93 legacy making tapping sound

[J.T.R]

recently my 93 legacy has been making a tapping sound from the engine. it started out very slight and only once in a great while but lately it has gotten louder and happens almost the entire time the car is running. I was told that it is a lifter and that I might need to adjust it some how. any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated. thanks

[OB99W]

A '93 has hydraulic lash adjusters ("lifters") -- there are no adjustments.

See http://endwrench.com/pdf/engine/FtEngineOverhaulSp98.pdf

for servicing information and some diagnosis of noise.

 

Also, the screws holding the back plate of the oil pump can loosen,

resulting in lessened oil delivery and valve train noise.

[Olnick]

How "clean" is your oil? Sometimes valve tick is caused by a bit of gunk in the oil passages.

 

You might try adding a small bottle of MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) to your crankcase and drive the car as normal for 100 miles or so. Then do an oil change with fresh oil and a quality filter.

 

Good luck.

[Suba9792]

Replace one QT of oil with 1 QT of MMO, replace the filter as well, drive the car for 100-500miles, I'd use 10w30 or 40?, since MMO is so thin, you don't want to have too thin of oil for proper lube. After you run it for X amount of miles, drain it, check all your seals, new oil filter(WIX) and drop in some 5w30, I've seen this work many of times, even worked for me once, but if it doesn't either wait till she goes, or just pull the motor and replace the lifters(never done that myself so I'd have no idea)

[ShagginWagon]

I have the same problem until my oil is warmed up. My dad told when I asked him about those products that they're crap and to put some power punch in there. I'm going to try it when I get paid, he said it comes in a purple bottle I believe.. He said that that is the best stuff I could use and he said it would work forsure. I'll let u know how it goes if u want me to try it first. I get paid on Monday so I will do it sometime next week.

[GeneralDisorder]

Power Punch? WTF is that? What qualifications does your dad have and has he ever worked on a Subaru or know anything about oil composition or lubrication properties?

 

MMO, Rislone, etc are fine products - but in essence they are ATF or very close relatives of same with a much higher price tag. ATF is a high-quality SAE 10 oil. It's very high in detergents and is rated for high-pressure applications (gears). Anything that MMO, Seafoam, Rislone, etc will do - ATF will do just as well and considereably cheaper.

 

If you a have a problem with oil delivery then FIX IT - check the oil pump (backing plate) and seal, replace worn out lifters, etc. Repair in a bottle is just going to cause problems. There should be nothing but OIL in your oil. An occasional ATF flush (run 20 to 30 minutes at idle with ATF) is alright to clean out some of the gunk that will just foul your new oil.....but otherwise just run straight, clean oil.

 

All these additives that people talk about are just soaking up the money from your wallet. Nothing more. They will not effect a lasting, permanent repair.

 

If the oil pump is ok (this should be checked first) then you can simply convert to solid lifters from a '97+ EJ22, etc. Then you don't have to bother with replacing lifters and the associated expense.

 

GD

Edited October 30, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[ShagginWagon]

My dad works hand n hand with an engineer that has fabricated everything in and out of the car from the ground up, including the engine. He takes first everytime he takes it to the tracks. He has takin it to the DMV and had to prove to them with his calculations to make it street legal. He also held the world record for the quarter mile in the 60's. The build all kinds of stuff including hydro power plants so they have to know what the best lubrication that is on the market. The have also test every kind of oil u can get including quarts of oil thats over$100 a bottle. They know wut the best stuff is period. Especially for your wallet. Sum of us aren't cheap ********************* who question people for stupid reasons and think they know what's best when they haven't tested ************. Some of want wut is realy gonna help our cars so they can last for a long time.. That's why I have 300 thousand miles on my car and it still runs like a champ. I believe if anyone knew about lubrication here it would be my dad that has tested oils for their lubricating properties so before u go and run ur mouth about sticking ATF like a cheap mechanic in ur oil. Do some actualy testing on the stuff so u know what's best. I didn't say that it's the only thing that wouldnwork or what the best stuff is, and if u can't afford a $10 bottle for something that's worth a lot more... That's just sad. I don't appreciate the way u throw ur oppinions around so loosly.. I wasn't rude at all and I didn't question anyones opinions or facts.. I was just letting someone know what would realy help them out from what I would call a seasoned proffesional.

[GeneralDisorder]

I see.

 

Good luck with that.

 

Riddle me this Batman - if this stuff makes sunshine fly out of my rump roast then why isn't it already included in the oil additive packages of all the major engine oil suppliers or being reccomended by the manufacturer's of engines?

 

Answer (in case you really are that dense): Because thousands of engineers with more time, money, and resources than you, your father, or his engineer pal put together (x100) have determined that it's either uneccesary or detrimental.

 

Gamble with your own engine - telling people here to put bottles of "wrench in a can" in their engine is irresponsible.

 

As far as flushing with ATF - I only reccomend that on the dirtiest, nastiest engines. And frankly it's usually probably a "too little, too late" type of deal. It's often better to just let it blow apart and replace it instead. But it makes people feel better, doesn't cause any damage running it a few minutes at idle under no load, and sometimes making people feel good about something is important. It usually comes out VERY black compared to how it went in and will often quiet lifters for a time. It is not a permanent fix - mostly it's a "feel good about cleaning my engine" type of deal.

 

GD

[ShagginWagon]

Ok joker

Edited October 30, 2010 by ShagginWagon

[Olnick]

My dad told when I asked him about those products that they're crap . . . .

 

 

Appreciate your input, ShagginWagon. But perhaps your dad should be more diplomatic in his description of products he doesn't happen to believe in.

 

Personally, I dislike the idea of any crankcase additive. And I'm well aware that there is no such thing as a "miracle cure in a bottle."

 

But when a product, in this case MMO, accomplishes what I intend it to and what I need it to, then I don't consider it to be crap.

 

Kapish?

[ShagginWagon]

Are u an engineer.. Didn't think so.. Have ever personally talked to one or one that has ever tested any of this stuff.. Didn't think so.. Did I say it was liquid wrench in a can didn't think so.. Did u know what the stuff I was talking about was didn't think so.. Do u know what ur talking about in comparison to what I was didn't think so.. How many engineers that are out there know about using proper lubricating adgents? Probably more than ur little brain could even think of.. It doesn't matter how long or even if your car is just idleing, breaking up the crap that's in ur engine can do damage to any parts in ther. They could get stuck in moving parts and so on. The crap that your cleaning out of ur engine iis not good for lubricating.. Did I say not to do it.. No.. Did I say that cleaning the crud out of ur car wouldn't benifit ur car didn't think so.. And if u read my post, I didn't tell him to put it in his car.. I said that he could try it if he wanted.. I also said that I will do it first and tell him if I feel it's worth it.. U sound like one of those guys that says that oil will never break down, only the additives will and u can throw a pack of additives in ur oil and ur just fine.. Not to smart of a person if u ask me.. I don't care if u are a mechanic or if u went to school for anything that has to do with mechanics or if it's just ur opinion about stuff. Until u test the product in every way u can in and out of an engine or know some on that knows what they are doin proffesionaly, don't blow smoke up peoples rump roast. U obviously are a very closed minded person. I'm not the one telling people to stick random stuff in there car like you. I simply said that they could try it if the want or if they don't want to that's fine by me, but i was just giving them some very usefull information from a very very seasoned and proffesional engineer with billions of dollars and a love for cars, not working for a company trying to make money off of people that don't know any better and are trying to save as much money as they can to make a dollar. Like I said stop being so rude.. I'm not the one telling people that they should use something just because it's cheaper and will do about the same thing as other stuff, I'm simply letting them know of something else that they can use for what it's made for.

[ShagginWagon]

Appreciate your input, ShagginWagon. But perhaps your dad should be more diplomatic in his description of products he doesn't happen to believe in.

 

Personally, I dislike the idea of any crankcase additive. And I'm well aware that there is no such thing as a "miracle cure in a bottle."

 

But when a product, in this case MMO, accomplishes what I intend it to and what I need it to, then I don't consider it to be crap.

 

Kapish?

 

He never said he doesn't believe in it.. It can just mess stuff up more than it can help sometimes according to him.. Lime I said he didn't say not to use it but if u want to get a better product to help the litters from clicking use power punch

[ShagginWagon]

ThiS is why it would make ur litters stop clicking

 

POWER PUNCH OIL SUPPLEMENTS***use the latest in Petroleum Polymer technology to increase the film strength of any oil. This stronger oil film is much harder to penetrate under load and heat and therefore prevents metal-to-metal contact, which causes wear, heat and wasted horsepower. Less wear and heat means much longer life for both the equipment and the oil. The high strength oil film also cushions the metal parts to provide quieter operation because shock loads are dampened. POWER PUNCH also stabilizes the viscosity of oil during high load or temperature operation to prevent breakdown and the creation of sludge.

 

POWER PUNCH used in an engine***provides a better surface for sealing of piston rings and therefore more power available at the crankshaft. Higher compression, less contamination and lower heat all lead to more power, greater efficiency and lower emissions. Contamination of the oil by combustion products is also significantly reduced and this gives cleaner and longer lasting oil.

When you first start your engine all the oil is in the oil pan - unless you use POWER PUNCH! With the famous POWER PUNCH clinging power a protective film of oil remains adhered to your engine's critical parts - even if it sits for a long time. This film provides corrosion protection until you start your engine and lubrication until your engine's oil pressure is established.

 

In any type of equipment, prevention of oil leaks depends upon flexible seals as well as the film strength of the oil. POWER PUNCH keeps seals pliable and it's stronger film assists in keeping your garage floor clean and the oil where it should be … in your equipment. Less oil lost is money saved.

 

Hydraulic systems***such as those in tractors, lift systems, automatic transmissions and power steering can also benefit from the qualities of POWER PUNCH. Adding approximately 10% POWER PUNCH will provide cooler operation, less wear, smoother control and control leaks. Substantially longer equipment life can result with less maintenance necessary and down time.

[ShagginWagon]

I also believe that mmo is great stuff personaly. If u want to clean out ur engine use it. If u don't want to chance even the slightest chance messing ur engine up by breaking up all that crud that's in there and having the chances of that stuff causing more damage than by having it there, use power punch.

 

I personaly make sure to change my oil regularly and hotrod my car every once in a while to ensure everything burns out and my engine is clean. Lime I said I have 300 thousand miles on my engine

[GeneralDisorder]

You got anything but a pile of marking hype written by people with degree's in business?

 

That old saying "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" applies perfectly here. If someone wants to render a USEFUL opinion, he/she should go to college, complete at least an engineering degree, and learn about the fundamentals of research and data collection - such as what constitutes valid conclusions, what constitutes unsubstantiated assumptions that can't be backed up with hard data, what constitutes statistically significant data versus random variation or coincidence, what constitutes real hard data versus unverified "impressions", what constitutes research bias and how to avoid it, etc.

 

After completing such an education, he/she probably won't be thinking the same way anymore... but if he/she still wants to maintain the same opinion, then at least he/she can do so intelligently and may seek some hard data to back up their point of view. Science, at its essence, is a set of rules designed to force us to reason logically, to remove or minimize personal bias, inaccurate assumptions, and all the other things that the average person usually does wrong when trying to think about a problem.

 

Most people simply aren't logical or rational to the degree that science demands, unless trained extensively to think that way... so incorrect conclusions are commonplace, often based on little or no evidence other than what that person wants to think is important. THAT is the essential problem behind many "debates" about subjects such as synthetic oils, oil additives, and everything else that falls into "repair in a bottle" type of discussion.

 

Anecdotal "evidence" by untrained observers is, of course, completely useless and means nothing.

 

You are telling people to put XYZ into their crankcase and have yet to show any evidence that this is in any way useful, while I am advocating the use of precisely what the ENGINEERS said to use in the first place. It is YOU who is untrained and completely biased due to the opinion of your father. I don't see him on this board with any evidence of anything at all nor do I see any actual real-world unbiased testing of this Power Punch stuff - neither here not on their own site. There's a video of some dude whipping some oil like he's making meringue . Sorry but that's snake-oil sales tactics at it's finest.

 

As far as being an engineer - that's just a peice of paper that proves you can sit in a class and listen to somone else's opinions on how the world works. They can fill you with information - but they can't teach you to think for yourself. Information is nearly free - a library card and $20 in late fee's will get you just as much as any degree.

 

Why should I listen to someone that can't spell, punctuate, write out a clear thought process, or come to his own conclusions without making a distinction between truth, opinion, and meaningless marketing hype..... and/or isn't interested in spending the time on this discussion to do any of those things?

 

GD

[ShagginWagon]

Sorry JOKER that I am typing on an iPod that is 1/10 of ur keyboard and don't like to type out every letter of every word. Honestly ur a waste of my time, I wasn't even talking to u in the first place and I said that nobody has to do anything I was simply giving knowledge that can't be learned from a text book from someone that has years and years of hands on expeirence, like I said they have tested these products physically. My dad wouldn't even waste his time trying to give his knowledge to someone as ignorant as u.

All I did was get the info from the website to show what the website said about the product so that people could know what it was, not to try to prove anything. Like I said cheap mechanic that is an a hole. You don't even know what the product I'm talking about is or u would call it fix it in a bottle, all it does is lubricate. The product that u are talking about is more of a fix it in a bottle. Why are u such a rude person. Someones on their blood rag this month. Take a midol.

[GeneralDisorder]

It is clearly you who is ignorant. Here's why:

 

1. Expecting people to take any kind of reccomendation from you seriously is ignorant - you have no reputation here.

 

2. You speak of second-hand glowing reports of success with a product that you personally have not tried out - yet you defend it as if it's a religious tenant. 99% of the people on this earth share the same religion as their parents - why do you suppose that is? Yep - Ignorance.

 

3. You make ludicrous statements such as "all it does is lubricate". Yeah - so does KY and Astroglide - but I wouldn't expect you to know much of either of those . The properties of engine oils are a *little* more complex than that. Again - ignorance.

 

4. You seem to think you have agitated me in some way (or that I'm bloated!? .... how quaint - attacking my gender! Well done kid!). Nothing could be farther from the truth. I am simply protecting the members here by providing counter-point to your proselytizing. It's of little concern to me what *you* think - I'm not trying to change your opinion - merely to show everyone else how ignorant you are being.

 

5. You claim it's been tested, proven, etc. But where is the data? You claim something you cannot (evidently) prove to me yet you insist it's true. The mark of ignorance is strong - I ask for proof - yet nothing is given. It is like talking to a child (which I'm sure is not far off).

 

GD

Edited October 31, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[ShagginWagon]

I'm sorry if I have affended ur gender. I didn't know that u where a women, I was just using that as a figure of speech. I don't feel like I need to prove anything To u with any proof I was just giving information about something. Like I said before, I don't care if someone uses it or anything else for that matter(I don't think u have used it so don't knock somethingn u haven't tried, u hadn't even heard of it to know if it works or not, I do). I wasnt defending anything but wut u were cutting down, my father and I, like u still continue to do in every post u have posted. Stop hijacking someones thread to cut people down. And just because I use the word father means I am a child? I'm probably older and more mature than u are.. Even if u are 50 I'm probably still more mature.. I didnt start debating over sumthing pointless and start making rude comments about people until it was done to me.. I do think that I got under ur skin other wise u wouldn't have attacked. Sorry for arguing about pointless stuff on this post I know it was about trying to make ur lifters stop clicking, that's all I was trying to do in the first place. I haven't tried it on my own car but it has worked on many peoples cars that I know.

[Suba9792]

this is funny:lol:

[ShagginWagon]

That's wut I thought

[GeneralDisorder]

Heh - He's laughing at you, not with you kid.

 

I got nothing against you personally or your father - but you need to change the way you think. Start questioning things a little more and start asking *why* a little more. Do some reading and some research before you stick your foot in your mouth - because if you don't someone like me is going to come along and ask questions you can't answer.

 

Check out my Avatar. http://www.skeptic.com/

 

Maybe that will help you understand.

 

GD

[ShagginWagon]

Like I said, take a midol. U still have ur g string tucked up in ur camel toe over this.. Just drop it