Strange Clicking/Grinding

[VegasClimber]

Hi,

 

I have been having lots of issues with my 95' Legacy Wagon (146.000 mi) lately, recently my timing belt went, that was an easy fix, using the search function on here gave me more than enough info. then i had a clicking in my engine, turned out to be clicking HLAs, three oil changes in 4500 miles took care of that, again thanks to the search function here, one more oil change and i was ready to try out a little ATF, but the noise seems to have stopped.

 

However my current problem leaves me stumped, and even the search function here hasn't given me a clear diagnosis.

 

So what I am dealing with now is a bad noise that alternates between a grinding noise and loud clunking/clicking noise, the grinding only seems to happen when the car is coming to stop in neutral, the clicking tends to precede the grinding when slowing down. the noise seems to directly correspond to the speed the wheels are turning as in it slows as the car slows and speeds up as the car speeds up, it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the RPMs and it doesn't seem to matter if the car is in gear or not.

 

it definitely comes and goes, sometimes its super bad moving all the way through each noise as the car speeds up and slows back to a stop. and some trips it doesn't make a peep, although its seems to be happening a lot more often recently, it first started about 6 days ago. it definitely intensifies if I am turning right, especially at higher speeds and when i am turning right it seems like its coming from the left front end somewhere, checked CV boots, they look fine. I had a spare tire on my right rear wheel for about 6 days leading up to the start of this noise, the day the noise started, I put a plug in by flat tire and put it back on my car, I probably drove about 100 miles the spare on though.

 

the noise seems to be coming from either the left front ball joint, or the bearing right behind the front diff, i think its called the center bearing, there is definitely grease coming out of the center bearing (or whatever that thing is called) but i haven't been able to find any info on these failing.

 

I suppose it could be the the front diff, but it seems to look fine, no leaking fluid, checked the dipstick, fluids fine, and the fact that it gets way worse when i turn right, and doesn't seem to happen when i turn left, leads me to think its something going on in the left front end. the leaking grease on the center bearing however makes me think it might have something to do with it.

 

anyway i am lost, any suggestions on where to start?! anybody heard a weird grinding while there car is going slow is slowing, followed by a thumping/clicking sound as they speed back up? HELP!!!

 

thanks,

 

-Joey

[idosubaru]

do you have a braking feeling when turning, known as torque bind?

 

sounds like a failing axle joint. if it's an aftermarket axle then this gains precedence 10 fold in my book, an original subaru axle is unlikely to do this.

 

front diffs do fail, they won't exhibit any oil leaking or symptoms though so that you see nothing doesn't really mean much. have you drained and checked the front diff oil? if the gear oil in there is 15 years old it might be a good thing to do anyway and you'll get to check to see if there's anything suspect with the oil - metal chunks, bits, flakes, etc.

[VegasClimber]

I really don't think its torque bind, no braking sensation at all, and I drove around in tight circles lots in both directions and did lots of tight figure 8s and its doesn't cause the noise.

 

the car has a manual transmission, I drained the gear oil today and put new oil in, the gear oil was last changed about 40,000 miles ago. There was a bunch of metallic sludge on the magnet in the drain plug, it seemed to be really smooth though, like really fine clay. There were however a few tiny shards of metal mixed in with the sludge, like micro flakes, very few though. could this be a sign my differential is going? or is the relatively normal to have a very small amount of metal in the old fluid?

 

the more it makes the noise the more it puzzles me, on my way to checker today to get gear oil its started making the thumping noise, if a turn my steering wheel right of center it would stop immediately, but if the wheel was pointed straight or to the left the noise would persist. then on my way back from checker it didn't make the noise at all, and during my short test drive after changing the oil it hasn't made the noise again yet.

 

I don't know if I have an aftermarket axle or not, as far as i know it still has its original axles, how can i check if its a suby axle or an aftermarket one? I bought the car with 100.000 miles on it and i have never changed out anything in the drivetrain. my right front axle does seem to have a little play in it, but both of the boots look fine, I can wiggle it maybe a half an inch with my hand, think this could be the cause? is there a way for me to determine which joint it is that could be bad?

 

Thanks in advance, someone on here has got to know whats wrong with my baby.

Edited October 15, 2010 by VegasClimber

[Fairtax4me]

I'm inclined to think wheel bearing. Theyre pretty easy to check.

 

Manual transmission cars tend to get lots of "goo" in them, from various sources. But very fine pudding like grey metallic goo is usually from bearings. The mainshaft rear roller bearings seem to like to wear out on these.

[Suzam]

The grinding clicking noise doesn't say wheel bearing to me. Most times that's a steady WUB-WUB-WUB noise that may increase in a turn.

 

Even if your CV boots look fine, the joint itself could be broken internally.

 

Was it the donut type of spare you were using? With the different diameter of the donut you could have strained the CV joints enough to cause a failure.

[GeneralDisorder]

I'll "third" the wheel bearing/axle issues camp. Sounds pretty likely. Jack up each wheel and check for play - when checking the rear's remember to disengage the parking brake.

 

It really sounds like a wheel bearing to me.....

 

Gearboxes always have some amount of metal in the oil and on the plug (thus the reason they always have mag-plugs). Sounds pretty normal to me. You would know if it was bad - there would be a metallic swirl in the oil and after letting the pan sit overnight there would be a large amount of metal "sludge" in the bottom.

 

GD

Edited October 16, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[VegasClimber]

Sorry to drag up an 8 months old post but this issue remains un-resolved,

 

This car was taken off the road for several month out of frustration, We had a third car for the last several months so i didn't really need this car. However i just sold my Impreza to my brother who was in desperate need of car, and now i need to resolve this issue.

 

I have ruled out the differential and after a couple weeks of driving the car again, and jacking it up and checking for play in all the wheels i have determined that the problem lies in the right front wheel (passengers side) there is a large amount of play in my right front wheel, when i jack it up I can wiggle it a few inches back and forth in all directions. i am convinced it is either a CV axle, or the wheel bearing/ bearing housing, the wheel seems to be wiggling in the hub, leading me to think it is not a bad ball joint which if i am not mistaken would allow the whole hub to move.

 

I have searched this forum relentlessly and while i have found plenty of usefull advise on how to do either of these repairs, I can't find any advise on how to pinpoint which of these components is causing all the play, there is so much play that the disc is hitting the pads even when the brakes aren't applied causing the edge of the disk to wear down unevenly.

 

I am at a loss on how to decide whether to replace the axle or the bearing, or if the whole housing needs to be replaced. I would prefer not to replace both if i don't have to.

 

 

Thanks for your help and again sorry to drag up such an ancient thread.

[Fairtax4me]

The axle can not move inside the hub. If the hub and wheel moves separate from the knuckle, the wheel bearing is bad.

Because of complications with replacing the wheel bearings on these, lots of people grab the entire knuckle with bearing and hub from a junkyard and swap the whole assembly, rather than replacing the bearing.

The bearing has to be pressed in, and quite often the knuckle gets deformed which causes the bearing to fail prematurely. To avoid this the knuckle needs to be supported a with a certain tool during assembly. If you choose to replace just the bearing, take the knuckle assembly to a Subaru shop to have them press the bearings out/in.

 

This community likes to hear the final word on the repair that fixes an issue. It can help others who may have a similar issue, so thank you for bringing it back from the archives.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Fairtax4me

[VegasClimber]

Ok i spent the last couple hours messing with this and i am now sure it is the wheel bearing as you've said.

 

I definitely don't think i want to deal with repacking the bearing as i have read about this a great deal on here and it sounds like a head ache. I am now trying to decide whether to get a new hub assembly like this one or go to the junk yard and get an entire used knuckle and swap the whole thing for a used one, my only concern with this would be that i would be installing an old bearing that may not last as long as a new one.

 

Also there seems to be a difference in the part you need depending on whether or not you have ABS, is this only because of the place for the ABS sensor? My Legacy is equipped with ABS but i have disabled it due to a bad ABS controller that i do not want to replace, will I need an ABS part if i don't have a functioning ABS Controller?

 

Thanks for the help and I'll definitely let you guys know how this all turns out.

[Fairtax4me]

The HUB won't do you any good because it doesn't come with the BEARING.

 

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=219386

 

The bearing is the same whether it is for ABS or non-ABS.

[MilesFox]

Pull your hub and have a shop press in the new bearing. Install the seals yourself. You would only be in into one hour of shop labor. this is the most cost effective way to do it if you do not have bearing tools

[VegasClimber]

Milesfox,

 

Your fix sounds great but I am a little concerned there is damage beyond just a blown bearing, is there a chance the hub itself could be deformed? there is a lot of movement in the wheel, so much that I kind of want to just replace the whole knuckle with a junkyard part.

 

I suppose what i need to do is just pull it all apart and see how things looks and decide. Thanks for the advise, I'll post when its fixed and let you guys know how it turned out.

[GeneralDisorder]

If you don't have a shop with many tools and/or experience with doing these wheel bearings you will be ahead having it done by a shop that is familair with FWD wheel bearings like these. It will cost about the same to have it done as it would to buy the tools to replace it yourself. Buy the bearing and the seals and take the whole knuckle into a shop.

 

GD

[Fairtax4me]

You would have to get into an accident to deform the hub or knuckle.

 

You may find that once you get the wheel off the ABS wheel speed sensor is damaged because of the wheel flopping around and that might be the cause of your ABS problem.

[GeneralDisorder]

You would have to get into an accident to deform the hub or knuckle.

 

You would think that, but a heavy-handed press operator could deform the bearing pocket resulting in premature failure of every bearing that's subsequently installed into that knuckle. It's actually been such a problem that Subaru has advised their dealers that a Hub-Tamer (Hub Shark, or Subaru Special Tools version from Kent-Moore) is the prefered method as it is MUCH less likely to deform the knuckle bearing pocket.

 

GD

[Fairtax4me]

I know that, But he's asking if the knuckle on his car may be deformed because of the wheel flopping around. At least that's how I perceived it.

 

Of course if the bearing was replaced by a previous owner, it could have failed due to improper installation/deformation of the knuckle.

[MilesFox]

I would doubt the knuckle is deformed. You wouldhave to wear it down so much that the rotor locks up against the caliper bracket and make the car virtually undrivable to get anywhere near deform ing the knuckle.

 

If you have your doubts, pull a junkyard knuckle, and have a new bearing pressed into it.

[VegasClimber]

Sounds like the knuckle is most likely not deformed, however, I decided to replace the whole knuckle anyway, I found a new knuckle with a good bearing in it for $50 from a local used Subaru parts dealer (Also I just found and awesome local used Subaru parts dealer! and in Vegas = no rust) and i am now well into pulling off my old knuckle to install the new one.

 

Removing the old knuckle has gone smooth enough except now i can't seem to remove the lower strut to steering knuckle bolt, i know the upper one is not round for camber adjustments, but the lower one is supposed to be round and that's the one that is giving me trouble. I removed the nut without a problem but the bolt wont slide out no matter how hard a pound the other side.

 

has anyone else run into issues here, any tricks to getting this thing out?

 

I'll let you all know if i get this thing out, the repair should be smooth sailing from there on.

[johnceggleston]

but the lower one is supposed to be round and that's the one that is giving me trouble. I removed the nut without a problem but the bolt wont slide out no matter how hard a pound the other side.

 

 

disconnect the sway bar end link if you have not already. undo everything else first.

 

on the bottom, i like to remove the cotter pin and castle nut and replace it with a lug nut. (unless you have alloy wheels, don't use one of those lug nuts.) now you can bang on it if needed and not worry about messing up the threads or the castle nut. if the sway bar is disconnected you can bang on the control arm and it should pop off the ball joint stud / spindle. (DO NOT MESS WITH THE PINCH BOLT on the bottom of the knuckle.) if you have to you can put a jack under the ball joint stud, with the lug nut on it, to give you some to bang against.

 

then go back and address the strut bolt. it will be hanging by then. try putting your socket on the head and turning it a few times to loosen it up.

[kd7dej]

disconnect the sway bar end link if you have not already. undo everything else first.

 

on the bottom, i like to remove the cotter pin and castle nut and replace it with a lug nut. (unless you have alloy wheels, don't use one of those lug nuts.) now you can bang on it if needed and not worry about messing up the threads or the castle nut. if the sway bar is disconnected you can bang on the control arm and it should pop off the ball joint stud / spindle. (DO NOT MESS WITH THE PINCH BOLT on the bottom of the knuckle.) if you have to you can put a jack under the ball joint stud, with the lug nut on it, to give you some to bang against.

 

then go back and address the strut bolt. it will be hanging by then. try putting your socket on the head and turning it a few times to loosen it up.

 

He'll have to mess with the pinch bolt to reuse his ball joints unless the knew knuckle/hub assembly he got has the ball joints in it, but for $50.00 I doubt it.