brat spring questions

[Yo'J]

So, I know I can use rx springs on my brat but I cant seem to find any info on spring rate differences between the brat and say a ea82 wagon. Would an ea82 wagon spring work and fit? Whats the spring rate for a brat vs ea81 wagon? I have monstarus chart but there isnt a 'brat' listing.

 

I got my new gr2s and would like a stiffer front for the ej thats in the brat and maybe another half inch or little more to level it out. I wont be lifting the brat and I dont really want to lower it either. Rx stuff seems tough to find. I've been through all the searchs and the few things I haven't found are these.

 

Worse case scenario...I have new struts. I feel like I should know this too, tempo springs fit on the ea82 but not an ea81? But rx does? Tempos would be too stiff for an ea81? Miata stuff is for the rears only? and usually lowers ride height, Right?

[renob123]

I'm not sure if this will be helpful, and I'm pretty sure it won't answer any of your questions, but here's what my latest iteration is:

 

I'm running 2WD KYB struts up front with RX springs. This gives me more stiffness (around 30 pounds/inch more, IIRC) and keeps it around the same height. 2WD struts are about 2 inches shorter, and the RX springs raise it about 1.5-2 inches. I didn't notice a change in height, but I've noticed that a few of the speed bumps and potholes I hit regularly feel a bit better.

 

I'd be hesitant to run anything more than, say, 200lbs/in on stock struts. I've read that they can't handle that much spring. Fortunately, the RX springs are like 180 or so, so I'm safe for now.

 

Jacob

[Yo'J]

Hey thanks! That is very helpful actually. I'm trying to figure out my options and of course, the best route to follow.

[renob123]

Hey thanks! That is very helpful actually. I'm trying to figure out my options and of course' date=' the best route to follow.[/quote']

 

Oh, one more thing. Subruise was selling some EA82 turbo springs a while ago. I'd search and see if they would do what you want.

 

Jacob

[Yo'J]

Hmmm how difficult would it be to put rear ea82 stuff on a ea81.....?

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=75637&highlight=spring+rate

 

Wouldn't the turbo stuff lower the car?

[renob123]

Hmmm how difficult would it be to put rear ea82 stuff on a ea81.....?

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=75637&highlight=spring+rate

 

Wouldn't the turbo stuff lower the car?

 

EA81 turbo springs will drop the front a bit. EA82 turbo springs are like my RX springs, and they'll raise the front a bit.

 

People with lifted EA81s have put EA82 stuff on the rear. It makes the rear stiff and tall.

 

Jacob

[Yo'J]

I've got ea82 sedan stuff on the back of my lifted ea81 wagon but I got a set of ea82 wagon rears in the drive now. I was wondering about putting them on the front of the brat. 194lb/in. compared to 134lb/in. I just don't know how easily they could be modded to fit. Ea82 sedan rear springs are 159lb/in compared to 157lb/in for the rx. Now lengths and travel I cant find a thing on or how to mount them. I do know the sedan struts are shorter than the wagon and I'll measure the springs today.

 

How tough is the mounting of the ea82 spring on an ea81 strut?

[renob123]

I've got ea82 sedan stuff on the back of my lifted ea81 wagon but I got a set of ea82 wagon rears in the drive now. I was wondering about putting them on the front of the brat. 194lb/in. compared to 134lb/in. I just don't know how easily they could be modded to fit. Ea82 sedan rear springs are 159lb/in compared to 157lb/in for the rx. Now lengths and travel I cant find a thing on or how to mount them. I do know the sedan struts are shorter than the wagon and I'll measure the springs today.

 

How tough is the mounting of the ea82 spring on an ea81 strut?

 

Oh, gotcha. I have no idea about mounting rear EA82 stuff on the front of an EA81.

 

Putting an EA82 spring on an EA81 strut is the same as putting a stock EA81 spring on an EA81 strut if you have an ok spring compressor.

 

Jacob

[Yo'J]

Really, they fit....I just took a quick look at the ea82 rears and the unmounted wagon strut, as it sits complete, the spring is 11.5" and the mounted on the car, sedan one is 9". Not looking too good for squeezing on a ea81 front thats 7" mounted. I'm betting though the ea82 vs the ea81 fronts are quite close to the same coefficient.

 

On Monstarus chart the ea82 wagon fronts are 146lb/in compared to 134lb/in. IF the ea81s are indeed 134lb/in which is a number I read in a four yr old post, that might be an available way to go.

[renob123]

Really' date=' they fit....I just took a quick look at the ea82 rears and the unmounted wagon strut, as it sits complete, the spring is 11.5" and the mounted on the car, sedan one is 9". Not looking too good for squeezing on a ea81 front thats 7" mounted. I'm betting though the ea82 vs the ea81 fronts are quite close to the same coefficient.

 

On Monstarus chart the ea82 wagon fronts are 146lb/in compared to 134lb/in. IF the ea81s are indeed 134lb/in which is a number I read in a four yr old post, that might be an available way to go.[/quote']

 

Sorry, I'm supposed to be working, so I guess I'm not totally following. I was talking about EA82 fronts going onto EA81 front struts. That's no problem. I'd be very, very careful with doing a EA82 rear->EA81 front swap.

 

Jacob

[GeneralDisorder]

EA82 rear springs are WAY smaller diameter than EA front springs. I doubt anything would swap between the two.

 

As far as stiffer but same height - I would fab up some mounts for an air-shock.

 

GD

[Yo'J]

I saw a post by Phizinza where he claimed to have ea82 rears on his old ea81. In the post I posted.

 

I havent found an air shock part number that would work. Less than $4k. You got one? I can fab mounts. I cant change the shape of the world, but small fab work I can do. I have the ej compressor, I almost have all the parts for the air and oiler.

 

Heck, as far as I'm concerned a few extra pounds of spring force on an ea81<ej swap 'must' be mandatory, for safety's sake if nothing else. I'm not just gonna look at it.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Yo'J

[Gloyale]

I saw a post by Phizinza where he claimed to have ea82 rears on his old ea81. In the post I posted.

 

 

I think he put EA82 Rears on the back of his EA81.

 

I did the same thing. My Torsions kept sagging more and more (reclocked twice) and additionally' date=' the rear mount holes for the torsion tube where little by little being crushed up into the unibody rail whenever I hit a large bump.

 

So I fabbed an adapter bracket to mount the EA82 coilover to the EA81 body. De-clocked the torsion again so there is just a little spring from it, but most of the weight is taken by the coilovers. Additionally they limit the uptravel so I don't hyper-extend axles.

 

[img']http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb29/Gloyale/P10100152.jpg[/img]

 

And the Crushing.....I added the plate to spread the load. But it kept crushing more because under load (big hit, bump, drop), that bolt hole takes all the rotational resitance of the torsion tube. Now with the coilaver that force is transfered to the wheel wells via the shock mount. Highly recommend this mod.

 

 

Again though, this is Rear EA82s on the Rear of an EA81.

 

To get more spring in the front of and EA81, use EA82 4wd wagon springs, or RX springs....either is an upgrade.

[renob123]

I saw a post by Phizinza where he claimed to have ea82 rears on his old ea81. In the post I posted.

 

I havent found an air shock part number that would work. Less than $4k. You got one? I can fab mounts. I cant change the shape of the world' date=' but small fab work I can do. I have the ej compressor, I almost have all the parts for the air and oiler.

 

Heck, as far as I'm concerned a few extra pounds of spring force on an ea81<ej swap 'must' be mandatory, for safety's sake if nothing else. I'm not just gonna look at it.[/quote']

 

Gloyale: Was that on a lifted car?

 

Yeah, Phizinza definitely said EA82 rears on EA81 fronts in that post, but from his website, it looks like Gloyale's interpretation is correct.

 

If you're clever, you can find air shocks for less than $100/pair that will bolt up. They'll change your suspension geometry, though, in possibly a bad way. Getting air shocks for less than $100/pair that won't eff up your geometry will take some custom work.

 

Jacob

[Gloyale]

Gloyale: Was that on a lifted car?

 

 

Jacob

 

Yeah, 6 in.

 

There is another example of it done to a non-lifted car with a different bracket design in the USRM.

 

Note* requires quite a bit of bashing to make room for the spring to clear the body. BFH required.

[Yo'J]

O.K. maybe Phizinza meant the rear...I got them there ea82 rears on my wagon, I don't want them on the brat. I'm just worried about the front.

 

So, 87 brat....Is the spring rate 134lb/in? I cant find verification anywhere I've looked.

 

If so, I'm gonna try the ea82 wagon front springs as they are a few pounds more. Unless some RX springs magically appear available. If not, I might try to get the air strut but that will be a while out, less moving parts the better as well.

 

Interesting thoughts about the air struts.....ea81s eat axles. You would probabaly have to convert to an ea82 crossmember (more room)and/or lift it at the strut tops to keep some semblance of correct camber. But, it would be fun with 4 corner controls. It would be a toy and not really a car for transportation then. I do hear the cheap ones overheat and blow out easily during hard driving. I havent seen any that would fit a 5" hole, the standard ones say 6" but run out to 7"-8" in girth.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Yo'J

[renob123]

O.K. maybe Phizinza meant the rear...I got them there ea82 rears on my wagon' date=' I don't want them on the brat. I'm just worried about the front.

 

So, 87 brat....Is the spring rate 134lb/in? I cant find verification anywhere I've looked.

 

If so, I'm gonna try the ea82 wagon front springs as they are a few pounds more. Unless some RX springs magically appear available. If not, I might try to get the air strut but that will be a while out, less moving parts the better as well.

 

Interesting thoughts about the air struts.....ea81s eat axles. You would probabaly have to convert to an ea82 crossmember (more room)and/or lift it at the strut tops to keep some semblance of correct camber. But, it would be fun with 4 corner controls. It would be a toy and not really a car for transportation then. I do hear the cheap ones overheat and blow out easily during hard driving. I havent seen any that would fit a 5" hole, the standard ones say 6" but run out to 7"-8" in girth.[/quote']

 

Yo'j, no offense, but you're going to make my head explode with the front/rear switching in this thread:lol:

 

I was talking air shocks for the rear. It's not easy to change the rear spring rate. The front is easy...you just get springs with the rate that you want. The front's stock geometry will stay pretty much the same with the setup from my first post here. EA82 wagon springs would do the same. They're very close to the RX spring rate.

 

Your '87 Brat spring rate sounds correct from my research. If you could find them, turbo Brat springs would also bump up the rate close to that of an RX spring, but it would also drop the front a bit.

 

If you're doing this work to handle the power of an EJ swap, what I've found is that the front is at least drivable in stock form. Under acceleration, though, the rear squats down too much, and the front loses a lot of traction. I don't want to mess with the rake too much, so that leaves me with trying to stiffen the rear.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Jacob

[Yo'J]

Hey, no offence taken, I was under the assumption that we couldn't get ea aftermarket springs. I called a few spring shops a couple of yrs ago who cold shouldered me just about and said "We don't make...those!" I didn't call ground control and the other high end one, king. I've only been after fixing my saggy front. (Well and making the smoke machine run right after it now idles right. thanks Gloyale....I'll post later)

 

I've always wanted full air suspension in a subie, by the way, but its way out of my league. Soobs are so light, it would be so fun. Not practical at all. I've looked into it a little. With a full sized system in an ea81, do you think you could fully "bunny hop"? I think maybe close.....

[renob123]

Hey' date=' no offence taken, I was under the assumption that we couldn't get ea aftermarket springs. I called a few spring shops a couple of yrs ago who cold shouldered me just about and said "We don't make...those!" I didn't call ground control and the other high end one, king. I've only been after fixing my saggy front. (Well and making the smoke machine run right after it now idles right. thanks Gloyale....I'll post later)

 

I've always wanted full air suspension in a subie, by the way, but its way out of my league. Soobs are so light, it would be so fun. Not practical at all. I've looked into it a little. With a full sized system in an ea81, do you think you could fully "bunny hop"? I think maybe close.....[/quote']

 

Yeah, I got the cold shoulder from a lot of the places as well. Barrett Dash at allwheelsdriven expressed some interest in getting some bent up. Also, I know that cmiller on here got some fancy springs from Paul Eklund at Primitive for his EA82. They were from King, and they didn't fit the price and dimensions I had in mind, so I opted for the RX springs.

 

As for making it hop, from what I've noticed since the Frankenmotor swap, these "frames" probably wouldn't last long. Mine started creaking a lot, and it feels like it's going to break in half or something.

 

Jacob

[Yo'J]

Oooooo! Got a little bit of power there do ya, Jacob? I know some places sell frame stiffeners for rally cars but I'd bet not for our older gens. I wonder what one could do about that besides a full remake of the car. I was thinking about caging the back of my wagon since it has a bent b-pillar but I really don't know what would need/should be done. Now, Jackson Rally on the other hand....If I walked into that shop for a day, I'd never stop asking questions!

 

Well anyway, How are the RX springs to drive on your car? Could you use a stiffer spring or is it just perfect for road use or too stiff. I'm not going rally style or anything so I'm not wanting to make it too stiff, I want it to handle well, but not like its on rails. Comfortable and safe to play!

 

Hey Gloyale, I like your top mount for your rear springs! Did you remake the whole strut top? I was thinking of remaking mine out of L stock but I'm afraid of having it break. The way I have mine setup I'm just counting on bolts not shearing off, I'm confident there but I would like to tuck it closer to the body. I get a little bit of tire rub on occasion when I get a little happy in the car.

[renob123]

Oooooo! Got a little bit of power there do ya' date=' Jacob? I know some places sell frame stiffeners for rally cars but I'd bet not for our older gens. I wonder what one could do about that besides a full remake of the car. I was thinking about caging the back of my wagon since it has a bent b-pillar but I really don't know what would need/should be done. Now, Jackson Rally on the other hand....If I walked into that shop for a day, I'd never stop asking questions!

 

Well anyway, How are the RX springs to drive on your car? Could you use a stiffer spring or is it just perfect for road use or too stiff. I'm not going rally style or anything so I'm not wanting to make it too stiff, I want it to handle well, but not like its on rails. Comfortable and safe to play!

 

Hey Gloyale, I like your top mount for your rear springs! Did you remake the whole strut top? I was thinking of remaking mine out of L stock but I'm afraid of having it break. The way I have mine setup I'm just counting on bolts not shearing off, I'm confident there but I would like to tuck it closer to the body. I get a little bit of tire rub on occasion when I get a little happy in the car.[/quote']

 

Yeah, some reinforcing is in the plans for later, but I don't think it's as important as some of the other stuff I'm working on/considering.

 

I doubt the RX springs are enough for rallyx, but I'm not sure how much stiffer I can go with GR2 struts. I also have an Addco front swaybar to try to help. I'd say for the street, that setup is adequate. It may even be ok for rallyx once I stiffen up the rear.

 

Jacob

[Gloyale]

Hey Gloyale' date=' I like your top mount for your rear springs! Did you remake the whole strut top? I was thinking of remaking mine out of L stock but I'm afraid of having it break. The way I have mine setup I'm just counting on bolts not shearing off, I'm confident there but I would like to tuck it closer to the body. I get a little bit of tire rub on occasion when I get a little happy in the car.[/quote']

 

It's a factory EA82 mount, spun around like the guys do for the 2" EA82 lifts.

 

Brackets were super easy to make....I took 1" angle, Drilled holes in the ends for bolts, cut some "v" shaped slots in the sides where I wanted the bend, then heated and bent, each one about 45 degrees. After the bends, I mounted it all up to the body and made adjustments by prying and hammering, until it was all in there square. Then I welded up the seams, where the "v"s where now bent toghether, and it was done.

[coronan]

I'm getting lost in the alphabet soup. I've been reading for a few hours yesterday and today.

 

I have an Brat EA81 Factory turbo. It looks like the brat is special and got some more ride height than other cars.

I'm looking about 1" lift to fix my the tire rubbing after installing 205/70/15s.

 

What springs will lift / lower the car?

 

EA82 4wd ?

EA82 2wd ?

EA82 Wagon?

XT?

RX?

EJ?

Toyota?

Honda?

VW Golf?

 

I have read all these being used but without the effect on ride height.

 

Is it true EA82 struts have more travel?

 

A lot of folks mention what is working for them but neglect how much lift they got with that setup. Maybe folks can share their hub to fender clearance. Unless you have trimmed your fenders.

 

Thanks!

Edited June 10, 2016 by coronan