New Subie FB25 motor for 2011

[Rooster2]

Just read in "Drive," the magazine from Subaru, Fall 2010 issue, that the 2011 Forester gets a new motor. The article says it is "the first completely new design from Subaru in 20 years." Well, I am not so convinced that it is "completely new," as the article implies. The guys in the Sub marketing department must be over eager to support the sales department with a glowing press release. It appears that it is still a an EJ25 engine with changes. According to the article what's changed is:

 

Smaller bore and longer stroke

 

slightly higher displacement

 

chain driven double overhead camshafts instead of belt driven single overhead camshafts

 

 

 

 

Compared with the previous non-turbocharged EJ25, the FB25 produces:

 

Same horsepower, but at lower rpm

 

slightly higher torque at lower rpm

 

improved fuel economy

 

 

I like the idea of chain driven camshafts, which negates changing the T-belt, (prolly like the current 6 cylinder, 3.0 motor.)

 

I am thinking that the FB motor will be the future source for parts to build yet another variation of Frankenmotors! Time will tell!

[bheinen74]

i am not sure when the 2011 forester comes out, i heard its release is delayed til they can build the factory that will make these new engines.

 

Subaru, please make a 2.0 so we can get even better mpgs. Some of us dont want all that power or the high cost of a car that has a 2.5

Please make them smaller, cheaper, with a 2.0 and fwd button.

[GeneralDisorder]

I agree - Subaru is missing the boat on an EJ powered econobox for the US market. Lots of sales being missed due to Honda (Fit), Toyota (Yaris), and Nissan (Versa).

 

Subaru needs a FWD (AWD optioned) sub-compact again like the old Justy.

 

For some reason Subaru keeps trying to be a Japanese equivelent to BMW, Audi, and the other high-end brands. They are ignoring their following and their heritage - just as they have been doing for years. The Baja would have actually sold if it was like the concept and not just an Outback with no roof .

 

IMO, their marketing people are idiots with the exception of the WRX/STi line of sport compacts.

 

GD

[Rooster2]

There must not be enough profit in the sub compact car market for Subaru to be interested. I bet Toyota doesn't make much from Yaris sales. Guess they feel that is pretty well dominated by Kia and Hyundai as well.

 

IMO, I am thinking they see themselves as a small auto company that can make a profit in the niche SUV market, and small car market by being different with the boxer motor and AWD, with a quality built product. That precludes making a small car with FWD, and 2.0 Litre or smaller motor.

[GeneralDisorder]

Profit might be marginal but if you offer an entire product line then you can keep the customer through their changing needs - Toyota is so huge because there is a large following of people that will drive nothing else - doesn't matter if they need a compact, family sedan, small SUV, large SUV, small truck, or large truck.... Toyota has them covered.

 

Subaru builds small stuff in other countries - it's not like they have to engineer something brand new. They just have to tool up a portion of the US factory to make some.

 

Like I said - they keep missing the boat with stuff - like the SVX, Baja, and Tribeca... all relatively unpopular additions to their line because they didn't implement them correctly for the age bracket they were trying to hit. SVX had no 5/6 speed option (which it just begs for with it's powerful engine and sporty appearance), Baja was not even close to the Brat it tried to draw upon for inspiration, and the Tribeca is an overpriced, ugly monster that kept buyers away with it's looks, price, and propensity for requireing premium gas in it's early years....

 

Basically the stuff they have tried seems very "unrefined" and without any real thought put into what the consumers might actually want in such a car..... they seem to dumb the cars down way too much and end up hitting a 50-something crowd instead of the 30-something crowd that would be their biggest market.

 

GD

[Suba9792]

Let us hope that this now motor is not a repeat of the EA series, or Phase I-II EJ25, but something totally bad rump roast and less maintenance,.........wonder if it will have HG problems:lol:

[bheinen74]

one more from me, is, I HOPE the Subaru engineers are watching our boards here, and the other Subaru sites, and finally, someday, give us long term Subaru owners what we are requesting. If they don't monitor these boards, we will just get garbage products.

 

want: 2.0, fwd switch, small 2 door hatch that gets 40mpg.

[OB99W]

[...]According to the article what's changed is:

 

Smaller bore and longer stroke

 

slightly higher displacement

 

chain driven double overhead camshafts instead of belt driven single overhead camshafts

[...]

 

Let us hope that this now motor is not a repeat of the EA series, or Phase I-II EJ25, but something totally bad rump roast and less maintenance,.........wonder if it will have HG problems:lol:

It seems Subaru is trying to address the HG issue, since a smaller bore could result in a more rigid block (less chance for the cylinders to "walk").

 

The chain drive theoretically could require less maintenance than a timing belt, assuming the chain guides, etc., are better than they were on some of the H6 engines.

[GeneralDisorder]

The chain drive theoretically could require less maintenance than a timing belt, assuming the chain guides, etc., are better than they were on some of the H6 engines.

 

Belts are going over 100k before needing any type of service. Do you really want to risk running *any* system past that? (let alone hydraulic cam-adjusters, and all that extra garbage in there). That seems to be a magic number and with any type of OHC system I don't think I would want to leave that stuff uninspected for more than 100k.

 

My guess is the only real win is the VVT. It will still likely have a major maintenance interval at 105k and I can't see it costing *less* than the EJ's in terms of that specific service bill. Labor will be the same, possibly more, and there will be consumables, water pump, gaskets, seals, etc. It will probably be more expensive to work on as has been the case with each passing year and each new model....

 

GD

[bulwnkl]

Well, I think the smaller bore/longer stroke is about efficiency. The hugely over-square EJ25 is at a disadvantage to (just for example) an undersquare Honda engine in terms of efficiency and output. I think that's all this is about. If it helps them fix the HG troubles in the process, brilliant!

 

While I'd like to see a lower-priced, non-AWD option myself, I'm a person that really likes my Baja, so maybe that proves that a cheaper non-AWD vehicle wouldn't sell well. I don't think the Baja was supposed to be a modern BRAT, though. I think it was Subaru's concept of an Avalanche. Unfortunately, Avalanches only sell well if they're big like a half-ton truck. That's the reason the Baja didn't have a chance in America, IMO.

 

I'm all for the timing chain. I have no qualms at all about running a timing chain for at least 300,000 miles, just like any American V-8 from the 50s through the 80s or 90s ran without any trouble. They do have to design and execute it for that kind of longevity, though, or else of course it'll fail expensively well before that.

[GeneralDisorder]

I have no qualms at all about running a timing chain for at least 300,000 miles, just like any American V-8 from the 50s through the 80s or 90s ran without any trouble.

 

Last I checked the American V8 from the 50's to the 80's needed a new timing chain and sprockets about every 100k miles. They get very sloppy and risk skipping much past that.

 

Some of the more modern stuff is better, but the older one's are not going to last 300k - hell the whole freakin engine is just about shot at 150k on most of them

 

GD

[Ross]

Subaru has sold FWD ej15, ej18 etc. powered imprezas and legacys over here for a long time, and they have never sold terribly well. There is a good reason for this.

 

Q: If you wanted a small engined hatchback that runs on a oily rag, why would you buy a subaru?

A: You wouldn't. You would have to be mad. You can get a toyota for much cheaper, that will use less fuel and (dare I say it) probably last better as well. Or you could get a suzuki swift for even less.

 

Subaru has it's own niche that has worked VERY well for them over the years -- although perhaps not so much in the US as everywhere else. In towns near ski fields here almost half of all the cars driving around are Subarus. I'm not exaggerating.

 

Trying to compete with the likes of Toyota and Suzuki in the areas they specialise could do the Subaru brand quite a bit of damage, since they really wouldn't be competitive.

[bulwnkl]

Last I checked the American V8 from the 50's to the 80's needed a new timing chain and sprockets about every 100k miles. They get very sloppy and risk skipping much past that.

 

I hear what you're saying, but my experience with those engines in super-heavy farm service suggests that you're referring to extreme exceptions. Timing chains in American V8s of that vintage last _much_ longer than the rest of the engine in that kind of service, IME. Perhaps farmers use much better lubes than other people or something??

Edited October 19, 2010 by bulwnkl