Grinding-lurching in slow tight turns

[AKO]

I have grinding noise and sort of lurching (uneven forward motion, feels like the car doesn't want to move) when making slow tight turns on the parking lot. No problem when driving at speed, or turning at shallow angles. It is more pronounced when making a right turn.

The car (99 Legacy wagon L with manual) has 251K miles. Last time changed front axles approx. 100K miles ago.

 

Question 1: is it a CV joint?

 

Question 2: The struts are long overdue for replacement. Is it a good idea to change ball joints as well?

 

Question 3: How to check if a ball joint is bad?

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

P.S. Olnick mentioned possible torque bind. What is a torque bind and how to fix it?

[SubaruAlliance]

almost sounds like it could be some sort of driveline bind, something like a 4x4 truck turning on dry pavement while the 4wd is engaged. does it do it when you are acceleration and turning sharp and slow? try coasting in a sharp turn and see if it goes away.

 

does it make a clicking sound when you turn sharp in either direction? that would indicate a cv axle on the side the noise is heard from, i.e. clicks loud when turning left, indicates left cv joint.

 

if the ball joints are going, you will hear a clicking sound only when you hit bumps. if you hear clicking or clunking only when you hit bumps, then it would indicate the ball joints are ready to be swapped.

 

if the struts are blown out it would effect the handling of the vehicle, not so much an audible indication.

[Rooster2]

Welcome aboard the USMB board. Lots of knowledgeable folks here, who really know their Subies, and give good advise.

 

My advise is to jack up the passenger front corner. Once up in the air, try pulling the road wheel in and out, then left and right, to see if their is any "play" in the suspension. If you detect any play (looseness), then it is a sign of bad ball joints, or bad tie rods. Also, look at the rubber boots at each end of the half shaft. See if there are any rips in the rubber boots, which lets the grease out and the dirt in. If any boots are bad, then best to change the half shaft. Dirt in the torn boots contributes to wear, which can cause the noise you hear, though it is mostly heard as clicking noise. A bad wheel bearing can also cause the noise you hear, usually identifyed as an "rrrrrrrrrrrrrr" sound when turning only one direction with some speed, as on a curved exit ramp.

 

Lots written hear about torque bind. It is a problem associated with all wheel drive. Type "torque bind" in the search portion of this forum to read the vast archives on the subject, and how to remedy it.

 

Struts last a long time on Subies, so even with a ton of miles on your car, the struts still may be good. Bad struts will cause a bouncy ride, and poor steering control. Push up and down repeatedly on each of your front fenders, then stop to see if the suspension wants to rebound repeatedly with little dampening action. If so, then the struts need replacing. Also, look at the strut with the road wheel removed to see if there is any evidence of oil leaking from the strut. This too, indicates a bad strut.

[SubaruAlliance]

good call rooster2.

 

if you have the wheel in the air try to move it to check for play. if you can move it with your hands on the "12 and 6 o'clock" pushing away from you at the 12 and pulling towards you at the 6, and alternating, that would also indicate a bad ball joint. If your hands are at the "3 and 9 'clock" and the process repeated that would indicate a bad tie rod end. movement in one or both of these tests can also indicate a bad wheel bearing, but like rooster said it's a whining type sound. if it goes away when you turn one way, but not the other that would indicate a wheel bearing, i.e. whining changes pitch or stays the same when turning left but goes away when you turn right, it would indicate a bearing on the right side.

[OB99W]

Is the AT Oil Temp light blinking after the car is first started?

 

Have you tried inserting a fuse in the FWD holder (under hood, near passenger side strut tower) to see if that changes the symptom?

 

EDIT: Forget the above, it applies only to the 4EAT -- see the next two posts.

Edited October 29, 2010 by OB99W

[Olnick]

I believe this is a manual tranny car, OB99W.

[OB99W]

I believe this is a manual tranny car, OB99W.

Thanks -- don't know how I missed that.

I probably need to get more sleep!

[toddonbike]

Had this problem in my 99 Outback Sport at about 120k. Several mechs could not figure it out incl Subaru dealer. It was my torque converter. About $800 fix. Would operate fine for about a 2 mile drive but more than that it it would bang around turns.

[OB99W]

Had this problem in my 99 Outback Sport at about 120k. Several mechs could not figure it out incl Subaru dealer. It was my torque converter. About $800 fix. Would operate fine for about a 2 mile drive but more than that it it would bang around turns.

Welcome to the forum.

 

I'm not saying anything more, since I've already put my foot in my mouth in this thread. Want to comment, Olnick ?

[Olnick]

Whatever you say, OB99W! (Ref: Post #6, this thread.) :-\

[AKO]

Guys, thanks for all suggestions. Yes it is a manual transmission car, so fuse check is N/A. Will definitely try the ball joint/tie rod check (sounds very straightforward), and will search for torque bind among the treads on this forum. I feels exactly as if something is binding the driveline, the car has no inertia, I need give it more RPM to get it moving in slow tight turns.

 

I will post my findings/fixes.

 

Thanks again.

[Olnick]

I feels exactly as if something is binding the driveline, the car has no inertia, I need give it more RPM to get it moving in slow tight turns.

 

Relatively rare in a manual tranny car, but sounds like a classic description of torque bind to me.

 

Manual tranny Subarus have a viscous coupler at the rear of the transmission housing that will probably have to be replaced (automatics use a clutch system there.) I'm sure a new one would be rather pricey--you might consider getting one from a salvage yard/pull-n-pay.

 

At any rate, good luck. Keep us up on your progress.

[idosubaru]

torque bind.

 

MT torque bind happens. there's a number of posts on here of folks having it fixed, sourcing parts, costs, swapping trans, etc. i believe the last EJ trans i sold was because of torque bind.

 

there are fewer manual trans vehicles around in general so that we see less doesn't necessarily mean it's less common in MT's on a percentage basis. though given the amount of AT's we've seen you would guess that.

 

you could try posting in the parts wanted section to see if anyone has one available. someone might have one with a bad front diff or gears but good viscous unit.