sonofbuster Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 hi there. i just lost my trusty Tacoma to a careless driver exiting a school, so now i'm in search of a wagon to replace it. i've been poking around this site and cars101 trying to see if there's anything to make one model year/trim more desireable than the other. so far, all i can tell is that there is some issue with the engines having leaking head gaskets which would cost quite a bit to replace. in addition to that possible problem, what else can i look/hear for in these cars that might raise a red flag (aside from obvious strange noises/lights)? any spots under the hood or body i should check in particular? also, will CarFax/Autocheck reports indicate if the timing belt was replaced? all the cars in my price range are going to be due or past due for a belt so if i could know for sure that it was done, that'd be sweet. what i want (if it helps): a wagon, kid hauler (2001's and up have LATCH, i believe), better snow ability than my 2wd truck, ability to take a trailer hitch (for a bike rack, not to tow). engine-wise, a H6 would be nice in passing situations, but i can live with a 4-cyl and assume it'll save me in gas anyhow. look forward to joining the million other Outback drivers in CT.. thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatswhatshesaid Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 The H6 began in '01. The head gasket became less of an issue in '00, but some say it wasn't completely resolved until '03. I have a 2000, and it went 192k miles on the original HG without problems. Most changes in the 00-04 Outbacks are very minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatswhatshesaid Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Carfax won't tell you about timing belts. If you purchase from a dealer, ask them about the t-belt. A lot of the dealers familiar with Subarus around here do the timing belts just as protocol in cars with 80-120k miles (if they're not sure whether it's been done). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzam Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 2000 has smaller front disk brakes and was the first year of that body style. I'd look for a 2001 or newer. If the belt was done at a dealer it will be on record in Subaru's data bank history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatswhatshesaid Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 2000 has smaller front disk brakes and was the first year of that body style. I'd look for a 2001 or newer. If the belt was done at a dealer it will be on record in Subaru's data bank history. They will, however, fit 15" wheels - which makes buying winter tires a heck of a lot cheaper. I think the smaller brakes ran until '02, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbuster Posted October 16, 2010 Author Share Posted October 16, 2010 roughly how much would getting a timing belt done cost? should the water pump go too? and how do these Outbacks do in snow with all-seasons? we don't get much snow in CT, but i may drive around in the country to do some skiing. noting too hairy. maybe. thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzam Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 They will, however, fit 15" wheels - which makes buying winter tires a heck of a lot cheaper. I think the smaller brakes ran until '02, though... Larger brakes on Outbacks started in '01. I know this because I have one. Also limited slip rears became standard on LTD models in '01 and then regular Outbacks in '02. In CT you should be fine with all seasons. The only time I wish I had snows was heading into the Poconos or White Mountains in NH during ski season. It isn't so much the Subaru as the other drivers that cause you to wish you had better braking and handling with snow tires to avoid them. Otherwise the car performs quite well with plain all-seasons tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbuster Posted October 16, 2010 Author Share Posted October 16, 2010 what kind of mileage are you getting in strictly city? how about on the highway only? seems the EPA estimates vary by several MPG depending on where you look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 get an H6 if you can, excellent motors and no timing belt. drive in slow tight circles, turned to full lock, on dry pavement/concrete. any binding indicates torque bind, meaning the trans need maintenance. probably not what you're after. 00-03 EJ25's (4 cylinder) head gaskets leak externally so they're actually fairly easy to spot if you know where to look. usually on the rear head to engine mating surface, sometimes visible from underneath too. look at the head junction for coolant or sometimes oil leaking at the head. those are two big things to check for. one dealer i know of in MD charges $699 for timing belt only. independents will do it cheaper. ebay has reasonable kits with all the pulleys and belt included, though on newer cars i sometimes just toss the belt and use a Subaru belt. you'll never have a shop install new pulleys, they're way too expensive otherwise. your best deals come from private owners, particularly given what yo'ure looking for. it's not hard to find a private seller with a great car. one owner with all the maintenance records. dealer lots leave you knowing nothing about the car unless you can track it down. craigslist, autotrader, local ad's, papers, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzam Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 (edited) what kind of mileage are you getting in strictly city? how about on the highway only? seems the EPA estimates vary by several MPG depending on where you look. +1 on on what grossgary said about torque bind testing. My '01 2.5 gets 19-20 MPG around town when the wife drives (she has a tendency to launch from stops and use the brakes harder than I do). Then I'd say 20-21 when I drive my conservative style (easy take offs and coasting more to stops, etc). Mixed driving gives me about 23 average. Highway you could expect around 27 MPG on a long trip at 65+ MPH. I always wanted to say this: "Your mileage may vary." Edited October 16, 2010 by Suzam I can't spell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzam Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 One other thing to check if you look at a model with dual sunroofs is to make sure the front one tilts correctly and the rear one opens with the shade following it correctly. As they get older there are sometimes issues with smooth operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbuster Posted October 17, 2010 Author Share Posted October 17, 2010 so i test drove two 2001 Outbacks, both H4; one Base, one Limited. is this binding at the steering wheel or the car just stops rolling? i did the tight circles in both directions on the Limited but got nothing out of the ordinary. not sure what the binding is, however, so not positive. as far as the head gasket leaking indicators, does anyone have a picture of the common leaking areas? i stuck my head under the hood of both cars after a test drive and found nothing leaking. also checked under the car and no leaks, front to back. the first car had some rattling when on the gas. the motor also sounded a little 'brrappy' when accelerating. it drove fine otherwise and was very clean cosmetically. the dealer services all the cars on purchase with new timing belt, water pump, and some other stuff so the price was reflected accordingly, if a bit over the top. the second car had some dings exterior and a couple bubbles of rust, also very clean inside with some minor issues. i could tell the hood had been painted upon really close inspection. the salesman didn't know why and there was no report of collision on the Car Fax. this engine ran great, smooth, quiet. BUT, there was a rattle in there too. not when pressing the gas, and somewhat random and not even audible once driving. almost like something was loose. i asked the salesman about timing belt and he had no clue if had been done and produced a few service tickets from their shop showing what they had done. all four brakes completely, and some a/c belt work (i think). i haggled down a few hundred on #2 and put a deposit on it to pickup Tues. after reading another thread about 'death rattle' i'm paranoid now. i'll sleep on it now... THANK YOU everyone for the information so far. this site's been VERY informative. get an H6 if you can, excellent motors and no timing belt. drive in slow tight circles, turned to full lock, on dry pavement/concrete. any binding indicates torque bind, meaning the trans need maintenance. probably not what you're after. 00-03 EJ25's (4 cylinder) head gaskets leak externally so they're actually fairly easy to spot if you know where to look. usually on the rear head to engine mating surface, sometimes visible from underneath too. look at the head junction for coolant or sometimes oil leaking at the head. those are two big things to check for. one dealer i know of in MD charges $699 for timing belt only. independents will do it cheaper. ebay has reasonable kits with all the pulleys and belt included, though on newer cars i sometimes just toss the belt and use a Subaru belt. you'll never have a shop install new pulleys, they're way too expensive otherwise. your best deals come from private owners, particularly given what yo'ure looking for. it's not hard to find a private seller with a great car. one owner with all the maintenance records. dealer lots leave you knowing nothing about the car unless you can track it down. craigslist, autotrader, local ad's, papers, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzam Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 (edited) The rattle you are hear could be just the heat shields on the exhaust, they are famous for coming loose and rattling. The "Death Rattle" you are referring to that was posted by ricearu is an internal engine issue that would be very obvious if you hear it. More of a dull hammer sound hitting a solid piece of aluminum. The heat shields usually rattle at idle while in gear and on acceleration at certain RPMs. Sounds like a muted coffee can with some coins in it shaken at a fast pace. Torque bind is pretty straight forward, if it binds you'd know it. It's like a jerky feeling as if someone is pushing easy on the brakes a couple of times a second when you drive in tight circles. One more thing to check is for a fuse in the FWD slot under the hood on the passenger side near the firewall. It's a small black plastic fuse holder with white letters on the lid. It should be empty, if not someone put it in to disable the AWD. If present, take it out and try the tight turns again since the should be no reason to have it installed. Also the tires should be all the same type with the same tread wear, Subaru recommends they be no more the 1/4 inch different in circumference. It the tire are mismatched by brand or tread depth, that's not good. The coolant leak is usually a dirty blackish stain on the underside of the engine where the head meets the block. Unless it's severe, it's only a weeping type of leak. You may never see it looking wet. Edited October 17, 2010 by Suzam add more info and fix my spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StructEngineer Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I have an 02. Dont confuse the death rattle (rod bearings) with loose heat shields on your exhaust. Every forester seems to have the heat shield rattle problem. Annoying, but not that big of a deal. As for HG's, you wont always see the problem if you just look under the car. A lot of them weep for some time until they really let go (like mine). You definitely have to check the backside of the engine where the heads meet the block. If it looks moist anywhere along the mating surface, then haggle down at least $900 more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 roughly how much would getting a timing belt done cost? should the water pump go too? and how do these Outbacks do in snow with all-seasons? we don't get much snow in CT, but i may drive around in the country to do some skiing. noting too hairy. maybe. thanks! Not much snow around Hartford, except when there is! One or 2 years between 10 and 5 years ago there was a heck of a lot! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatswhatshesaid Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 My '01 2.5 gets 19-20 MPG around town when the wife drives (she has a tendency to launch from stops and use the brakes harder than I do). Then I'd say 20-21 when I drive my conservative style (easy take offs and coasting more to stops, etc). Mixed driving gives me about 23 average. Highway you could expect around 27 MPG on a long trip at 65+ MPH. This is almost exactly what I get in my '00 Outback wagon, except on the freeway I keep it at about 75 MPH. 27 MPG freeway (75-80 MPH) 29 highway (65 MPH) 22 city (stop and go, 35 MPH roads mostly) 24 mixed I've gotten this fuel economy (with hardly any variation) since I got the car 80k miles ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatswhatshesaid Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 That heat shield rattle irritated the crap out of me for a long time... I didn't know everyone else had the same issue. ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbuster Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 i dun did it. i now own a blue 2001 Outback Limited. it's an H4 so i'm hoping it doesn't develop any HG issues. it runs great so far with a few minor non-performance issues that i'll address as i have time. thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatswhatshesaid Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 i dun did it. i now own a blue 2001 Outback Limited. it's an H4 so i'm hoping it doesn't develop any HG issues. it runs great so far with a few minor non-performance issues that i'll address as i have time. thanks for the help! Awesome. Good choice. They're great cars. I don't think you'll be disappointed. I love mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzam Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 :banana:Congrats on your purchase! And now you know where to come when you need info or have questions too!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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