EA82T help

[soobie_newbie67]

like in my before thread, i have bought an EA82T motor, im fully rebuilding it, and need some help. now lets stay on topic this time, the admins closed my last thread. im wondering what all wiring im going to need out of the old car so i can make this engine run. should i get all the wiring from the other car, or do i just need the stuff that runs to the motor and the ECU? the car im getting the motor from had a automatic tranny, does that affect my swap? and is it just me, or do the fuel injected EA82's not have the pump in the tank?

 

some info, My car, 1987 Subaru GL wagon carbed EA82.

 

new motor, 1985 Subaru something wagon EA82T. looks exactly like my car, just different motor.

[zacyork]

i do believe the transmission part will be a problem. a lot of the time there is a different ecu for the auto compared to the manual. correct me if im wrong but thats usualy how it is for obd1 and obd2 vehicles.

[zacyork]

the fuel pump is inline just in front of the tank. three bolts holding it up on a cover. i think most EA motors did this

[Gloyale]

i do believe the transmission part will be a problem. a lot of the time there is a different ecu for the auto compared to the manual. correct me if im wrong but thats usualy how it is for obd1 and obd2 vehicles.

 

Na that won't matter at all.

 

In fact, there is a discrimination pin that can be grounded or ungrounded to tell the ECU whether it's in an Auto or Manual. EJ ECU's are the same way.

 

 

What I would suggest would be to pull the entire harness from the Turbo car, all of it. Strip it down to just what connects to the motor and the MAF.

 

Because it's an early turbo, you will also need the Knock Control unit, which controls spark. It's insdie the passenger side of the dash, between the glove box and the A pillar.

 

Also you will need to swap the whole front crossmember to clear the up-pipe.

 

 

 

IDK man......I feel like saying that you'd be better off using good interior and body parts from the 87 to repair the 85. Probably easier than doing an engine swap. If you want to keep the turbo.

 

If you're set on the 87, and are gonna go through the trouble of wiring in F.I., that particular setup (flapper MAF, 1st gen heads, Knock unit and Disty w/ impossible to find rotor, prone to head cracks) would be the MOST work for the LEAST gains.

 

SPFI the 87's motor would be easier, and more reliable.

 

EJ'ing it would be the very best option. You could at least use the 85 turbo Fuel pump for that so it wouldn't be a waste.

[soobie_newbie67]

all right. thank you for the help people. im aware of the EJ22 motor swap, but i just like taking ************ty motors and making them better. another question. what causes the heads to crack? is the turbo too much or does the motor get to hot or something? i remember people telling me of engine heat problems. i have already got down everything im going to do to the cooling system to eliminate too much heat problems. also i heard about head gasket problems and i got that figured out too.

[soobie_newbie67]

another thing i forgot to ask was for info on the dash. my car has the analog dash with tach, speedometer, and the other 4 things (oil, volts, fuel, engine temp) the car im taking from has the digital dash. will i have to take the digital cluster, or will my regular one work?? someone on here, if i remember right, told me my dash will still work/compatible.

[Turbone]

all right. thank you for the help people. im aware of the EJ22 motor swap, but i just like taking ************ty motors and making them better. another question. what causes the heads to crack? is the turbo too much or does the motor get to hot or something? i remember people telling me of engine heat problems. i have already got down everything im going to do to the cooling system to eliminate too much heat problems. also i heard about head gasket problems and i got that figured out too.

 

I thought the same thing for many years, and I made it work for a while.

Eventually you will get tired of swapping engines/headgaskets/etc ad infinitum. What do you plan on doing about the HG problem? I used copper spray sealant on my HG and over torqued them by 10ft lbs, the last 2 builds never blew or leaked. But because I increased the boost, I blew the ring lands off a piston. The heads crack because they dont cool well enough and the water jacket walls are to thin. There are 3 gens of heads, the 3rd being the best, but they will crack if overheated enough. Also the passenger side head gets coolant last and its next to the turbo. Building a EA82T to handle more boost takes $$$, you cant do it on a budget......trust me. Search and read my threads about my RX here and in the Retrofit Forum, you'll see what I've done in the last 5-6yrs.

 

another thing i forgot to ask was for info on the dash. my car has the analog dash with tach, speedometer, and the other 4 things (oil, volts, fuel, engine temp) the car im taking from has the digital dash. will i have to take the digital cluster, or will my regular one work?? someone on here, if i remember right, told me my dash will still work/compatible.

 

You will need to swap out the wiring harness for the interior also. The sending units for both cars are different, gas, oil, temp, etc.

You've got a lot of work ahead of you. I might have done it 10yrs ago, but its not worth all the trouble anymore :-\

 

And this is a warning to GD - If you post in this thread, I'll delete it.

Just forget you ever heard of the EA82T.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Turbone

[soobie_newbie67]

I thought the same thing for many years, and I made it work for a while.

Eventually you will get tired of swapping engines/headgaskets/etc ad infinitum. What do you plan on doing about the HG problem? I used copper spray sealant on my HG and over torqued them by 10ft lbs, the last 2 builds never blew or leaked. But because I increased the boost, I blew the ring lands off a piston. The heads crack because they dont cool well enough and the water jacket walls are to thin. There are 3 gens of heads, the 3rd being the best, but they will crack if overheated enough. Also the passenger side head gets coolant last and its next to the turbo. Building a EA82T to handle more boost takes $$$, you cant do it on a budget......trust me. Search and read my threads about my RX here and in the Retrofit Forum, you'll see what I've done in the last 5-6yrs.

 

 

 

You will need to swap out the wiring harness for the interior also. The sending units for both cars are different, gas, oil, temp, etc.

You've got a lot of work ahead of you. I might have done it 10yrs ago, but its not worth all the trouble anymore :-\

QUOTE]

 

its all good, i got the wiring thing down, question was will my old gauges work with the new wiring or will i have to take that stupid digital dash? also, as for the headgaskets, a freind of mine has found someone who is gonna make me some layered steel head gaskets. i do not ever plan on putting more boost on this motor then stock, so thats all good. i did pick up the engine cross member so i have that now too.

 

some things im gonna do: not cats on the exhaust, all straight but with a different muffle (heard that the exhaust has breathing problems) cooling: dual electric cooling fans with a switch for me to set the temp myself(gonna set to go off at 180 degrees) 170 degree thermostat (had a hard time finding one that is right, but i got it)

 

anything else that comes to mind that will help cooling i will do, also a friend of mine found a intercooler for me. he's gonna give it to me, all i have to do is find my own tubing. im not rich or have loads of money, i even got my grandparents helping me buy parts (they're gonna pay for gaskets and stuff) anything else i wanna put on is at my own expense. i thank people for the help this time around, and any cheap thing i can do to make this motor a little bit better is much appreciated.

[Turbone]

I'm not sure if the wiring for the inst cluster is a direct plug-in or not, theres only one way to find out, eh?

As for the HG, if your not going to up the boost just get the Felpro ones you dont have to re-torque. And just over torque the heads by 10lbs and use the spray I mentioned.

[NorthWet]

... 170 degree thermostat (had a hard time finding one that is right, but i got it)...

IMHO, this is pointless: It will only make the car run cooler at low throttle, and will hurt mileage, emissions, and engine life. Even if you stay at 170 degreesF at cruise (shudder!), a second or two of WTO will use up your "reserve" temperature buffer.

 

Turbone is a good source for what has worked and what has not. I do feel that using a pre-87 engine in a 87-and-up chassis will provide you with many interesting hours trying to get things working the way that you want. Others have done the switch from digi-dash to analog dash, and their write-ups show much frustration... BUT they were doing spot-rewiring instead of wholesale work as you have planned. (Might be easier for you.)

 

I have my own views of the exact cause of the exhaust port cracks, but it basically does follow what Turbone said. Make sure that your cooling system is tip-top and always full.

 

My OPINIONS follow: If there is a simple way for you to get the turbo water-jacket nominal "supply" line from somewhere else (maybe all the way from the disty-side head?) you MIGHT lower risk to head and HG. (This line does have to come from a physically lower point on the engine than the nominal "outlet" going to the T-stat.) It might also be beneficial to not dump the hot turbo-drain-oil back into the non-disty head; however, there may be few if any practical ways to accomplish this.

 

There will be plenty of nay-sayers. As long as you are aware of the difficulties and seeming impracticality of what you are doing, go for it! Logic and playing do not mix well.

 

Play on!

[soobie_newbie67]

so hey, did the Subaru digital dash boards ever have any problems? i was thinking about just taking the one out and putting it in my car. i went on google and check out the dash while its lighted up and i think it looks bad rump roast. but somethings are just straight up worse then they appear. any opinions on digital dash?

[NorthWet]

They had a tendency to stop working. i think the general suspect is a voltage regulator or similar semiconductor blowing out in the dash.

[soobie_newbie67]

They had a tendency to stop working. i think the general suspect is a voltage regulator or similar semiconductor blowing out in the dash.

 

ok, i guess i will stay away from it then and just stick to my analog cluster. shouldnt be that hard to wire up, should it???

[soobie_newbie67]

TURBONE! where would i be able to find these 3rd gen heads?

 

^^^^^^ another question, is it a good idea that im going to put an intercooler on this motor, my friend said it would help with the heat problem. my friend and i are going to look at every aspect of the heat problems that are associated with this motor and take care of them.

 

that other guy said that it would be a bad idea to put a 170 degree thermostat in my car. how would that hurt my motor and mess up my emissions??? i dont understand. i have always used the coolest thermostat i could get in all my cars and never had problems. anyway.

 

so Turbone, can you help me out??? if we could i was wondering if maybe we could sometime get on a chat and you could maybe help me with some other questions.

[Turbone]

Using PM's will work fine.

 

I take it, this is your first Subaru? If so, listen to what North Wet is saying.

A colder t-stat will not let the engine warm up to operating temp, which leads to other problems with the engine. Installing a IC will help quite a bit, it dropped my engine temp drastically. Replace every cooling line on the engine, make sure they are quality hoses too.

Finding gen 3 heads is very difficult, almost impossible. I think 90 is the only year they were made and it was a bandaid for the remaining engines for that year.

I'm not sure if they are available from the dealership or not still, but you could try asking.

The digi dashes in these models are ok, the early ones from 85-86 were orange and were hard to see. 87 and up are green and brighter. The ones that NW mentioned are pre 85 and not in these models.

[NorthWet]

Regarding "Gen3" heads: There is a lot of talk about how they are better and less likely to crack. The only thing that i have seen for certain is that they have different casting identifiers. I make a distinction (when I remember to think before talking/typing ) between what I know and what I think that I know. i do not KNOW that the heads with what we refer to as "Gen3" heads is any different or better than any other casting run; I do not think that anybody else KNOWS this either. (No offense to those that believe that they are better... especially you, Rob ). To the best of my knowledge, nobody has opened up these castings and done a comparison as to which looked better designed. AFAIK, people look at the "Gen3" heads and think that they have not encountered as high a rate of exhaust-port divider cracks as with earlier casting runs.

 

"Earlier" might be a very significant word. It might just be that gen1 and gen2 casting runs have had more miles, more heat cycles, more cooling system issues, and/or just plain more abuse than the castings from the last year that they were made. (I am assuming that Turbone is correct on where to find gen3 heads.) If this is the case, then these heads are LIKELY to still be your best bet. But on an individual, case-by-case basis, that would not guarantee anything. Or they might be superior castings.

 

My advice (glad you asked for it! ) would be to concentrate more on the cooling system and its hoses, and an intercooler to keep intake-charge temps down rather than go on a Grail Quest.

[vagen]

there are a few simple facts about turbo EA82s

first they create a LOT of heat both in the coolant and more importantly the oil. I have added an oil cooler to mine along with the intercooler, this has significantly lowered my oil temps. look at your radiator find the thickest one you can and look for metal end tanks (usually on A/c equipped cars). The heads do crack on these cars but if you keep the deadly temperature extremes at bay it will take MUCH longer before they do. Finally 115 hp will feel great if you are used to 80 try to resist the urge to turn the boost up, without knowing exactly what your AFR is you could cause big problems really fast by getting boost happy.

 

I hope this helps

 

have fun

 

 

BTW: look up WJW's posts on this engine he is one of the authorities on making big power with the EA82t

Edited November 9, 2010 by vagen

[MilesFox]

just swap the harness dash and all.

 

since these are the same generation of cars, you just carry over and replace parts, really no mods, cutting or splicing is necessary.

 

want a turbo engine, swap harness, want digital dash, swap dash.

 

the car has 3 harnesses. The engine harness under the hood which contains the headlights, horns, cruise, etc.

 

The body will have a harness depending on wagon, sedan, etc.

 

the dash harness connects between the 2. If you dong like the color of the dash, you can swap harnesses between them.

 

you just have to take the time to expose and pull the harnesses. dont forget about the multitude of ground wires on the harness in random places.

 

your swap should be direct with all the holes and mounts present

 

dont forget to swap the engine crossmember so your motor fits as well

[presslab]

there are a few simple facts about turbo EA82s

first they create a LOT of heat both in the coolant and more importantly the oil. I have added an oil cooler to mine along with the intercooler, this has significantly lowered my oil temps. look at your radiator find the thickest one you can and look for metal end tanks (usually on A/c equipped cars). The heads do crack on these cars but if you keep the deadly temperature extremes at bay it will take MUCH longer before they do. Finally 115 hp will feel great if you are used to 80 try to resist the urge to turn the boost up, without knowing exactly what your AFR is you could cause big problems really fast by getting boost happy.

 

I hope this helps

 

have fun

 

 

BTW: look up WJW's posts on this engine he is one of the authorities on making big power with the EA82t

 

Any info on your oil cooler setup?

 

I have been running 14 PSI w/ TD04L, for the past 12k mi; so far so good.

[vagen]

I have a sandwich adapter and run -10 lines to an 11x6x2 plate style cooler in front of the radiator on the passenger side.

 

 

 

 

living in nascar land does have one or two advantages.

[soobie_newbie67]

there are a few simple facts about turbo EA82s

first they create a LOT of heat both in the coolant and more importantly the oil. I have added an oil cooler to mine along with the intercooler, this has significantly lowered my oil temps. look at your radiator find the thickest one you can and look for metal end tanks (usually on A/c equipped cars). The heads do crack on these cars but if you keep the deadly temperature extremes at bay it will take MUCH longer before they do. Finally 115 hp will feel great if you are used to 80 try to resist the urge to turn the boost up, without knowing exactly what your AFR is you could cause big problems really fast by getting boost happy.

 

I hope this helps

 

have fun

 

 

BTW: look up WJW's posts on this engine he is one of the authorities on making big power with the EA82t

 

yeah, i had already discussed the oil cooler with my friend whos helping me on this. the oil cooler is a great idea, and im happy to hear someone else who says so. how did you run the lines, might i ask?

 

oh, and hey, i wanted to mention to everyone. i dont know how it happened, but i totally lucked out on this motor. when i went at check it out at the junk yard, we put a socket and breaker bar on the crank to make sure the engine wasnt seized. to me, it seemed like it turned to easily so i thought maybe valves, head gasket, rings, anything that would keep the motor from having compression. when i finally picked up the motor yesterday, the first thing my friend and i did was check the timing. come to find out the timing on the left (drivers side) of the motor was a whole 180 degrees off. when we fixed the timing and put a socket and breaker bar on and turned the crank, it was perfect. you could feel the compression strokes, and also i didnt hear any noises indicating any cylinder leaks.

 

the whole reason this car was at the junk yard, according to the yard guy, was cause the motor didnt run. well, i guess who ever did the timing belt service messed up. oh, and i also took my turbo down to a local turner shop and had it checked out and they told me it was in perfect condition. i was surprised and extremely happy to hear that.

[Nomad_Brad]

thats way sweet set up! Whats the oil cooler off? is the installation pretty easy?

I just got a 1990 loyale turbo and been reading on how to keep it alive, I got a intercooler and hood scoop coming and this seem very nice to add as well!

 

 

 

-Nomad

[NorthWet]

...

the whole reason this car was at the junk yard, according to the yard guy, was cause the motor didnt run. well, i guess who ever did the timing belt service messed up...

This situation is more common than you can imagine. I have lost out on several deals because the seller was talking about wht he was selling and I would point out that the belt issue was probably the reason. Honesty has its drawbacks.

 

GD might be opinionated (usually correctly), but his technical advice is excellent.

[soobie_newbie67]

well, im pretty sure i probably did it WRONG to begin with. all we did was take the timing belt covers off and lined up the timing mark on the cam gear on the right(passenger side) of the motor. then checked the timing mark on the other side and found this. for all i know the whole timing was off cause i havent actually had the motor running. would have ran it at the junk yard if someone hadnt pulled the starter.

 

also, i had absolutely no clue about any timing marks on the flywheel. i have a Haynes manual for this car, i guess i should start using it.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Turbone

[soobie_newbie67]

also, i would like to pop the question about the gas tanks. now, about the picking up air problem. i shouldnt have that problem cause i never let my cars get that low. would probably have to be so low the light turns on. since i got my car the only time i have ever seen the gas light on was when i got it, the guy left it empty for me -.- since that i dont let my fuel get low enough. also, i like the fact that the pump isnt in the tank, makes it ever so easier for me.

 

questions:

 

which fuel pump should i run? or whats the best that anyone recommends.

 

i read on hear about someone who was running 330cc fuel injectors. when i took my car about and saw the whole insides of the exhaust system, it looks like the car runs pretty damn lean stock. should i run bigger fuel injector so my car runs a little richer (not worried about fuel mileage at all btw)

 

and i think thats it.

 

oh, and i appreciate all of you people who are giving me help with this project. your advice is just gonna make this project 100 times better for me.