Camshaft cap bolts seized... should I heat them?

[86GLScooby]

One thing after the other right... I'm trying to get the camshaft cap bolts loose, but it's stripping the heads. Tried 4 and not one budged, broke the socket trying to get them off. Got the front ones off easy, but the middle and back ones are a pain. They shouldn't be that tight. Can I spray them with PB Blaster or not? Not sure if you want that stuff in there and if that would even help. I could put my bolt grips on it and either get it out or break it, but I was hoping there might be a better solution. This is on a 97 Legacy GT, 2.5.

Edited September 11, 2010 by 86GLScooby

[davebugs]

Wow.

 

Someone clueless must have been in there before.

 

Those don't get torqued all that tight.

 

You may want to shop for new heads.

 

By the time you have them do the "normal" head work and possible remove the broken off bolts it may be easier. Since I'd be concerned about what else may have been done out of spec.

 

Good luck.

 

I've had to remove the front bolts after I snapped them off using the wrong torque on re-assembly. It may be difficult to extract your broken bolts using standard methods available in your garage. Then again I'm not a machinest.

[86GLScooby]

This must be from the factory since the only job that was done, that I know of, was an oil pump leak. The crank seal is brown and the others are black, so that was done. I just don't get it and I'm about to give up. The previous owners only had it worked on by subaru... I have a thick stack of service and maintenace paper work. You never know though.

 

Should I continue or sell the parts I got on ebay and buy a different car? Perhaps I can part out the car, not the engine though... what a bummer. I guess I shouldn't let these bolts stop me though, but how in the world will I get them out. I even tried my bolt grip tool and the head just gave away. Crazy right? The socket breaking, yeah it could have been a cheap socket, but the head of the bolt giving out before the bolt comes loose, on the camshaft brackets, wtf? I need to vent, sorry.

[Gloyale]

I've had alot of trouble with those bolts before.

 

If there is still a good hex head on the bolts just go buy a better (Craftsman, Snap-on, Cornwell, MAC.......)6 point socket, and use a breaker. tap the socket onto the head with a hammer so as to get the best bite on it.

 

If that doesn't work and the heads round off, one thing you can do is use an E15 (reverse torx) socket on the bolt head. Again, hammer it down onto the bolt head, and then try to remove.

 

If that doesn't work, very carefully with a die grinder remove the head of the bolt. Once the head is gone, and there is no more tension on the bolt and the cap is removed it will likely thread right out with pliers.

 

You will need to order replacement bolts from subaru.....about 3 bucks a piece......but they have to be those bolts because there is a shoulder on them that centers the Cam cap.

 

There is no reason to need to junk the heads though.

[86GLScooby]

Thanks... I went to sears and picked up a couple sockets and a bolt out kit that includes a size for 10mm, the one I had was for 3/8 and 9/16 and didn't really fit. On sale, yeah! They didn't have the E15 torx socket... so I got the bolt out set instead. Hope this works, I really don't want to cut the heads off.

[davebugs]

Those bolt extractor sets work good. Some of them a tap of the hammer to start them to "set" is nice.

 

I have the originals called "Xtractors". I also own the Sears knock offs. Often you can buy the little and slightly larger sets of the Sears ones pretty cheap and about half the price of it you get the whole set at one time.

 

Everyone makes these now. All the major tool manufacturers. A must have in my opinion.

 

 

Add: If you're removing the head and lacking metric stuff you'll be running back for that 12 point socket for the head bolts next.

I bought a 1/2 deep drive one specifically for this job and my 1/2 torque wrench.

[Fuzpile]

This pickle could require a different attitude. This bolt was threadlocked. Grinding the head off disperses more problems than any Pb Blaster.

It needs Impact.

[86GLScooby]

Yeah, allthough I have an old 12 point 14mm 1/2 socket for the head bolts, I decided to pick up a new one anyway. I don't want to mess around with this. Hopefully I will get to them soon.

 

The bolt out set I bought is from craftsman, it didn't have a price, so I took up to to get a price check and it was on sale, $9.99... gotta love that. Hope this works, I'm in town for the day and will try again tomorrow.

 

So I can't spray anything like PB Blaster on these? Not even if I'm very carefull? Impact is not an option at this moment since I'm trying to do this job with engine in the car. So far so good, I'm working on the driver's side first and allthough it's tight, it will come out.

 

Thanks, I hope this works.

[86GLScooby]

This pickle could require a different attitude. This bolt was threadlocked. Grinding the head off disperses more problems than any Pb Blaster.

It needs Impact.

 

Why would they thread lock those and not the front ones? Is this factory spec or are we thinking someone else did this?

 

Thanks

[Gloyale]

 

So I can't spray anything like PB Blaster on these? Not even if I'm very carefull? Impact is not an option at this moment since I'm trying to do this job with engine in the car. So far so good, I'm working on the driver's side first and allthough it's tight, it will come out.

 

 

PB won't hurt anything, it just may not really help either.

 

Are you changing headgaskets on this engine? If so, I would highly recommend pulling the engine. You almost have to to get the heads out. If you don't you risk dinging the surface of the head as you try to monkey it out of there.

 

Then you may be able to get a better grip on the cam bolts.

[davebugs]

I definately second the yank of the engine. I always do it that way.

 

With the extra difficulties yo're having it's really the only choice to me.

 

Yue need to have the engine/heads out where you can see them, get ot multiple angles, etc.

[mdjdc]

Take the engine out. You will have a better perspective on all the work you are going to do. Add to that the fact that you are already having trouble and I can see some of the lifters hitting the floor and getting mixed up. Then you will be in a real pickle.

 

I agree that someone treadlocked the bolts. There is really no reason for the bolts to lock up and if they were really toqued down, they should break while you arre trying to take them out.

 

If, in the end, you need to swap heads, let me know. I ahve a couple of sets and can get them to you quickly. I can send them stripped or complete.

 

Good luck

[86GLScooby]

Good news, tried the "bolt-out" on the stripped heads and they came right out. I addition to that all the other bolts came out easy with the new craftsman 10mm socket. I guess my socket was not good enough, had some play in it where the craftsman one sat in all the way with no play. Amazing what a difference good tools make. Thanks for your help. I ordered extra bolts to replace the 2 that I stripped. Here's some part numbers if anyone needs to order these... from 1stsubaruparts

 

On my '97 Subaru Legacy GT

 

-inner cam cap bolts - 10993AA000 - $1.25 each

-outer cam cap bolts - 808106180 - $0.76 each

 

also the exhaust studs and nuts

 

-stud - 800910550 - $1.18

-nut - 902370029 - $0.88

 

When I put in the new studs, what product should I use to lock it in place if any? Blue thread lock okay?

[davebugs]

NO thread lock on the stuff with the cams.

 

Anti-seize on the exhaust studs/nuts(whatever was removed).