Goobysoobs Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 (edited) So my legacy not even an hour after selling my ea82 wagon "backup" car decided to break down i'm pretty sure/hoping its the water pump that I was going to replace tomorrow (was making a rattle noise when I first bought it (see thread: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=115359) but I'll describe what happened anyway, I was coming to a stop at the intersection in neutral and the engine sorta acted like it was in too high of gear/out of gas and sputtered out and would not start after that. any ideas? Edited September 7, 2010 by Goobysoobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Could be any number of things, but a really easy one to check is the timing belt. Just remove the outer cover near the coolant overflow (it's only like 3 bolts) and you can see if the belt is broken. No harm no foul on that non-interference engine if it is, just replace it. Probably a PCI timing kit would be the choice since it has new idlers and such as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Did you run out of gas? JK. Timing belt sounds plausible. Maybe fuel pump. Checked fuses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goobysoobs Posted September 4, 2010 Author Share Posted September 4, 2010 Yeah thats what I'm thinking/hoping for, I already got a new belt and all that jazz (as I was planning on replacing it anyway since I was doing the Water pump) but a quick question, since its a dual cam does it have two timing belts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Nah . . . if you pull real hard you can usually get one belt around everything! The EJ22 is not "dual cam"--it's Single Overhead Cam (but there are two of them!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goobysoobs Posted September 4, 2010 Author Share Posted September 4, 2010 lol well that helps in the planning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goobysoobs Posted September 5, 2010 Author Share Posted September 5, 2010 So me and my brother are trying to get the cover off of the timing belt and hitting some issues one the pulley is turning while we are trying to remove it the haynes manual said to use a chain wrench which didn't hold it and actually damaged it so now i have to replace that and also the little screws that in the plastic simply don't want to come out its almost like they are stripped, any suggestions on how to stop the pulley from spinning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 If it's a manual tranny put it in 5th gear, set the hand brake and one of you push hard on the brake pedal while the other wrenches on the bolt. Or you could try the "starter bump" method. The TB cover screws are a pain--the metal holders break free of the plastic and just spin. You may have to look for replacement plastic covers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 A chain wrench will work, but you need a big one, and you need to put old belt around the crank pulley to protect it. If you gouge up the crank pulley it will chew up your accessory drive belts. If you have an MT try the 5th gear method. Or look for the flywheel access hole and jam a screwdriver or something down in there. That's usually what I do. When putting the crank pulley bolt back in you need to get it tight enough. If it backs out on you later it makes a mess. Get good penetrating oil such as Kroil on your timing belt cover bolts. If you're gentle with them you can usually get them out without damaging the covers. I usually end up cracking the cover in one or two spots even then because of the rust belt area here, so I repair the covers with JB weld before reassembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goobysoobs Posted September 5, 2010 Author Share Posted September 5, 2010 (edited) yeah thanks for the 5th gear method worked great and yeah damage done to the crankshaft pulley have to get a new one. wish these manuals would give better instructions. and the manual says once the bolt is gone it can be hand pulled off... yeah that's not working lol... so gotta go rent a puller from autozone. and unfortunately it looks like maybe a tensioner went bad as the belt is loose but will know more once we get that cover off. Edited September 5, 2010 by Goobysoobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goobysoobs Posted September 5, 2010 Author Share Posted September 5, 2010 (edited) well quick update for those that care the problem has been found opened up the cover and found a crap load of ball bearings... the idler pulley exploded. so gotta get a new one of those. So ShawnW I know you advertise having parts and such..... Think you have an idler pulley and a crankshaft pulley available? Edited September 5, 2010 by Goobysoobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 The timing idler would explain it. Was it one of the smooth idlers, or was it the geared/toothed one near the water pump? The crank pulley will just slide off the crank..........on a brand new Subaru off the assembly line perhaps Otherwise if there is even the slightest amount of rust between the crank snout and the pulley it will be more difficult to get off. I always put antisieze in this area now on reassembly, and on the crank sprocket, so that in the future the job will be easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 well quick update for those that care the problem has been found opened up the cover and found a crap load of ball bearings... the idler pulley exploded. so gotta get a new one of those. So ShawnW I know you advertise having parts and such..... Think you have an idler pulley and a crankshaft pulley available? i don'rt want to kill a sale, but i would suggest new parts, not used, for this. these guys on ebay are good, belt and idlers for 72$, with water pump for 125$: "theimportexperts" : http://motors.shop.ebay.com/theimportexperts/m.html?_nkw=subaru+kit+1990&_sacat=&_odkw=&_osacat=0&bkBtn=&_trksid=p3911.m270.l1313 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-1996-SUBARU-LEGACY-IMPREZA-2-2-TIMING-BELT-KIT-/370426267783?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3ASubaru|Year%3A1990&hash=item563f204887 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-1996-Subaru-Legacy-Impreza-2-2-Timing-Belt-Kit-/300461661165?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45f4e91bed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goobysoobs Posted September 5, 2010 Author Share Posted September 5, 2010 (edited) yeah it was the sprocket not the smooth ones and yeah did get it off though took alot of elbow grease haha Edited September 7, 2010 by Goobysoobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goobysoobs Posted September 7, 2010 Author Share Posted September 7, 2010 i don'rt want to kill a sale, but i would suggest new parts, not used, for this. these guys on ebay are good, belt and idlers for 72$, with water pump for 125$: "theimportexperts" : http://motors.shop.ebay.com/theimportexperts/m.html?_nkw=subaru+kit+1990&_sacat=&_odkw=&_osacat=0&bkBtn=&_trksid=p3911.m270.l1313 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-1996-SUBARU-LEGACY-IMPREZA-2-2-TIMING-BELT-KIT-/370426267783?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3ASubaru|Year%3A1990&hash=item563f204887 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-1996-Subaru-Legacy-Impreza-2-2-Timing-Belt-Kit-/300461661165?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45f4e91bed Yeah thing is time is of the essence here (as its my only car atm) also I already have a belt and a water pump so I just need the pulleys/sprockets and from what I understand from other posts is that ShawnW sells timing kits like those and since hes about 12 miles from me I don't need to wait on shipping though, I'm waiting for a reply from him or I may have to pull them off a legacy at the pull and pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goobysoobs Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 (edited) So having trouble getting the belt on tried using the hand of a hammer and just pushing/pulling it on, the Haynes manual implies that one of the idler pulleys is off when putting it back on but that just seems like it'd be a PITA to get back on under that much tension, so any tricks on getting the belt on? did a search and came back with info on replacing the belts but the step of getting the belt back on is just assumed so sorry if this info is somewhere else. Edited September 10, 2010 by Goobysoobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 Take off the bottom right (passenger's side) idler. Once the belt is hung it's not difficult to reposition it and bolt it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goobysoobs Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 yeah we ended us doing the top right idler but we had to sort of plan it out cause once the tension went on either the right camshaft pulley or the Crankshaft sprocket would move but after 4 trial and error runs its on!!! now time to put all the rest of the crap back on lol. I need the car tomorrow so it may be a long night (an hour or so longer ) and thanks Olnick and others for your pointers they really aided this process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 You're certainly welcome. Goobysoobs. Just curious, you did remove and compress the tensioner while hanging the belt didn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goobysoobs Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 Yeah we did compress it with a vise slow like and put a small drill bit in it to hold it. Then we got everything put back together new coolant all that jazz and its just not starting is turning over over but not starting.... any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 Did you plug in all the connectors--crank & cam sensors, spark plugs? Anything else you might have unplugged? Are you sure you lined up the crank sprocket and the cam pulleys to the correct marks--that nothing moved off alignment as you struggled with the belt and idler? Ya' just know it's gonna' be something simple! :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goobysoobs Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 (edited) Yeah we plugged all that in but had a heck of a time getting one of the spark plugs back in so gonna try replacing them all (needed to anyway) and see what that does. now we haven't hooked up the Radiator fans yet as we still needed to use a timing gun *not sure if that affects anything doubt it though) other than that everything is connected. Edited September 10, 2010 by Goobysoobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 What mark did you use to line up the crank sprocket? The cam pulleys? Did your belt have alignment marks on it? What are you going to use the timing gun for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goobysoobs Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 (edited) The notch on the cam pulleys is what we used and the arrow for the crankshaft sprocket is how we lined that up the belt did have marks on it and we followed those. The timing gun was just to adjust the timing once we got it started but it has yet to start. I replaced the spark plugs and was actually excited because I pulled one of the spark plugs (the one we did yesterday) and found the little black stopper thing that helps you pull out the spark plug so I replaced it and the spark plug wires and thought for sure it'd fire up, but unfortunately it did not. So I'm at a loss again, and looking at another post for the 2.5 issue that's similar to mine I saw they asked if they removed the cam pulley at any time, we did because we couldn't get the cover off without taking it off do to spinning bolts but I think that was 2.5 only because there was a key and a dowel that made sure we put it back on right. **EDIT*** Another thing that came to mind was the Camshaft pulley I had to replace it due to using a chain wrench on it and I got a new one from ShawnW the only thing though is the pattern on the inside looks different it almost looks like my old one had a clutch on it and this on doesn't. and we lined it up to the "0" like the Haynes manual said Edited September 10, 2010 by Goobysoobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 YOU DON'T USE THE ARROW ON THE CRANK SPROCKET! Do a search for the proper procedure. Are you working on an EJ22 or an EJ25? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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