EA82 hi/lo 4:11 tranny guide: GUIDE IS SOLD donations not needed

[BeefaRu]

UPDATE: There was an offer to buy the guide vs wait for donations and release it for free to everyone who didn't donate. Sorry folks, but there's people who waited for four years and don't want to wait any longer. I don't blame them, that's why I footed the bill to get the info myself.

 

This is an offshoot of the "denver mad scientists transmission lab" thread.

 

Long story short, at considerable cost (transmission removal/tear-down/consultation) I've learned how to duplicate my EA82 4:11 hi/lo transmission. There's been a lot of forum interest in building one of these, but we didn't know how mine was done.

 

Now I know how it was done and I'd like to assemble a list of people interested in donating toward a how-to guide for building this most excellent EA82 4:11 hi/lo transmission.

 

Why donations? To be honest, I'll be broke once my car goes back together, and I have to give up income generating activity in order to create a guide to duplicating my transmission.

 

How much to donate?

 

$40 seems fair given the time/expense.

However, just PM me what you want to donate whether it's more or less than $40. That way everyone can anonymously contribute what they can afford.

 

Here are some more specifics on the the transmission:

• I've driven it 230,000 miles, and it had around 60,000 original miles. It's still in great shape.
  
• It's a full-time 4WD hi/lo EA82 transmission
  
• The 3:9 transmission has been dropped to 4:11
  
• It's possible to drop it to 4:44
  
• The orig hi/low was swapped for a better ratio hi/lo
  
• Going to 4:11 or 4:44 requires going to a legacy center diff (no more locking center diff)
  
• Hi/lo is fitted with vacuum activation (shifter red button activates hi/lo)
  
• 5th gear was swapped for taller 5th (3,000 rpm @ 68-70mph with 15inch 65/185 tires VS orig 5th gear 3,000rpm @ 58-60mph)
  

 

Of course, the taller/bigger your tires, the more you need this kind of gearing. Because it's possible to drop to 4:44, this could be really cool for off-road.

 

Another thought: there's an australian company that makes custom EA82 hi/lo gears. We're talking huge reduction. It would take a significant order to make it worth buying, but those custom hi/lo combined with the drop to 4:11 or 4:44 would make it possible to have subarus with amazing crawling gears.

Edited September 8, 2010 by BeefaRu

[Scott in Bellingham]

Another thought: there's an australian company that makes custom EA82 hi/lo gears. We're talking huge reduction. It would take a significant order to make it worth buying, but those custom hi/lo combined with the drop to 4:11 or 4:44 would make it possible to have subarus with amazing crawling gears.

 

what is this company I would like a set

what is the reduction on these lowwer hi/low gears how much Money do we need?

[BeefaRu]

what is this company I would like a set

what is the reduction on these lowwer hi/low gears how much Money do we need?

 

I need to start googling. I think the guy who designed my tranny can dig up the info. Sure would be nice.

[BeefaRu]

what is this company I would like a set

what is the reduction on these lowwer hi/low gears how much Money do we need?

I think this might be the one http://www.albinsgear.com.au/ I emailed them earlier today. If they are, I doubt it's something we could afford; they seem very high end, but I'll let you know what they say.

[monstaru]

you mean theses?:grin:cheers, me

 

 

http://scorpionsubaru.com/low.htm

 

and they are not any lower than our d/r gears...........they are designed for the ej dual range boxes.

Edited September 1, 2010 by monstaru

[BeefaRu]

Thanks for the link to that hi/lo outfit. Looks like 1.58 is lowest they go. Maybe they're not the company I was told about.

 

I phrased it that way for a couple of reasons. I just don't want to be the only one [$100 donation] footing this. I know money is tight people, but even $10 or $20 here and there would show Beefy we're serious. If he comes up with a general figure, and we get some guys to put up their money, I'm in. I just don't want to fork over the money, have no one else jump in, then end up with my money back, no write up and no trans. The no trans part would be very disappointing for me. I think this is a great idea and I would be willing to build these for people who wouldn't be able to do it themselves. I think Beefy was right, start a thread with a sticky for donations....

 

What skishop said. It's a cool tranny the most versatile/affordable/durable one I've ever owned.

 

Shishop has offered to build them, the old-school guys in denver could build one. Pretty much anyone with the gear to pull and work a transmission can do this.

Edited September 8, 2010 by BeefaRu

[eulogious]

This is a really cool idea, even if I don't have a manual or want of for that matter. But, if I had some money I would throw down towards this just to have the guide. It would be well worth it. If I do happen to have any money kicking around, I will send it your way. Good luck man!

[BeefaRu]

deleted

Edited September 8, 2010 by BeefaRu

[baccaruda]

What kind of city & highway mileage did you get?

[Subarutex]

So... why is the transmission out?

[BeefaRu]

What kind of city & highway mileage did you get?

I've been getting around 22 city and around 24-26 highway since putting the big thule carrier on top in 2005.

[BeefaRu]

So... why is the transmission out?

After 230k miles the two conical washers that act as spacers/bearings for the center diff wore out. So every now and then the diff gears would slip far enough to skip a tooth and then catch. It was a sound that the mechanic who pulled the tranny described as "horrific" But the diff gears looked fine as did the rest of the tranny.

 

Another thing also happened, which without the center diff problem I never would have known. The two bolts that hold a fluid dripper, which drips fluid onto 5th gear, backed completely out. We found one of them -- LOL.

 

Despite these things, all the gears in the tranny and the diff looked fine. No chipped corners, no suspicious wear, no damaged mesh gears or syncros, which is surprising given that the conical washers were nearly ground to dust and one bolt was nowhere to be found.

 

I have some decent resolution closeups of the gears that I can put into the how-to guide. They look pretty darn good given all the miles. One thing I did about 100k ago is I began running BG Syncroshift II. It's expensive, but there's no doubt it's made a difference.

[doobieryan]

How much money do you estimate you will need to put together the manual?

[BeefaRu]

How much money do you estimate you will need to put together the manual?

$250 minimum to release this info to everyone on the forum.

 

I'm already at $450 on just the tranny work, not including tranny removal/install, clutch, sealing the steering rack, exhaust work,......sigh....) On top of being broke from this, I have to give up income to write the guide, which is why I was hoping for donations.

 

Problem is, only 2 forum members have offered to donate. No one is bothering to PM offers despite that ANY offer for ANY dollar amount is fine.

 

Long story short, I'm at a solid $20 to offset $400 in expenses to get the info and time to write the guide.

 

I'm an "everyone wins" kind of guy, so that's my first choice. But if only two people want to build this tranny, and one is very interested in making an exclusive arrangement then I'll make arrangements with them.

Edited September 8, 2010 by BeefaRu

[Numbchux]

I hope this doesn't sound rude....but was this really that much of a mystery? I put 4.111 gears in my XT6 case. pretty sure I have all the parts to do a 1.19:1 low 4.111 D/R at my house right now. all I'd need is 1.59:1 gears and a modded 4.111 ring gear and I'd be set.

[impoutback 97]

whats the cost range of building such a beast? After the $40 buck surcharge.

[eulogious]

Ok, so I have been thinking about this for a while and have come to a couple of conclusions on this whole thing.

 

One of the biggest reasons I think you are going to have problems getting "donations" from people because this a free internet site, and people already donate to the USMB to get this type of info, so why pay for it twice? The way that I "pay" someone for something that I have learned from the forum or did because of the forum is I post topics that help people, and also help answer other people's questions. I don't ask them to donate via PP before I will help them... Seems a little tacky the more I think about it. I mean my paddle shifter build thread took me almost 4 months to research, do, and then write up, and my employer pays me at over $30/hour, so my time ain't free, but I posted it up for free to contribute back to the community for all the help that I have gotten from it already, and for all the help I will get in the future. It took alot of my free time to do, but I thought that it was important that I give back for free rather than keep all that info to myself because I feel I should be payed for it

 

Second, we have no idea what this "How-to" is going to entail, or how detailed it is going to get. For $250 I would expect videos, pictures, a very, very detailed written explanations, on top of the FSM scans with every piece of info you know on it. And then probably then some on top of that. Ya, you mentioned that you are a writer, but we still don't know what type of guide we are going to get from you for this price, which makes me a little nervous sending you money.

 

Third, why would this take you so long to do that you can't work AT ALL when writing this? It took me about 3 weeks to write my paddle shifters up in to a how-to because I did it slowly over several nights, so why don't you do that so that the community can benefit from you knowledge, and you won't have to go without employment? It's already been 2 years people have been waiting for this, so I am sure we are willing to wait a little longer for something that will be free.

 

Also it seems like all the leg work is done already. You already know how the trans goes together and works, you mentioned that already, and it seems like you already have pics of the process, so why don't you just throw up a half assed tutorial and then let other fill in the blanks and benefit from all this knowledge if you don't have the time? There are others on this forum that also know this stuff and would probably be able to fill in the blanks. Infact I believe Chux would probably be really good at that, since it seems he has done this, or some thing like this before.

 

I guess to me it seems a little weird that you are asking for money to do something that alot of us already do, which is contribute, and we do it for free while working full time jobs, having families, and living life. Ontop of all of this, it sounds like the hard part is done already, you just need to write it up, and you need to do the work on the trans anyways for yourself to get a trans again, so why not just throw up what you have since you are in there already fixing it AND already have all the knowledge needed to do this? It's not like you taking a good tranny apart and destroying it to make another, you are rebuilding it because you have to, so since you have to do it anyways, you should just throw it up to share with everyone, since you already have to tear into the trans. And it seems you have already done the research, so why do you need to get paid again since you have already done most of the leg work? Again, seems a little tacky to want money for sharing something you have to do anyways and already have all the knowledge needed to do it.

 

The internet is a fantastic place to learn and to share info, all for free, so you might have a hard time getting money for something that should be free. I would love to have this guide for future reference, but if I don't see it my world isn't going to come crashing down on me. Someone else will do it for free eventually, that's just the way it goes. If you have managed to do this, then someone else can as well, it's just a matter of time.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would donate towards this if my wife hadn't lost her job recently and our income took a hit, but I can't right now. And that kinda sucks as I would like to have this info. Times are hard for a lot of people right now, and I understand the need for money, but one of the coolest things about the internet and forums is that most of the info is free and shared freely with everyone. For me, it's cool to know that some good things in life can be free.

 

My .02 after thinking about this anyways...

Edited September 6, 2010 by eulogious

[BeefaRu]

....it sounds like the hard part is done already, you just need to write it up, and you need to do the work on the trans anyways for yourself to get a trans again, so why not just throw up what you have since you are in there already fixing it...

I don't have tools/shop to do this. I paid someone $450 to pull this tranny apart and put it back together and I still have to pay the guy who pulled it to put it back in. This isn't as simple as me investing spare time with zero cost incurred and giving away the fruits of my labor. Forums are great for that, we all participate in that give and take and that's what I love about communities like this.

 

Let's get to the core of the issue here.

I'm going to assume a $5.00 donation towards getting this info isn't the problem.

 

The issue is some see this as one forum member taking advantage of everyone else by asking for a dollar donation instead of a time donation.

 

• I already tried the time donation approach. People can't donate time and work together to figure this out for free for the benefit of all -- it never happened. The thread went on for years without any results.
   
  
• And yet no one has done what some here are asking for -- forum members who've put this or a similar tranny together aren't distributing the information either (writing up a how-to with photo, video etc.)
   
  
• Working together, donating time together to do it for free didn't work.
  
• Asking for dollar donation instead of time donation is another idea and some are for it (thanks to those who have PM'd I'm glad the info has some value).
  

 

I'm not into forum members charging everyone for everything. Far from it. But some projects require enough time and money investment that they're worth contributing to either through bartering time or money. I think this is one of those projects. People don't have to agree and that's OK.

 

That being said, with enough donations, I'm posting this for everyone to download. I really do want this info out there, I just didn't think that I'd be paying so much to get the information.

Edited September 8, 2010 by BeefaRu

[skishop69]

To quote a famous British comedy troupe... "Let's not bicker about who killed who...." I see both sides of this and agree with both sides on certain points. In most cases, all of us are happy to share what we've done and learned here on the site. This particular instance is different in that he did not build the trans himself. He paid to have it built, then again to have it removed and torn down to gain the information. I'd say 260K plus miles states a lot about the build. Beefy is right about the length of time this has been going on. I've followed the original thread and it's really been a disaster as far as people jumping on board with barter, time or money. A lot of people offered, very few came through. The you have the others who have already converted their trans to 411 so why bother. To those I say, Post your How To. Get with Beefy and compare notes. Did you do the same thing? Something different? Is one better than the other. We need to help each other and back each other when possible. If you can donate, great. If you can't, don't. What we don't need is pointless bickering. I'm sure I'm not the only person to notice that posting and visits have been way down in the past year. I am a serious proponent of voicing opinion, but the thread wasn't started to discuss whether or not you should or shouldn't donate. Now I'm so frustrated I've lost my train of thought.

[eulogious]

Wow, I wasn't trying to frustrate anyone here, just stating why there might not be anyone wanting to do this, so just calm down man. This is seriously something that you shouldn't really get that frustrated about. Opinions are opinions, and the internet is full of them

 

I see both sides as well. My point is that he is doing it anyways, so why not post up what he has. That's all. I could see if his trans was working fine and he wanted to pull the good working trans out and tear it down it I could see the need for donation, but that is not the case here. The trans is already coming out, the leg work has/will be done by the end of this, so why not just post it up? That's all. I will never ask for a donation to post up something that I have to do anyways, but apparently that's just me, and I am ok with that. I am not going to chime in anymore.

 

I would donate if I really had the money, and yes $5 means gas getting to work/food for my lunch/dinner for a night right now for me, so I really don't have that. Times are THAT tough for me right now, so don't make it out like $5 is no big deal because to some that is simply not the case

 

Good luck and if I come across some money I will donate just to have the info available.

[BeefaRu]

...I could see if his trans was working fine and he wanted to pull the good working trans out and tear it down it I could see the need for donation, but that is not the case here...

Actually some of that is the case here -- particularly the main case of the tranny.

 

The problem was isolated to the the tailhousing and transfer case, and they came apart in just a few minutes. The main tranny was fine.

 

Most of the transmission labor was to disassemble the main case, take everything out, figure out what was what, replace the seal at the front (which can't be done without taking it all apart), cleaning everything, inspection and reassembly.

 

I could've gotten away with skipping a lot of that, but this was the best opportunity to figure out how the whole thing went together. The photos I took helped the original builder verify what he remembered and jogged his memory on a few other things, so the info is WAY more accurate than just paying minimal shop time for popping off the back of the tranny, fixing, and making a call to get half-remembered parts and assembly information.

 

Still, removal and install of tranny had to be incurred regardless. But taking minimal tranny fix and adding clutch and steering rack wipes me out. Despite that, I thought going the extra mile on the tranny was the right thing to do and the best opportunity to be able to pass that info onto the forum...however, a little help would be nice, and I figured I had nothing to lose by asking.

Edited September 8, 2010 by BeefaRu

[skishop69]

Quote: "Wow, I wasn't trying to frustrate anyone here, just stating why there might not be anyone wanting to do this, so just calm down man"

 

:Flame:Calm down? CALM down?! CALM DOWN?! JK... LOL I didn't mean for it to sound personal. What the gist was is that I was frustrated with the situation in general. I know things are tight for you as we discussed at Scott's. I guess I just don't want this to go off track again after so many years. You know from having worked with me that I possess the skill to do something like this, but I just don't have the time what with work, running my shop on the side and trying to catch up on house projects. Like Beefy said, he's not taking any money until the write up is ready and all donations are anonymous (aside from mine) so no one has to feel obligated to a certain amount.

[Gloyale]

I already did a write up on how to build this trans. For free. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=98796&highlight=dual+range

 

Problem is.......it will eat gears eventually....at least with EJ power through it.

 

Also, there is only one type of early Legacy AWD spd that has the teeth count to match a standard EA 5spd.

 

it's "possible" but not really worth it when it will blow up after a few thousand miles.

[ShawnW]

To me that sounds like you didn't do it the same way that Beefaru's guy did. You came close.

 

Back when I was trying to recreate one I came close as well. But I hit a crossroad where I could either try it, potentially break the trans, need a tow, R+R again, back to the junkyard or dealer to buy replacements, etc.

 

Research and development is very expensive and time consuming.

 

Ill be building these now so when you are ready to take the plunge PM me.

[eulogious]

I won't be taking anyone's money until the how-to is complete, so please stash your $$ for now while offers are still coming in.

 

Ok, so now that you said that I don't got any beef I guess my whole point was since you are doing the work on the trans, do the guide anyways and that seems to be what you are going to do. So that's cool, that's all I was getting at.

 

I also didn't mean to trivialize the work been done to your trans, so sorry if that was how I came across. Alot of work has gone into it, so I apologize if that's how I came across.

 

I also understand that since you are putting the money into this, the information that comes out of it basically yours to do what you please with, and that might include "selling" it to offset your costs. That's your choice, and I don't really have a problem with that. So I get that as well. It's not something that I would do, but you are not me

 

So I will be watching this thread, and if by chance the guides gets done while I have a few bucks in my pocket I will probably send it your way.

 

Good luck man!