Sorry if this is old news...but....

[WJM]

vvt in a subaru, now that's what dreams are made of!!!

 

Been around in SUBARU since 2004 for the USA. Its nothing new. JAPAN land got it in 2001.

[CNY_Dave]

Been around in SUBARU since 2004 for the USA. Its nothing new. JAPAN land got it in 2001.

 

The H6 (intro'ed 2001) has a simple version of the VVT, I believe.

 

Dave

[WJM]

The H6 (intro'ed 2001) has a simple version of the VVT, I believe.

 

Dave

 

Negative. The EZ30D did not get AVCS until 2005. At that time, it also received VVL.

[johnceggleston]

Why change it?

 

 

well it could be better design, better performance, maybe easier to work on, but i bet it's cheaper. this is usually the driving force behind car company decisions.

[SubaruJawn]

i wonder what model engine this would be ?

 

Old EA

Now EJ

 

Next ? still EJ maybe ?

[WJM]

well it could be better design, better performance, maybe easier to work on, but i bet it's cheaper. this is usually the driving force behind car company decisions.

 

no S H I T Sherlock.

 

The problem lies with ultimate reliability. If it does last longer, FINE. If not, I'm going to have issues with that and so is SUBARU as it will drive customers away. Already we've lot a lot of original customers to the EJ25 DOHC and SOHC headgasket issues, the 2008~2009 random brand new engine explosions and other stuff and those customers will not be back.

Sure they've attracted more mainstream customers to replace those, but the mainstream doesnt come back to the dealer for service and parts and that hurts dealers more than they realize eventho they are selling more new cars. Service makes all the money for the dealer and keeps the doors open. Parts is fixed based on service numbers, its just there for the ride. Sales barely breaks even and typically COSTS the dealer money to be there. So just think if service goes down, parts goes down...where is the dealer going to get money to keep the doors open? Sure, more cars on the road means more accidents and more wholesale parts out the door, markup at wholesale is really low % of profit. While service parts go down, wholesale goes up, new car sales are up, its not enough to offset the loss in service and next thing you know the bank comes and picks up the floor plan and the dealer is closed.

 

A dealer closed is a dealer that cant sell new cars.

 

Not to mention I'm already feeling those effects now....afterall, I'm standing here posting instead of WORKING. Standing here staring at $50k worth of tools and equipment of my own that I cant use because there are no cars to work on. Few years ago, I was turning 80~90 hrs a week no problem.

Where I'm at the who economic meltdown didnt affect the area much and especially the niche that our customer base is in. However, the mainstream customers are taking their cars to $19.95 jiffy lube instead of our $32.95 oil change. Our original customers still come in, but the numbers dwindle every year due to the changes that subaru is making that are pushing them out and attracting more mainstreamers. So, I stand here and every once in a while get an original customer and make some money.

 

And dont get me started on "LOW YOUR PRICES!!! YOU ARE A STEALERSHIP!!" No. We do not matrix price or over charge. We price match when we can afford to. The MATERIALS (parts) alone cost $23.and some change. Then you gotta pay the tech. Jiffylube and the like use far inferior materials and pay minimum wage for monkeys to get the job done. Dealerships cannot afford that liability. We are here to do it RIGHT and RIGHT the FIRST TIME.

Edited October 1, 2010 by WJM

[rxleone]

no S H I T Sherlock.

 

The problem lies with ultimate reliability. If it does last longer, FINE. If not, I'm going to have issues with that and so is SUBARU as it will drive customers away. Already we've lot a lot of original customers to the EJ25 DOHC and SOHC headgasket issues, the 2008~2009 random brand new engine explosions and other stuff and those customers will not be back.

Sure they've attracted more mainstream customers to replace those, but the mainstream doesnt come back to the dealer for service and parts and that hurts dealers more than they realize eventho they are selling more new cars. Service makes all the money for the dealer and keeps the doors open. Parts is fixed based on service numbers, its just there for the ride. Sales barely breaks even and typically COSTS the dealer money to be there. So just think if service goes down, parts goes down...where is the dealer going to get money to keep the doors open? Sure, more cars on the road means more accidents and more wholesale parts out the door, markup at wholesale is really low % of profit. While service parts go down, wholesale goes up, new car sales are up, its not enough to offset the loss in service and next thing you know the bank comes and picks up the floor plan and the dealer is closed.

 

A dealer closed is a dealer that cant sell new cars.

 

Not to mention I'm already feeling those effects now....afterall, I'm standing here posting instead of WORKING. Standing here staring at $50k worth of tools and equipment of my own that I cant use because there are no cars to work on. Few years ago, I was turning 80~90 hrs a week no problem.

Where I'm at the who economic meltdown didnt affect the area much and especially the niche that our customer base is in. However, the mainstream customers are taking their cars to $19.95 jiffy lube instead of our $32.95 oil change. Our original customers still come in, but the numbers dwindle every year due to the changes that subaru is making that are pushing them out and attracting more mainstreamers. So, I stand here and every once in a while get an original customer and make some money.

 

And dont get me started on "LOW YOUR PRICES!!! YOU ARE A STEALERSHIP!!" No. We do not matrix price or over charge. We price match when we can afford to. The MATERIALS (parts) alone cost $23.and some change. Then you gotta pay the tech. Jiffylube and the like use far inferior materials and pay minimum wage for monkeys to get the job done. Dealerships cannot afford that liability. We are here to do it RIGHT and RIGHT the FIRST TIME.

 

Well said. New does not equal better... every time you add something new, it's one more thing that can go wrong. I wish car manufacturers would start making things more simple rather than more complicated - and that's not just from a home-mechanic perspective.

 

If they can spend millions on a +1 MPG increase, they can spend more money making it simpler. Look at Hyundai. Their new SUV (I forget the name, maybe the Santa-Fe?) has something like 63 less parts then the previous engine, yet makes more power, is more economic, and (as it seems) more reliable.

 

The way they're going, there won't be any room left in the damn engine bay to fit more gear in.

[1-3-2-4]

But I guess they are thinking any 1 MPG or whatever improvement might net them maybe 5% more buyers?

 

It seems price and MPG are the major factors in

[WJM]

5% is a LOT when considering how many new cars are sold, overall not just any one make.

Edited October 4, 2010 by WJM

[idosubaru]

gas mileage conscious folks around me are not buying subaru's and 1 mpg is not going to draw them in. folks that aren't thinking about gas mileage....which is increasing as prices aren't at $4 any more....buy whatever they want.

 

if folks are going to change buying characteristics and not buy what they want aesthetically speaking, image, features, etc, they're going to lean towards big improvements. most don't give up personal choice for small change.

 

doesn't seem like much change to me at all, they tweaked the EZ, okay. for a company constantly absorbed in the industry, working on engine designs, testing, marketing, branding, analysis etc, this seems logical and expected. they have no doubt already talked about when to introduce the next series and the logistics of that process. organizations, particularly well run organizations, think way ahead. not just one year - but 3, 5, 10 years.

[AWDfreak]

i wonder what model engine this would be ?

 

Old EA

Now EJ

 

Next ? still EJ maybe ?

 

The new engine designation is FB25.

 

Sorry for the thread revival, don't know if you guys saw this already, but here it is, in the Fall 2010 issue of Subaru's Drive Magazine:

 

http://drive.subaru.com/Fall10/2011preview.htm

 

MECHANICAL

 

In non-turbocharged models, a new engine (designated FB25) sits under the hood. It has the first completely new design from Subaru in 20 years.

 

Subaru had a number of goals for FB25, including improved fuel economy and higher performance, especially at low engine speeds (low-end torque). Major differences between the FB25 and the EJ25 (which remains the engine of choice for turbocharged Forester models) include:

 

* Smaller bore and longer stroke

* Slightly higher displacement

* Chain-driven double-overhead camshafts instead of belt-driven single-overhead camshafts

 

Compared with the previous non-turbocharged EJ25 engine, the FB25 produces:

 

* Same horsepower, but at lower rpm

* Slightly higher torque at lower rpm

* Improved fuel economy

 

All-new engine for Forester 2.5X models (turbocharged 2.5XT retains current engine); new bore/stroke dimensions with slightly longer stroke; displacement slightly larger (2,498 cc vs. 2,457 cc); chain driven double overhead cam versus belt driven single overhead cam before; 170 horsepower is same as before, at slightly lower rpm; torque is up to 174 lb-ft at 4,100 rpm (vs. 170 @ 4,400 rpm); fuel economy is improved: 2011 manual and automatic transmissions 21 mpg city/27 mpg highway vs. 2010 20/27 for manual and 20/26 for automatic.

Edited December 1, 2010 by AWDfreak

[bheinen74]

still havent seen any dates on the 2011 forester with this new engine? It is coming out mid year? is it on a delay due to working out "bugs" of the new engine. Is it even coming out in 2011. Seems they are really behind right now and no word on when the vehicle is for sale. not even in the main magazines. one more month in the year 2010, and all other makes have the 2011 models out. maybe it wont be here til late spring, making it a 2012 model?

[AWDfreak]

still havent seen any dates on the 2011 forester with this new engine? It is coming out mid year? is it on a delay due to working out "bugs" of the new engine. Is it even coming out in 2011. Seems they are really behind right now and no word on when the vehicle is for sale. not even in the main magazines. one more month in the year 2010, and all other makes have the 2011 models out. maybe it wont be here til late spring, making it a 2012 model?

 

The 2011 Forester 2.5X is already out in the USA.

 

I've seen the engine in person. It is so weird to see dual camshafts on a naturally-aspirated 4-cylinder Subaru since the last one was the EJ25D (which I happen to have).

 

Anyways, the oil filter is now located up top instead of the bottom. I didn't really take a good look at it since I was just glancing around at the Subaru dealer, but it seems less clumped up top. Maybe that's due to the Forester's huge engine bay, or this engine genuinely is more compactly designed.

 

I don't really know, the more experienced members should see it for themselves since they know Subaru engines far better than I could dream of.

[1-3-2-4]

Wow did not know they were out now

[bheinen74]

Wow did not know they were out now

 

good to know thanks. they sure are not advertisig it, it must be buggy

[1-3-2-4]

why would it be buggy? They do a lot of engine testing (hours) before they just stick it in the car.

[AWDfreak]

good to know thanks. they sure are not advertisig it, it must be buggy

 

I think Subaru of America wants to fully exploit the annual "Share the Love" event before they put the spotlight on the 2011 Forester with the new FB25.

[1-3-2-4]

it's called FB25 now? I'm going to have Ej25 stuck in my head forever

[AWDfreak]

it's called FB25 now? I'm going to have Ej25 stuck in my head forever

 

Yeah, didn't you see my post???

 

Well I'll quote it since this is a new page, it'll be easier to see.

The new engine designation is FB25.

 

Sorry for the thread revival, don't know if you guys saw this already, but here it is, in the Fall 2010 issue of Subaru's Drive Magazine:

 

http://drive.subaru.com/Fall10/2011preview.htm

[WJM]

FBB25 in the tech ref book.

FB25 stamped on the block.

EJ25B in the parts catalog.

[AWDfreak]

FBB25 in the tech ref book.

FB25 stamped on the block.

EJ25B in the parts catalog.

 

...the f***?

 

So, ummmmmm, this is confusing. It's called the "FB25", but the parts catalog calls it the "EJ25B"...

 

I originally presumed it was simply a redone EJ. It is, but for them to call it an "FB" but still call it an "EJ" could make it confusing. If the parts catalog is going to call it "EJ25B", they should stamp it that on the block and everywhere else...

[WJM]

Whatever the logic is behind parts and service codes, I do not know it.

[richhill48]

Seems like one of the biggest changes is the move of the injectors to the cylinder heads. wonder if the cat. under the engine will reduce warm up time and result in better mileage?

[GirlWithALegacy]

I can't help but wonder why there's a trend recently to make every new design look as much like a transforming fighting robot as possible.

?

 

Lol - even car companies have to appeal to teeny-boppers somehow!

[ericem]

test drove the forester with the new motor. No big deal seems exactly the same as the old one maybe slower. woot for a new engine!!