Need advice on buying used 99-01 LTD Outback

[211]

My brother really wants an Outback but doesn't know anything about them so I'm going with him to check out a few tonight.

 

Can anyone give me advice on what to look for?

Our first one will be a 99 LTD OBW 5-spd with 130k miles (asking price of $5500).

Were the '99 2.5's Phase I still or did they implement the phase II earlier on in the LTD editions?

 

I plan on driving it obviously, and checking for noise, loose suspension parts, probably bring a 12 and 10mm socket and pull the plastic skid plate to check for HG leaks.

 

Any specific question to ask regarding mainenance history besides the usual, "have you replaced the HG's and timing belt?"

 

We'll also be looking at a couple 2000 LTD ones further out of town. Not too worried about those ones due to the phase II engines already being in effect... I think...

 

 

Thanks

Edited October 12, 2010 by 211

[GeneralDisorder]

'99 is a phase-I engine. It will not leak externally on the head gaskets - they blow into the combustion chamber causing the cooling system to pressurize and blow the coolant into the overflow bottle (the infamous "bubbles in my overflow"). Eventually this leads to a loss of coolant and the water pump stops circulation causing a rapid overheat. It can take anywhere from 10 minutes to several hours to overheat.

 

If you look at the head gaskets you should be able to tell if they are original (composite), 3 layer MLS, or 4 layer MLS (newest). If they are any of the MLS variety's then they have already been replaced at some point.

 

2000+ is a phase-II engine and will weep coolant on the ground. Those are much less dangerous as you can use the conditioner and keep them topped off and they should never cause an overheat.

 

GD

[211]

'99 is a phase-I engine. It will not leak externally on the head gaskets - they blow into the combustion chamber causing the cooling system to pressurize and blow the coolant into the overflow bottle (the infamous "bubbles in my overflow"). Eventually this leads to a loss of coolant and the water pump stops circulation causing a rapid overheat. It can take anywhere from 10 minutes to several hours to overheat.

 

If you look at the head gaskets you should be able to tell if they are original (composite), 3 layer MLS, or 4 layer MLS (newest). If they are any of the MLS variety's then they have already been replaced at some point.

 

2000+ is a phase-II engine and will weep coolant on the ground. Those are much less dangerous as you can use the conditioner and keep them topped off and they should never cause an overheat.

 

GD

 

Thanks GD! I understand the failure modes of the Phase I vs Phase II, I didnt' know if the LTD editions had any improvements.

 

You raise another question though.

How to tell the difference between old vs. new gaskets. You say the new ones are MLS (what's that mean anyway? Multi-Layer-Something or other?)? Can you elaborate a bit on HOW to tell? Like do the layers start to peel back along the exposed edge like an onion?

I noticed when I did my clutch in my '00 2.5 SOHC last week I noticed the exposed gasket and it was a thin metal material with peeling 'paper' (or whatever) on either side of the metal...

[GeneralDisorder]

Yes - the MLS stands for "Multi Layer Shim" and you can (usually - unless you are in the rust belt ) tell by looking at them and counting the layers you see. The composite one's (original) look like the exhaust gaskets - they have a graphite impregnated, perforated metal appearance. The MLS gaskets just look like a stack of metal sheets (which is exactly what they are - with some space-age sealant stuff on them). Early redesign was 3 layer and later they went to a 4 layer. I bought a '99 not long ago that already had the 4 layer's in it and I just bought a '97 with the 3 layer's in it and both were holding just fine so I wouldn't turn down a 3-layer equipped car. If they are still composite - definitely a bargaining tool because they will have to be replaced before considering driving it any distance.

 

GD

[Gloyale]

Original gaskets have no specific marker in the exposed corner.

 

First style of MLS (which may have been used at factory by 99) has Rivets with open holes though them.

 

Second (newest style) MLS have detents stamped in the corner, but not an actual rivet with hole through.

 

so look at the upper exposed corner.

 

Solid = graphite

 

Rivet w/hole = early MLS

 

Stamped Detent = Current MLS