bottle of applicator spray used in conjunction with it. it's not designed to dry like normal sealant. it's expensive, like $20 - $25 but it's worth it for what it's used for to me.

Edited August 22, 2010 by grossgary

[86GLScooby]

Thank you so much for your replies

[86GLScooby]

Hi,

So far so good... I got all the parts in late last week and already have some more to pick up after starting the work today. Had a hard time with hose clamps and rusted bolts and a hose that wouldn't come off. This was to be expected... At the moment I have it ready to take on getting the crank pulley off in the morning.

 

Question: This is an automatic transmission, do I keep the car in park while doing this job? Timing belt and head gaskets.

 

Thanks.

Edited September 7, 2010 by 86GLScooby

[johnceggleston]

Question: This is an automatic transmission, do I keep the car in park while doing this job? Timing belt and head gaskets.

 

Thanks.

 

you will need it in N in order to turn the engine over so you can reach all 4 torque converter bolts. be careful that the car is secure and well blocked before you put it in N. you don't want it moving. the car should be on jack stands.

 

i have found that the job is easier with the left front wheel removed so you can get to the lower trans to engine bolt on that side.

 

be safe.

Edited September 7, 2010 by johnceggleston

[86GLScooby]

What a struggle to get the crank shaft bolt off... wow. I have it to the point where I can rotate the crank shaft to line up the timing marks and it seems like the driver side is off by a tooth. The belt is allmost half way off the bottom pullies and the middle cover shows it with a line burt out where the belt ran into the cover. I'll try to take some pictures, but from an amatuer prospective, this looks bad... good timing to do this job. lol

 

I'm trying to find the TDC for # 1 and the pressure gauge is showing pressure each time around... maybe I'm doing something wrong. I don't have the specialty tools, but can make what is needed. Any advice would be appreciated. I read on another post that once you find the TDC you can rotate the crank 15 degrees and the driver's side won't be loaded and no tools are needed. Just take off the belt... can anyone confirm this?

 

Figured out how to post the pics... I'm really embarresed to post these by the way

Thanks.

Edited September 7, 2010 by 86GLScooby

[86GLScooby]

Ha ha, I've been following the guide to replace the timing belt and now that I switch over to the head gasket guide it tells me to relieve the fuel pressure... now that I can't start the car as is. Should I get it back to a point where I can do that or just continue? That's unfortunate, I should have studied the procedure a little better.

[johnceggleston]

first of all, you are NOT looking for top dead center.

you want to put the crank timing mark at the 12 oclock position, the keyway for the crank pulley will be straight down, in the 6 oclock position.

 

if your current timing is correct, this will put your cam sprockets in the correct position, hash marks at the 12 oclock position.

 

i have links in my signature below for an article about changing the timing belt and a series of pics for a single cam engine. read up on the procedure. using the wrong timing marks will DAMAGE your engine / valves.

 

PS: you cannot see the crank timing mark with the pulley installed.

[porcupine73]

If you are even a tooth off that can be enough to make it not start.

 

Those oil leaks like cam seals and such really need to be addressed, since it's already getting oil on your new belt which wil shorten its life. Those idlers look like they've seen better days too, many times the idlers, esp that geared/toothed one don't make it to 200k miles.

 

I'm assuming you were not turning the crank before you had the new belt on and lined up? If it hit any valves while you were turning it manually it would have stopped.

[86GLScooby]

No, that's the old belt and idlers... I have new ones to replace those. They look terrible don't they. I'll make sure to get everything cleaned up before I install the new belt and not let any oil touch the new one. Since you guys didn't comment on the belt being almost half way off the idler I guess that is okay. I hope the new one stays in place though.

 

The car is in time, I drove it yesterday to move it over to the work area.., but with the timing marks lined up on the passenger side it seems to be off one tooth on the driver's side. Should I remark that location for when I put it back on or should I put it on the original marks? Not sure why it's not lined up. The belt has been taken off one other time that I know of, by subaru to do something to the oil pump. I'll take some pics of it in the morning.

 

I appreciate your input... thx

Edited September 8, 2010 by 86GLScooby

[86GLScooby]

Took some pics this morning... would appreciate some comments. I'll mark it as it is but would like advise at to what to line up when reinstalling. Thanks.

 

Cams lined up on right side...

 

Seems to be a tooth off on left side...

[86GLScooby]

first of all, you are NOT looking for top dead center.

you want to put the crank timing mark at the 12 oclock position, the keyway for the crank pulley will be straight down, in the 6 oclock position.

 

if your current timing is correct, this will put your cam sprockets in the correct position, hash marks at the 12 oclock position.

 

QUOTE]

 

Thanks, I did this and will update later... on another note, I don't seem to be able to see your signiture, perhaps a setting in the forum. I would like to take a look at what you mentioned.

[Olnick]

Here's a link to the Endwrench article johnc referenced:

http://endwrench.com/pdf/engine/FtTimingBeltReplaceF00.pdf

 

Hope this helps.

[86GLScooby]

Got to the valves today and tested them with a feeler gauge, they seemed pretty good and since I'm running out of money I plan on leaving them as they are. Exhaust ones are the ones to look out for I read and they seem good as they are. Unless I'm testing them wrong, do you go up in gauge size untill it doesn't slide freely? Perhaps with a little resistance?

 

Pulled my thermostat and did the boiling test... it popped right open some time before boiling temp was reached, I turned off the stove before it started to boil. How do you know if it's all the way open, mine was just under a 1/4" open?

 

I'm battling with one of the studs under the heads... those are really rusted and all of them turned out of the heads. I soaked them periodically with PB Blaster for 3 days and no budge. This car was originally up north somewhere, so no wander...

 

I have to order some more parts, the studs, thermostat seal and one of the hoses that came of the radiator for the ATF. Hopefully my local guy can get it within the week otherwize it's a 5 day ship from 1stsubaru.com. Is there any precuations I need to take when I leave this job for 3 -5 days? Wrap the block with plastic to keep it clean or something? Nothing will dry up in there and cause problems?

 

By the way, it was the waterpump that gave out on the car... it rotates the opposite way that it needs to, but gets stuck the right way.

 

Thanks and I appologize for my noob questions... can't wait to finish this up, but all in good time.