99 4spd AT

[Suba9792]

are these 4spd AT trannys reliable? I found a car my wife wants real bad, but I hate ATs so I'm still in the decision mode, its a 99 Legacy L wagon, 87,500 miles:banana: criuse,air,PWD,PDL,moonroof,roof rack, just overall immaculate! they are asking $6,500, which to me is a good deal, since it does have the EJ22 and then freakin car has less than 100k.

[Rooster2]

Yes, the AT tranys are reliable. Just remember the car is for your wife. If it makes her happy, then it should make you happy. $6,500 is a whole lot of money for an 11 year old car, even if low mileage, and very clean. Suggest you check Edmund's, NADA, or even Kelly blue book pricing guides to see what car should be selling for. Info is available on line.

[GeneralDisorder]

The 4EAT is more reliable than the 5 speed MT's. Sad but true.

 

I still won't drive one personally .

 

That's a ton of coin for that car. 87k is low, but for that car it wouldn't matter too much if it had 150k.

 

At that price make them throw in the timing belt since it's due at 105k. And have it's butt powdered by the dealer. And with these 105k belt cars - you WANT them to do the water pump, tensioiner, and idlers plus all the front seals. The deal is that this stuff is not lilkely to make it another 105k (210k total) before failure - especially being over a decade old at this point. Age is a consideration just as mileage is.

 

Quite frankly you could find a better deal. I sell cars that I've gone completely through and done all the maintenance on for less than that. Granted they have more miles generally but mine have brand new timing belts, water pumps, etc and WILL be good for 60k at least. You are looking at a major maintenance item in just 17k miles. Lot of money to spend for something that's going to need work that soon.....

 

If you can wait a week or two - I have a SWEET '99 OBW 5 speed that's going to be for sale. All the stuff that one you are looking at has, plus heated seats, 6 disc changer, fogs, etc. Engine (2.5 DOHC) has 130k (with the updated HG's) and tranny has 110k. Plus it will have a brand new 105k service done and all the fluids etc. Checked out by me top to bottom. I'm going to be asking $5500. And yes - it's immaculant. Might have like one door ding on the passenger side. It's got a stack of reccords too. Send me a PM if you are interested.

 

GD

Edited September 5, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[Suba9792]

well the thing is we will be financing the car, I love the EJ22 motor and this car is flawless! I just went to look at it, it looks brand new, no leaks nothing and the dealer agreed to have the t-belt and water pump and other things done for me. GD I'd love to take a look at the OB but she loves this car so sadly I must decline, but at least I know now that the 4spd at is a good tranny so she will have many years of service if we get it.

[porcupine73]

The 2.2L is nice. If by chance that's a phase II 4EAT you should be aware of the potential slow to engage to drive issue on those early phase II 4EAT's. Also not that it's a huge or complicated deal to fix but some of those '99 Legacies had flaky speedo gauge clusters. If they're doing the timing belt, make sure to get new timing idlers while they're in there. That 2.2L is interference.

[idosubaru]

the 99 is the one year auto trans that has a serious issue - but it's actually resolvable with a bottle of fluid (which we normally dont' recommend except in this one instance - cures in a bottle are typically bad news).

 

the 99 is notorious for a delay when going into gear problem. see if it has it, drive the price down, then fix it yourself for $5 by asking us how. or at least keep it in mind if it ever starts having issues. when you go from park to drive it takes a second..or 10 to finally go into drive. classic 1999 4EAT issue that only gets worse if not resolved. most shops consider that a couple thousand dollar repair because the seal that's leaking is buried. a few bleed over years like late 98's and early 00's will have it too.

 

GD is right though the auto trans are more reliable than the manuals...though maybe not 99's if you include this issue. 4WD so be sure to rotate tires properly, don't have it improperly towed with both wheels off the ground, don't run mismatched tires, etc and change the fluid.

 

you're due for a transmission fluid change too. at 12 years old and 87,000 miles it's probably had 30 oil changes and one or none ATF changes.

 

timing belt job, there's a really good chance at least one pulley should be replaced, you're over 12 years old now. the pulleys should be checked.

[porcupine73]

It can be a beast. Just make sure to start that engine up after sitting overnight and pretty much put it right into drive and see how long it takes it to engage. If it's more than a couple seconds then you need to check it out closer.

 

[Suba9792]

well thats great:lol: hopefully the probelm happened with the previous owner and the had it fixed! arrgh, but if it does have the delay well there is bargaining room:banana: but dealers can be !@#^ haha. So that bottle of stop leak stuff is that at the dealership? or napa? so will this mystery bottle fix the issue if it has it?, I may just look else where if this tranny turns out to be a flop.

[Suba9792]

What about the Lucas oil tranny fix stuff? I've used it for the last 2 years on my 97 2.2, the injector cleaner that is and it has worked wonders surprisingly. GD whats your take on this issue? have you seen this problem at your shop? ideas!!!!

[idosubaru]

What about the Lucas oil tranny fix stuff?

 

no you don't use lucas, it's best not add anything to your oils or ATF, this is about the one exception. there's a complete thread about the delayed engagement including hundreds of folks that have done it. and there's me and a few others that work on a lot of subaru's and have seen it a bunch of times.

 

it's Trans X Automatic Transmission Slip Stop or something like that. Available at Wal-Marts, Auto Parts stores, etc. Just read the thread for any more info.

 

It's nothing to be worried about at all actually, just a heads up for the test drive, bargaining, or the future.

[GeneralDisorder]

I haven't personaly run across that one. In fact I hadn't heard of it before actually. Probably because it affects specifically '99's and those only represent a small percentage of what I work on. Many have probably already been fixed.

 

Don't use Lucas oil additives - in fact I shy aways from all additives except in extreem circumstances. The trans-x stuff gary mentioned can sometimes stop torque bind and apparently helps with this issue as well.

 

GD

[Suba9792]

So I called the dealer and the guy said that the car shifts fine no delay between D and P or P and R, so maybe the issue was fixed by the previous owner( I hope) I'd hate to buy it then have the issue and have to dump more $$ down the drain. Hopefully they have service records.

[GeneralDisorder]

I replied to your profile message.

 

Yes - hopefully it's already been addressed but it does have low mileage so it's possible that it could still occur in the future. Not that big of a deal - when you first start to notice it address it immediately with that trans-x additive and you can probably catch it before it get's ugly. Knowing is half the battle right?

 

They are changing all the idlers, tensioner, and water pump with that timing belt job right? I would make them..... you don't want a cogged idler failure on an interferance engine and beleive me they can and do fail. Last one I saw fail was on a '95 at 163k. That's long before your next belt change.

 

GD

[Suba9792]

true but how long will that trans X last ?

[Suba9792]

yeah, I havent asked them yet if they would but odds are they will tack on another $800 to the price and if the tranny needs help another $1000, we shall see.

[GeneralDisorder]

That's a total ripoff then. This is why I hate used car dealers. . They try to get a premium price and then when you point out the flaws in this supposedly "premium" automobile they want to charge you to fix them. I would walk if they didn't do that stuff for free. Hell they should know about this stuff and do it before they try to sell it. They probably bought the thing on trade in for $1000 or less. Lame.

 

GD

[johnceggleston]

yeah, I havent asked them yet if they would but odds are they will tack on another $800 to the price and if the tranny needs help another $1000, we shall see.

 

no , no , no ,

 

the car is priced as though everything is in good working order, if you find a problem and it needs to be repaired they do not get to raise the sale price. as a matter of fact, you can demand that they provide you with a 3rd party warranty agreement. they do not cost much and they MAY give you some reassurance as a buyer. i do not personally have a lot of confidence in them but it is an option.

 

i would also not hesitate one bit in bargaining the price down based on "what ifs". this is a used car, the listed price is not what they expect to sell it for, and you can walk away when ever you are not satisfied with the process, much less the price. my guess is they will not let you get to the door before they call you back and offer you a different deal. and then you can ask for something more. it is not immoral or illegal and should not be embarrassing to change your mind on a car deal and say "sorry".

 

of course, if they do not call you back, you will have to make it up to your wife.

 

 

used car purchase example:

my wife bought a used car from a dealer, and paid more than i thought she should, but it appeared to be a done deal and she wanted the car, a 97 toyota avalon w/64k miles for $13K back in 02? or so. when we went in to sign the paper work the salesman asked " what do i need to do to make this deal". we had already agreed to the price in our minds but he was offering us another opportunity to make the deal. i should have stopped and re-considered the deal. i could have gotten more out of them, either less money or more "stuff".

 

live and learn.

 

if this car is a desireable item, it will go pretty fast, if not it will sit. it is also ok to walk away from the deal on monday, and come back on thursday and accept it. nobody is looking over your shoulder and judging you.

 

go back and negotiate the deal without your wife, maybe.

 

EDIT: by my 150 rule, it is not a bad deal. 87.5k miles

....................................................... plus 65 hundred dollars

...................................................equals 152.5

 

but my 150 rule does not take into account how old the car is. my rule also assumes that you will be able to drive the car 65K miles with out major repair. maintenance is expected, brakes, tires, axles, oil changes etc. but not trans rebuilds or head gaskets and such. i bet they will throw in a timing belt and idler change without batting an eye, but they will ask you to sign an agreement to buy the car if they "throw it in". sign it, just don't give them any money. you can still walk away. when they ask you to sign here if they do the work, tell them they are getting closer.

 

my 150 rule is mostly good for comparing cars of similar years and miles, which is better / cheaper.

(cars less than 1000$ do not fall under the 150 rule.)

Edited September 7, 2010 by johnceggleston

[idosubaru]

this isn't a big deal. it's not even known if the car has this issue.

 

and if it does it's $6 to fix and my 2 year old can do it, big deal.

 

you can read the ongoing thread of many YEARS of folks that have fixed this and reported back, you don't have to ask "will it last?". i can see some room for concern but so far given the results i'm fairly confident it's close to a non-issue anyway.

[GeneralDisorder]

I agree with Gary - don't concern yourself over the transmission issue.

 

Definitely DO concern youself with the timing belt job. Insist that the water pump, front main/cam seals, and all idlers are changed along with the belt. Anything less is rediculous on a car that is supposed to go another 105k on those components. Chances are good that one of them won't make it. I've replaced many failed water pumps and cogged idlers and often it's on 60k belt cars that didn't have that stuff done at the 2nd belt change at 120k. Last EJ22 water pump I did was a total failure at 135k and the last cogged idler I did was a complete bearing lockup at 165k.

 

When I buy cars to sell - I do a complete 60k/105k service on the engine (and any hoses, belts, etc that I am suspect of while I'm in there). I want none of these things happening to my customers and the measly $200 that the kits with all the components costs is cheap insurance for them and me.

 

GD

[Suba9792]

thanks guys, I really appreciate all the advice, I think I will go down there and see what I can do, the car is actually listed for $6,995, so I'm hoping if in good condition I can get away with it for 5 1/2k or so and the new timing belt WP pulleys etc. You guys should check it out, its on Autotrader zip 97055 then select legacy and year 1999, its the beautiful green Legacy L.

[Suba9792]

its at Affordable Auto wholesale on 82nd, yes I know 82nd is bad news:mad: but I checked the reviews online and 2 out of 20 are bad, but then again they could be the ones who posted the good ones...just saying

[GeneralDisorder]

Well - many people get burned at the used car lots. Just try not to be one of them. And as I said - see about getting an auto loan through a bank or credit union. You may be surprised at what you find. Many of them are wise to the used car lending stuff - even if you don't have stellar credit they recognize that people have to build credit somehow and frankly if they have the title then there is much less risk involved.... and most people aren't going to default on their means of transportation unless they have no choice. Car loans use the title of the car as security for the bank - secured loans are much lower risk than unsecured since the bank can just take the car and sell it to repay as much of the debt as they can recover. Car loans are the classic way to rebuild poor credit. Seriously - talk with some lending institutions - at least they aren't going to rip you off without putting it in fine print.

 

I've got a really nice OBW here - you should come see it . Tranny will be done tonight and it will be rolling till I get the parts for the belt/WP job. It's the same dark green like the one you are looking at and frankly the body/interior is fantastic - 9 out of 10 easily. No dealing with shady car lots if you buy from me .

 

GD

Edited September 7, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[Suba9792]

went to the bank today, NA on the loan, geez our credit isnt even that bad! cant beleive they wouldnt loan us the $.GD I was going to come look at the car ,but our bank is stupid. we are sitting at 600 and they still wouldnt give us the damn loan. Oh well gotta love the economy. I went and test drove that 99 Legacy, it did great no oil leaks HGs looked fine BUT it took 8 sec to go into drive, so I told the guy about the known issue and they said and I qoute " oh all AT trannys do that, its just a normal thing" so I turned my back to him and told him he was an idiot! there was no way in hell I was going to pay 6k for a car that needed a tranny job done. he said ok then 5 1/2k I laughed at him. I just dont think the Trans X would hold up for more than a year at best, and the wife said there is no way we are financing a car that has a tranny problem. Oh if only it was a 5spd, or a year younger. Live and learn I guess. oh GD how much do you charge to do a T-belt job? and new front CVs?

[GeneralDisorder]

GD I was going to come look at the car ,but our bank is stupid. we are sitting at 600 and they still wouldnt give us the damn loan.

 

Check with some other banks and especially with a credit union or two. Just going to a single bank is not a representative sample. And credit unions are usually a better choice with better rates.

 

oh GD how much do you charge to do a T-belt job? an - wod new front CVs?

 

T-belts kits run from $130 (early SOHC EJ22's, etc) to $250 (late model SOHC EJ25's) for the parts (complete - belt, tensioner, idlers, cam+crank seals, water pump, etc). Labor is $100. Usually less than $400 with fluids etc - worst case. I do a lot more than most "timing belt" jobs call for though. The whole front of the engine will basically be new.

 

CV's will run 1 hour per side on EJ cars - so $35 plus the cost of the CV (typically $70 aftermarket for the EMPI's) unless it's a rust bucket and it takes extra labor. Usually it's very simple.

 

GD

Edited September 9, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[Suba9792]

nice, I will hopefully have the cash next month to do all the work and I would rather you do it/show me the way, than take it to someone who knows nothing about them. Do you think it would be wise to do the front wheel bearings while in the hub? just for safety measures, car has 140k and I really dont think they have ever been done.