98 Legacy L Wagon

[Lucenut]

Hi all. I am moving across the country and trying to decide if I want to haul or drive my 98 Legacy L wagon. It has 120K miles. Everything is in pretty good shape, but I have never solved the torque bind issue on slow speed turning. And it has a pretty bad shake over 60mph that I haven't solved.

 

I work from home so it has rarely been driven the past 5 years. About 5 years ago I replaced front bearings, discs, and shafts to fix the shake. But it's only gotten worse. It doesn't happen all the time. When you get over 60 mph it comes and goes.

 

I don't know of a local Subaru or even import mechanic to go to. Anyone knowing a Subaru expert in Central Florida or have advice on where to start?

 

It looks like the blue book value of it is about $5K. I would like to keep it around for a few more years but need to fix the shake.

[Suba9792]

Have the tires balanced and rotated, somtimes and tire off balance will cause a vibration over a certain MPH. There are a lot of threads on here about the torque bind, try replacing the fluid

[porcupine73]

It's possible it's the propeller shaft.

[idosubaru]

you don't mention if it's auto or manual but i would guess it's an automatic? if that's the case just install the FWD fuse to temporarily alleviate the torque binding, that's not good for other components anyway so install the fuse until it's fixed properly.

 

likely vibration like that will be driveshaft ujoints or cv axles that were replaced with aftermarkets.

[Lucenut]

I don't notice any difference in the torque bind when adding the FWD fuse. I emailed a Subaru dealer in Orlando last night and got this response:

 

"From your description of the concerns on your vehicle, it sounds like the transfer clutches inside the transmission are binding, causing the issue when you are turning, and possibly the vibration when you are driving. When Subarus sit for periods of time without being driven, the fluid for the transfer clutches becomes like honey and causes the transfer clutches to bind. Another reason the transfer clutches get damaged is if less than all four tires were ever replaced at the same time. On AWD vehicles, all tires need to be the same size, brand and tread depth. Unfortunately, the only 'real' way to fix it is to have the transfer clutches replaced, which is about an $800.00 repair. It is, however, cheaper than replacing the transmission.

 

As far as the vibration, that could be a number of things, including the transfer clutches. One of the tires could be 'out of round', you could have something bent in the suspension or one of your axles could be bent.

 

One thing you could do to check this yourself is to install the FWD (front wheel drive) fuse. Installing the FWD fuse 'turns off' the AWD. This is only a temporary fix, and the vehicle should not be driven for long periods of time like this. However, it will give you an idea if the transfer clutches are damaged and you can see if the vibration you are having goes away.

 

The FWD fuse is located under the hood on the passenger side near the windshield. It is a small black box labled "FWD". The cover pops open and you can INSTALL a 20 amp regular type fuse. After installing the fuse, you will notice the FWD light on the dash will come on after you start the car. This is just to let you know that the vehicle is now in FWD and not AWD.

 

After you install the fuse and drive the vehicle, please let me know if the vibration goes away. If not, we can schedule an appointment to have you come in and have the vehicle checked out. You mentioned on your appointment that you would like an alignment, however, an alignment will probably not fix the vibration when you are driving. An alignment is done when the vehicle is pulling to either side.

 

Please let me know how this works out."

 

Any opinions on his diagnosis/price?

[porcupine73]

That e-mail from the dealer looks reasonable. It is well written, and by someone who obviously knows the issue at hand. I'd consider yourself fortunate to get that good a response by e-mail from a dealer. Yes, that price in my opinion is completely reasonable for parts and labor. Now keep in mind the dealer diagnosing the issue by e-mail is tricky, since that might not be the problem at all, and until they actually have the vehicle in hand they won't know for sure.

[Lucenut]

Replace transmission fluid? Any instruction on that? Should I get a Chilton's Manual?

 

Have the tires balanced and rotated, somtimes and tire off balance will cause a vibration over a certain MPH. There are a lot of threads on here about the torque bind, try replacing the fluid

[rainman19154]

Replacing the fluid is EZ!!!

 

Get an oil drain pan and pull the drain plug on your tranny. You'll get just about a gallon (on my '95 that's how it is). Replace the drain plug.

 

With a long thin funnel, down the dip stick tube add a fresh gallon of ATF. Start the car and run the engine for a few minutes. I'll keep my foot on the brake and move the shifter to Reverse, then Neutral, down all the gears and back to Neutral, then Reverse again.

Put it back in Park and shut the engine off.

Drain it again and add a second fresh gallon of ATF. Repeat at least three times, four or more is better.

 

I'm one that fluid changes fixed my Torque Bind. I do feel it sometimes but nothing like the KATHUNK!!! I felt when I first got the car.

Now that I know about the problem and how our systems have such a low volume of ATF anyway, everytime I do an oil change I also drain the transimission and refill it with a fresh gallon. Total capacity is 8.4 quarts, so dropping a gallon out regularly keeps the fluid from becoming totally trashed.

 

I don't know that brand is real important but I think you should pick one and stick with it. I use the Autozone store brand in my Legacy, but in my Mercury Tracer it's Walmart brand- that's where I was shopping when I first flushed the Tracer's auto trans.

 

And be sure the first time you drain and refill just how much your car really needs. I know now for my '95 it's just about a gallon.... but your year/model may be differant. You do not want to under or over fill.

 

You will want to swap out a couple gallons, drive for two or three days and then swap out another gallon or two.

Edited September 8, 2010 by rainman19154
added info

[Lucenut]

Thanks Rainman. Maybe I have the description of "torque-bind" wrong. When I back up and turn the wheels fairly sharp, it feels like the differential isn't working. The tires chirp a little like there's a solid axle. I don't get any "clunk" like you describe.

[Lucenut]

Update. I took out the FWD fuse which was in there for almost a year. (It only gets driven a couple of times a week to the store or a couple of miles to lunch somewhere) But the "binding" or whatever when turning tight is almost non-existent now. And the vibration over 60 mph wasn't really there. But I feel a "looseness" or shaking. I must have a bad shaft or something. I have an appointment in the morning at a shop to rotate/balance the tires and do an alignment.

 

Also someone on nasioc.com told me it sounds like the rear drive shaft. I'll also change/flush the transmission fluid, and see where we stand after that.

[porcupine73]

Also someone on nasioc.com told me it sounds like the rear drive shaft.

 

Yes that is mentioned in this thread too, the driveshaft u-joints gg mentioned or the 'propeller shaft' as I called it.

 

Based on your description of the change with the FWD fuse taken out the propeller shaft might be suspect. Because now the transmission is actually driving the propeller shaft rather than turning it by dragging it via rear wheels so it might change the feel. My '94 has this kind of shake around 60mph or above if I let it sit too long and I can feel it under the driver seat somewhat.

 

ATF changes can help if it is the transfer clutch; it did help in my '96 quite a bit too. I think a big part of what happens there is that the old fluid loses its dynamic frictional qualities pretty fast, and many people never even change it at all. So you really don't know what you're getting in a used soob. So a few changes can help clean out the junk and give it back the required frictional characteristics. I wouldn't necessarily call 8-9 quarts a small sump; that's pretty standard for an automatic transmission in a passenger car.

[Lucenut]

OK, thanks. I had disregarded the "propeller shaft" comment as a joke or something.

 

I'll commence with my plan to check the rear drive shaft, get her aligned, tires rotated/balanced, and do the fluid thing.

[Lucenut]

OK, I took her in for an alignment/balance job and the guy said the tie rods are shot in the front and he'd replace the whole rack & pinion for $400.

 

Anyone ever done that sort of job? Doesn't sound too hi-tech. I could probably do it myself.

[Lucenut]

Is this what I need? http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/A1_Cardone/Steering_Rack/A1261977.html?tlc=Brakes,+Suspension+%26+Steering#desc

[porcupine73]

Which tie rod ends are bad? The inners or the outers? And on both sides or just one side? Either way, the entire rack does not need to be replaced. The tie rod ends are replaceable. The outers are pretty easy. The inners are a little more tricky but not hard as long as you have the tool that slips over the inner tie rod end for removal (such as the Harbor Freight tool).

 

That link you posted the rack appears to include the inner tie rod ends (But if your outer tie rod ends are bad you'd need those too).

[johnceggleston]

there is no real reason to replace the whole rack if it is just the tie rods, as mentioned above, unless you are selling parts and labor to customers.

 

or you happen to have one in the shed you can bolt on.

 

or you can get one and install it for less than the cost of the new parts, tie rods only or complete rack.

 

look here: http://www.car-part.com sort your search by distance. about 50$ in my area.

 

if you can get the rack for a good price you can probably install it yourself in a couple of hours. the only hard part is disconnecting the tierods from the knuckle and maybe reconnecting the power steering lines.

 

you would also need a front end alignment unless you can adjust it yourself.

[Lucenut]

OK, got it back from the shop. They balanced/rotated the tires and 99.9% of the vibrations are GONE! They said the CV boots are bad and it's cheaper to replace the whole shaft than just the boot. Is that true? These shafts don't have 10K miles on them in 5 years. Do the boots just rot in 5 years?

 

I'll attack the tie rods myself this weekend and then get it aligned I guess. I'll also do the tranny fluid as it's probably never been changed.

[johnceggleston]

the only hard part is disconnecting the tierods from the knuckle

 

 

autozone has a tool you can "borrow" at no charge to do this, really easy.

[porcupine73]

It is often cheaper to replace the axle than to replace the boots BUT BUT BUT you must tread very carefully here, especially with front axles on an automatic trans. Many of the parts store axles end up causing odd vibrations. Not just on Subaru's; it's just the nature of the axles for some reason. So if the original axles are salvagable it can be worth saving them.

[Lucenut]

They were replacement axles from about 4 years ago. Any recommendations on what axles to purchase?

 

It is often cheaper to replace the axle than to replace the boots BUT BUT BUT you must tread very carefully here, especially with front axles on an automatic trans. Many of the parts store axles end up causing odd vibrations. Not just on Subaru's; it's just the nature of the axles for some reason. So if the original axles are salvagable it can be worth saving them.

[porcupine73]

Generally MWE axles have no problems. Genuine Subaru remanufactured seem to work ok too but are about double the price of MWE. The Subaru ones are reman'd by Cardone for Subaru to Subaru specs, (but that doesn't mean they're the same as what Cardone sells to parts stores). There might be some other options out there that are working for people.

[Lucenut]

How bad is replacing axles? Any special tools needed?

[porcupine73]

Axles are fairly easy. The hardest part is usually getting the axle out of the hub if there is any rust in there. Even a little rust makes it very difficult to get it out. But even on my rust belt soobs I haven't had any issues with that and I've replaced probably five axles on them.

 

Basically you break the axle nut loose with a 32mm socket, 3/4" breaker bar, and a long piece of pipe. The long piece of pipe is the secret, and I've had no issues once I lay on that pipe. I spray it with Kroil a week in advance though. You can use an impact wrench but Subaru doesn't because it can be rough potentially on the wheel bearing. People have broken 1/2" drive stuff on this nut. Just break the axle nut loose then jack up the front end. Do not do more than break the nut loose with the vehicle weight on the tire because it can damage the wheel bearing.

 

Then you have to unmount the strut or unbolt some other parts; people vary on what they like to unbolt to get enough clearance to get the axle out. I like to do the strut to bearing housing bolts but some people do it other ways.

 

Also there's a spring pin holding the axle to the differential stub that has to be driven out. A 3/16" (not 3/32") pin punch is required. Do not use a 1/4" pin punch because you'll get it stuck in there. And it is supposed to be driven out from the non fluted side. The MWE axles do not include a new spring pin or axle nut, at least none I've ever gotten. The Subaru axles include both.

 

I've got some various axle pics here: http://www.porcupine73.com/pics/axle/

Edited September 10, 2010 by porcupine73
3/16" not 3/32" pin punch

[johnceggleston]

yes, 3/16" punch needed, agreed, 1/4 is too large, it will become wedged in the hole and you might have to drill it out, not fun

 

about removing the axle, if you loosen the strut to knuckle bolts you need to mark the top bolt position before hand so you can reset it EXACTLY as it was. that way you will avoid a front end alignment.

Edited September 10, 2010 by johnceggleston

[porcupine73]

Great thanks for the note. Yes 3/32" would go right through the middle of the spring pin hhaha. I have been having a problem with cutting numbers in half today. To make up for it here's a pic of my pin punch:

 

Here's using a ton of socket extensions to make it easier to knock it out from up top: