Odd electrical problem - taillights blow fuse 5 - ABS fail indicator, cruise ctl etc.

[john_u]

I have a 2002 Outback 3.0 (L.L. Bean) and have a rather strange electrical problem. The indication of the problem noticed was that the taillights had stopped working. I located F5 under the dash and behind the little pull out drawer and replaced it. At first I thought all was well until I turned off the car and the taillights stayed on. I am not sure if I had turned on the parking light when I was looking for the initial problem or if having somehow accidentally turned on the parking lights and leaving them on had caused the fuse to blow (and other subsequent problems). It took me a while to figure out that the parking light switch was on. I actually burned out 2 more fuses (both 10 amp #5s) and drained my battery before I found the "virgin" switch. I felt like a fool, but relieved to get the lights off.

 

The relief did not last long. I found that the fuse #5 was still blowing if the headlights or parking lights were turned on for more than about 15 minutes. Soon I was even more aggravated to find that every time I turned on the headlights or parking lights the ABS problem indicator light would come on and stay on until the car is restarted. Another related problem - the cruise control stops working every time the headlights or parking lights are activated. The cruise control does work again immediately after turning off the head lights and/or parking lights. I readily started to find other odd problems... If the headlights are off the indicator on the Stereo and the climate control are very bright and dim if the brake is applied. The dim/bright control for these does not work at all if the headlights are off. If the headlights are on, these indicators work normally. If the transmission is in park and the headlights are off while the brake is applied a loud click sound can be heard that seems to come from behind the passengers side of the dash (as the aforementioned indicator lights dim). If the transmission is in gear the click can not be heard when engaging the brake (the emergency brake does not cause this same dimming of lights or click). When the headlights are on and a turn signal is initiated the ABS light dims with the blinking of the turn signal.

 

I thought with all of these problems and considering that I had drained my battery recently, my initial suspicion was that all of these problems were being caused by a low voltage problem. First suspect was the battery. I had purchased this car from a used car dealer about a month and a half ago, so I was not sure how old the battery was. I looked at it to see if it had any stickers indicating it's age. The battery looked to be pretty old. The stickers that told its brand and rating were even missing, there was absolutely no indication of its purchase date. I measured the voltage with all systems off - 12.5 volts (a bit low). I replaced it with a new one figuring that it could probably use a new one anyway. All the problems remained.

 

Still assuming that there may be a low voltage or voltage regulation problem I took the car to a local parts shop that claims to run free electrical checks. He load tested it and said that the alternator was not providing an adequate supply. I asked if it could be the voltage regulator and he told me that it is built into the alternator. I replaced it. All problems still remain.

 

I started looking for a short. First I deduced that the common denominators between turning on the parking lights and turning on the headlights was the taillights and front marker lights (it is interesting to note that if the headlights are turned completely off on this model the headlights are still dimly illuminated though taillights and marker lights are off). I disconnected the connectors going to the taillight assemblies. - The ABS light did not come on when I start the car!

 

I attempted to see which side the short was on by alternately connecting the assemblies. Oddly enough if either one is connected the ABS light comes on. I removed the assemblies and inspected them for shorts. None found. I removed the bulbs and inspected them for crossed elements. None found. The only irregularity I found was that the connections (solder) was worn down. I replaced them. This did not fix the problem either. I thought if it was a load problem then removing the front marker lights should create the same load as removing both taillights so I removed them. The ABS light stayed on (unlike removing both taillights). I inspected their sockets and elements and reinstalled them.

 

It seems very odd to me that a short in the wiring to the taillights would not cause the same condition with the bulbs in as with them out. It seems even odder that either bulb in causes the anomalous condition, yet if both are out the problem goes away (of coarse I need my taillights though). I also checked my license plate lights (no apparent problems) and I do not have a trailer hitch or connector.

 

Has anyone had this problem? Any ideas/educated guesses? Could this be caused by the Running Light Control Module? Anyone know were it is located?

Please Help!

[OB99W]

[...]I do not have a trailer hitch or connector.[...]

Some of the weird behavior you've noticed (excessively bright/dim lamps under certain conditions, etc.) is probably due to "back-feeding" of current.

 

Since the fuse is taking 15 minutes to blow, obviously the current being drawn is not much over the rated 10 amps. You're on target with the lamp circuits you've looked at so far. However, "I do not have a trailer hitch or connector." should be reconsidered. It's not uncommon for trailer connectors to get damaged or corroded, and they do exist (but can be hard to locate).

 

See http://www.etrailer.com/question-6780.html .

[john_u]

OB99W,

 

Thank you for your quick reply. I never did find a connector for the trailer hitch (which turns out to be on a different fuse - so there must be one), but while looking for it I found the connector for the electronics in the rear door (hatch). I disconnected it and the problem went away. Then I realized I had made an obvious over site. I never checked the taillights in the hatch. I pulled them out and the contacts had melted almost together, so much so they were making contact with each other and shorting (obviously with some resistance or they and the other lights would have not worked at all and the fuse would have blown immediately). Both of the lights had done this. I guess that when I initially accidentally turned on the parking lights, they stayed on so long they got very hot and melted the solder contacts. I feel like a fool again, but at least I found and fixed the problem. I figure the battery needed to be replaced anyway and according to the test at the parts store the alternator was going out as well (at one time the car had a major oil leak and oil had saturated it). I guess I found and cured these problems along the way. Plus, I learned how to change the belt while replacing the alternator. So though I spent more than I needed now (in time and money), I think in the long run it all was well invested.

 

If any one knows where I can find the connector for the trailer lights let me know. This is a mod I want to eventually add. Also, if you know a good hitch kit let me know. I just need something that can tow a snowmobile trailer or waterski.

[OB99W]

Congrats on finding and fixing the problem.

 

It wouldn't be typical for the lamps' solder to get hot enough to melt, no matter how long the parking lights were on. Some corrosion could increase contact resistance, which can cause abnormal heat. However, I'd suggest you verify that the lamp type numbers are correct, in case at some time they were replaced with incorrect (higher candlepower) ones. Also, some "cheap" lamps don't meet spec, even if supposedly the correct type.

[Olnick]

I feel like a fool again . . . .

 

 

Why? You did the smartest thing you could do--you jumped on here and asked for help! Then someone with some knowledge & experience stepped up and offered input (thanks again, OB99W!) so you could solve the problem.

 

Happens everyday on the USMB . . . that's why we love this place!

 

Welcome aboard, john_u!

[OB99W]

If anyone has a problem with fuse 5 blowing on a 2000 Legacy, see the attachment.

[Gloyale]

This type of problem can also happen if a Single pole bulb (turnsignal) is installed into a Double pole socket (tail/brakes). The single pole bridges the 2 circuits, and the tailights backfeed when you hit the brakes.

 

the offset pins on a double pole bulb should prevent this, but it still happens sometimes.

[Suzam]

OB99W,

 

 

...

If any one knows where I can find the connector for the trailer lights let me know. This is a mod I want to eventually add. Also, if you know a good hitch kit let me know. I just need something that can tow a snowmobile trailer or waterski.

 

I put a hidden-hitch on my 01 OBW about 7 years ago that works well. Drawtight seems to be a good quality also.

 

In '01 the plug for the trailer lights is in the rear fender on the passenger side. I have to remove the small carpet board and the black spacer on that side to get to it. It took some fishing around to get it. Some members have said that the '02 models plug is on the driver's side in roughly the same place as the '01 is on the passenger side. Basically between the rear and the wheel well in the fender.

[john_u]

Thank you Suzam, That is the best description I have received so far. I will look again tomorrow.

 

In case anyone is curious I took another look at the bulbs and they do not have any markings on them to indicate what brand they are (no markings at all - not even the bulb type). So I guess they are not GE, Sylvania or Phillips. Probably some very cheap bulbs the last owner put in. I took a picture of them to show the contacts, but could not figure out how to post them. I am planning to put in some LED bulbs soon. I just tried some that I bought from Kragen (O'Reilly), but though they were brighter as parking lights, they were not as bright as brake lights compared to standard Sylvania bulbs. The difference between the brightness as a parking light and brake light was so small it would be likely that someone behind you might not notice that you hit your brake. O'Reilly's was good about taking them back though.

[Suzam]

It's not unlikely that the unmarked bulbs are originals. I have only replaced one H1 headlight on my '01 since it was purchased new.