jaredb3000 Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Greetings Yall, I am in the midst of finishing up timing belt project (which I have tackled thanks to helpful folks on USMB), waiting now for the belt kit. Have the cam seals/rings and valve gaskets finished, and the crank seal/oring/gasket finished, I hope… The last questions out of me for a while- promise:banana: I just came across that I should use three bond 1215 or equivalent fluid packing in the service manual, however the manual has no mention of a gasket… Will the gasket that came with the crank seal/ring suffice, or should I take the pump back off and use three bond, or (I think I have a tube kicking around somewhere) some high-temp red silicone gasket sealant? Since I had not come across this in USMB posts, I opted to not use a sealant. While its still accessible, should I pull the pump again and use some sealant in addition to the gasket? High temp red sealant for h2o pump in addition to the gasket, or just the gasket? Also, now that the pump is on with the new gasket () I noticed it may be wise to use some locktite on the screws- 2 were loose, which I tightened well by hand. Should I think about pulling the pump back off and locktite-ing all the screws, or only the ones that were loose, or not worry? Speaking of locktite, should I do crank and cam bolts with locktite, or only cams? I have gotten mixed signals on this reading older posts. Back to the oil pump: after unbolting the sensor on top of the pump, one side slightly fractured when I attempted to remove it. When bolted back on, you cant even notice the fracture, and it was not enough to expose any wiring or metal. What is this called, and should I definitely replace? Can’t seem to find any info on this part in USMB and the manual does not include this in any diagrams. In the worst case scenario, if I don’t change this, would I get a code to know that I need to change it? I ended up doing the gasket/oring/seal with this still attached, a pain in the rump roast but doable. Very last question forever (): Having already done the valve cover gaskets, I came across this in the shop manual: "After ensuring that the marks on timing belt and camshaft sprockets are aligned, remove stopper pin from belt tension adjuster. CAUTION: After properly installing timing belt, remove rocker cover and ensure that the valve lash adjuster contains no air." Is this a given, or do most people omit this step? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 you don't mention what vehicle or engine so i'm only assuming some things. EJ oil pumps don't have gaskets, they are sealed with sealant. there's one oring that goes in place, the rest is supposed to be the three bond (or equivalent). so i'm kind of confused that you "put a gasket in there", since there isn't one? i'm sure i'm just not understanding something.... as for cracking the crank sensor on top of the oil pump, don't worry about it unless it causes issues, which is unlikely. i've always omitted that step, actually i've never even noticed it was there. so yeah, install belts and done countless times for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredb3000 Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 (edited) Thanks GG- I think the yotatech forum has forever tainted my use of other vehicle forums, as it puts what vehicle(s) you own automatically in your post for you. Sorry about that, its a 94 Legacy Wagon non-turbo EJ22. I did end up pulling the pump again and ditched the gasket, going with ultra grey for a seal after locktiting the screws. At autozone, I picked up a crank seal that came with the O-ring and a very thin gasket that mates with the pump and the block. Got the Tbelt on with all notches @ 12 oclock, marks on the belt lined up spot-on with these marks, and I counted 44/40.5 for the teeths. Have to go get one more of the smaller radiator hoses I forgot I had to cut to get old radiator out last weekend, then comes sighs of relief or blackout rage... or at least a whole lot of cussin'. If anybody happens upon this, I am curious if a high temp silicone (i have some red somewheres, or else the ultra grey) would be okay to better seal up the the rear/front timing belt cover seam where there is the slightest gap near/at the new waterpump. The covers alligned properly, but there is one spot that seems like it could benefit from some xtra sealing... Also, I am curious if it is ok that the cam pulleys moved ever so slightly when the belt was off, and I was putting the pulleys back on to tighten (before later tightening super tight, that is). They moved clockwise maybe 1/2" (to 1 oclock) which I of course returned to the original 12 oclock position exactly where they were. I have been told by a couple people that this is OK, but they were not Subaru people per se... Thanks again to everyone who has offered advice. This project has definitely pushed the boundaries of my auto mechanic experience- could'nt have done it without USMB! Now I just have to find my 59 Galaxie 500 Skyliner resto project car... Edited October 23, 2010 by jaredb3000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Don't worry about the timing belt cover seals - many of us run without the outside covers anyway. You can RTV it if you like but it's not really needed. Moving the cam pulley's is fine. Your engine is non-interferance anyway (meaning mechanically nothing can hit even if the timing belt is broken/gone). GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie/legacy Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Permatex anaerobic gasket maker #51813 it only hardens when installed. this is what you should use to seal your oil pump to the block if you haven't reinstalled it already. its what I used when I did an overhaul on my ej22 3k miles later and no signs of oil on or around my oil pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 RTV is fine also - neither will likely ever leak. I also use the flange sealants - Loctite 518 or Permatex equivelent, but RTV is often easier to find and it's actually closer to what Subaru uses. I *prefer* the 518 but RTV is still ok. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredb3000 Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 (edited) Well, something is amiss, perhaps the timing is off... The rundown: After filling the coolant using the engine block/attach hose/top off at rad/run for 20 seconds and shut off to let some initial air out method, she started up fine, but I noticed it sounded a bit louder (there is a slight exhaust leak that I'll be tending to after this business), and I noticed a slight pulsing of the idle speed, that slightly (a few hundred rpms) went up/down; after 20 seconds I shut engine off. I'm about to go check the codes, just wanted to get a head start on this. The check engine light was blinking steadily when running. Topped off fluid, restarted, but running sluggishly after a moment then stalled. I'm curious if a prior slightly off timing would result in this problem with it done correctly? Prior to this, it used to idle slightly below 1000. With the new belt in, for 15-20 seconds there before it stalled it actually maintained at exactly 1000. Otherwise, this was a well running engine before this project... I pulled the side belt covers to take a look, and the belt is still tight. The positives- I see no oil weeping anywhere which is why I did this in the first place. Since it started, the spendy crank sensor does not need to be replaced. Before I get at the belts again, I am curious if there is any smaller things I might want to check. Also, if it is OK to start it again w/o damaging anything, in order to grab a few seconds of audio/video to post... Also, would the O2 sensor contribute to this? That is something that has been in need of replacing, however the car ran fine before the new Tbelt... Thanks yall. Edited October 23, 2010 by jaredb3000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredb3000 Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 Here's an interesting/annoying thing- the CEL is still flashing, at a steady rate (equal time between lit/not lit) of 1second. Same thing with or w/o the OBD plugged in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 I think that means everything is okay . . . but that you forgot to disconnect the test leads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredb3000 Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 Well, I'm thinking for starters I'll get MAF sensor cleaner, and put in a new PCV valve. That should set me back 10$... The flashing CEL was flashing (as mentioned above) before I connected the black ECU connectors, with no noticeable change once connected. Should I reset? From info at http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/engine.html a few months back I got a 32 and 34, so I know how the flashing light behaves... The flashing is steady, so I don't think its an 11, and it acts the same with ECU unplugged as when plugged in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredb3000 Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 (edited) Ok, grabbed a 30 second cell phone video, the sound is horrible, like a jet engine behind me about to explode... Its by no means this loud, but if you listen through, you can get an idea of the idle speed jumping around a bit- it slows towards the end there and picks back up. The video stopped right before it actually stalled. Would'nt mind some input before I go back to the T-Belt for sure. I did unplug the harness associated with the MAF, to make room when doing the valve gasket on that side. It sounds like air intake issues on carbeurated engines, perhaps I bothered the MAF... Although I had an O2 sensor code and a purge solenoid valve code for a couple months, this car was running well before recent belt/pump etc. Would a new belt exacerbate these problems? Wishful thinking perhaps... Youtube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PylD-fLggYo Also, in regards to ECU, in the past I followed this link which does not mention disconnecting test leads at all... I'll do some more research on this, as I am not sure where those are. Edited October 23, 2010 by jaredb3000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredb3000 Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 Check out the big brain on me... The last time I checked the codes, I disconnected the black connectors that look quite like the test ones, which in fact are for the key is in the ignition beeper... So it goes, the o2/solenoid codes have vanished. I know the marks were spot on, as was tooth count. Bad hydraulic tensioner adjuster perhaps? oye vey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredb3000 Posted October 24, 2010 Author Share Posted October 24, 2010 Still scratching my head, but some progress... Cleaned MAF, put in new PCV, started and maintained running w/o sluggishness- 10fold better than prior to doing this. It was idling a bit high, after accelerating a bit it sat at 1000 for a few seconds and stalled. In beginning approaching cleaning the IAC, I have drawn from the following wisdom: "The idle air control valve gets gunked up pretty easily, but its also fairly easy to clean. All you need is a can of throttle body cleaner. The idle air control valve gets air through a small hose that taps into the large air intake hose that runs from the air filter to the throttle body. With the engine off, remove the air intake hose from the throttle body open the throttle and spray all that clean and reassemble. Next, detach the small hose that leads to the IAC (right next to the throttle body) from the air intake hose. Spray throttle body cleaner down the hose until it just about drowns and reconnect it. Start the engine. You may have to open the throttle a little to get it started, and it may die a couple of times as it pulls the cleaning fluid through. I find it takes two to three cycles of drowning it in cleaner and starting the engine to get the IAC clean when its sludgy. You'll know its wokring correctly when the engine idles correctly again..." I omitted the first of these 2 steps b/c I was not positive that the very skinny (bic pen width) hose in top of the throttle body is the one mentioned above, plus its sideways so I cant see how I would get fluid to the inside of the body... Having sprayed a healthy dose of cleaner in the hose that connects to the IAC (disconnecting near the air filter from the larger air intake duct), I killed the battery trying to start it. It almost started once, turned for a while, at one point I heard a hell of a pop but no ignition... Jumper cables are ready for tomorrow morning. Just throwing it all out there, if anyone has any feedback I am all ears:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suba9792 Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 did you do the belt right?, dont worry about questions, I'm pretty new to it too. My guess is you put the belt on wrong or something.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredb3000 Posted October 24, 2010 Author Share Posted October 24, 2010 Having read, and read, and read so I would not botch the Tbelt reinstall, I have to assume that I nonetheless did not put it on correctly. Hence the head scratching- the direction is proper, the hash marks lined up at 12, and I got a 44/40.5 tooth count. What are the symptoms of a bad tensioner adjuster? I compressed it slowly, and it remained taught, and I saw no oil near the shaft... but maybe that could be the culprit Having pulled the MAF sensor housing to check air filter/make some room, I was hoping that might have contributed to this dilemma. Well, I suppose I'll redo the TBelt today and see what happens.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredb3000 Posted October 24, 2010 Author Share Posted October 24, 2010 Sooo, Timing was definitely off from where I had everything set... I'll correct and then reassemble... One thing I have noticed is that the passenger side cam pulley moves much less taught than the driver side, when moving to adjust. It was like this the first go round. Could this be an air in the valves symptom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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