help with wheel bearings

[bratlife]

I have and 85 brat (EA81) and the right front wheel bearings are going out (i think). I just put a new axle in on that side and I felt in there and the bearings seemed smooth but something is still pretty bad and its the only other thing that is a moving part in that area, so I figure its gotta be the bearings.

I've never done this though, and the manual just says to take it to a dealer, so I don't even have that to follow, but from what i've read its do-able myself without the special tools.

So, after I get the steering knuckle off the axle, do I just hammer away at the edge of the bearings? are there any tricks or tips, or order I should be doing it in? I'm gonna give it a go next time the rain lets up (tomorrow or the next day) unless someone here starts yelling "stop- stop!! don't do it!!"

 

thanks in advance for your thoughts

[ferox]

Here is a basic write up:

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=77491\

 

You don't have to do it exactly like the write up. I personally don't use a hammer on my tie-rod ends. You can get a puller for that for about $6. It's not written very prominently in the write-up, but if you remove the bolt from the inner pivot joint of the control arm it will give you enough play in the suspension to remove the axle from the knuckle after you have loosen everything else up. You don't actually even have to remove the knuckle, but it might be easier to do it that way since it's your first time.

 

One of many lessons from GD is to go to a bearing supplier and get bearing number 6207-2RS-C3. Get some seals too. Two bearings and two seals for each front wheel. In Portland I have used Mcquire Bearing and Applied Industrial, and I am sure there are plenty of others.

[Indrid cold]

I have and 85 brat (EA81) and ..... bearings seemed smooth but something is still pretty bad and its the only other thing that is a moving part in that area, so I figure its gotta be the bearings. unless someone here starts yelling "stop- stop!! don't do it!!"

thanks in advance for your thoughts

 

High probability it is the bearings.... but usually I have found fragments, broken pieces etc...in the grease. But the bearings arn't the only moving thing, the axel stubs through the knuckle riding on the bearings and into the Hub where the splines mesh and drives the wheel... if the splines are worn the axle will spin/grind in the hub...although I have never persoanly seen it I could only imagine that it should be evident by looking at the splines on the inside of the hub.

 

As for the bearings... it is a do it yourself project. Plan on it taking twice as long as you would think, but the second time it goes so much quicker and the third your a Jedi.

[bratlife]

Thanks a bunch for the reply! this seems pretty basic. I've changed the axles up front a couple of times, so i'm pretty familiar with getting all that stuff off of there.

Thanks for the part number, but does anybody know the part number for the seals?

 

thanks for the replies

[GeneralDisorder]

If you drift the bearings out with a punch and use them to push out the seals you can very often just clean them and reuse them. Unless they are cut, etc.

 

PM me if you want to drop by my place - I built a pusher for these bearings, etc to make installation easier.

 

GD

[bratlife]

Thanks. yeah I might have to. I'm just about to try it here at my house though, since the rain let up, so if I get in a pinch i'll borrow a car and maybe come give you a visit. I got the bearings from mcguire in SE portland, but they didn't have the exact dimensions of the seals that the auto parts store said to use. I got what they had but they are a little bit thinner. mcguire said I could just bring them back if they were too thin, so I guess I'll just compare them to the old ones once I get them out.

Do you think it would matter that much, if the new seals are a bit thinner?

 

thanks for all your help.

[GeneralDisorder]

Thinner should not matter - just the ID and OD of the seal. Send me an email at cropperr(at)gmail(dot)com if you need to reach me - I'll get that on my phone.

 

GD

[renob123]

I think I see what's going on here. It looks like you said you got seals at McGuire. You don't get the wheel seals at McGuire, just the bearings. You get the wheel seals at NAPA or whatever.

 

Am I following you right?

 

Jacob

[GeneralDisorder]

McGuire carries seals I'm sure - but they don't do "automotive" by their own admission (frankly they are a bunch of jack-asses about it too :-\). If you get the timken seal part number (Autozone or rockauto's web site, etc) then Applied Industrial can help you (you won't like the price) - but I know Discount Import Parts in Beaverton or Clackamas has them in stock for $6 each.

 

GD

[bratlife]

I went to mcguire just cause it was the closest (and cheapest place for bearings) and figured I would just try to get the seals from them too since I was there, but I ended up finding them at an auto parts store so thats all fine. Now I'm just having a real problem getting the bearings out. I couldn't get them out with the knuckle on the car still, so I took that out and I've had it on the bench trying to hammer or pry them out and I have only been able to move one of them a little closer to edge, and thats it.

Any other tips or anything?

[GeneralDisorder]

You need a BIG hammer. I use a 4lb drilling hammer and a thick brass punch.

 

GD

[NorthWet]

I have been lucky so far with a 16oz ball peen, but that thick brass punch is needed. Steel punches will tear up the housing, and thinner brass punches don't look too good afterwards, assuming that they survive at all.

[subinewby]

I just had the same problem with mine. You need a bigger punch and like a 3-4lb hammer to just knock them out. Luckily I had some help and after I saw how it was done its pretty easy. A brass punch definitely helps to get them back in though. The inner seal can vary depending on ea-82 or 81. Im no mechanic but just from my experience.

[bratlife]

Wow. I finally go those things out. I just had to go get a bigger brass punch, then it wasn't too bad. Now I can't get the new ones back in though. I cleaned everything pretty good and it seemed relatively smooth.

I took a 1 1/2 inch thick slab of scrap walnut (heavy hard wood) and cut it into a hockey puck just a hair smaller diameter than the bearings, and I have been whaling on that thing and I'm really not getting anywhere. Half of the first bearing is still sticking out and it won't seem to go in any more.

sorry for all the questions, I feel like an idiot. But are there any secrets to getting them back in at this point?

[Indrid cold]

that should have worked... possibly the wood is too soft so not getting the right transfer of energy/push to drive the bearing in...

 

I went to a Ranch & home type store and bought shaft collars.. (just a bit smaller on the o.d. with I.D. large enough to allow axel to pass through so I can also use them for pulling in the axle.)

http://www.ruland.com/a_articles_getting_a_hold.asp

At a Ranch and Home type store they will be the cheaper style which .. hey.. cheap, works better because your just going to use them as a beater and not clamp them on.

With shaft collars or shaft keepers what ever they are called, I pound on those (steel) as it directs the shock to the outer ring... but I also use them as a spacer with large washers as I use them again to suck the axle through the bearings using the castle nut, collars and large washers.

 

Usually just like you are doing... get them started and pound away..

 

Understand your frustration... your first time with these and they will screw with you in every way they can... (been there and feel your pain.)

 

curious of the grinding noise in your original post.. now that the bearings are out.. how did they look/feel? Metal chunks in your grease etc??

 

In case there was any confusion.... shaft collars work well because they put the energy into the outer ring/race and NOT on the center nor on the bearings, they are cheap and readily available (better than grinding down an old bearing) , better than wood, or punching with a round steel punch, so in review; readly available at most Farm product stores, cheap, quick & effective.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Indrid cold

[NorthWet]

*Edit: My apologies to Indrid Cold, as I did misread/misunderstand what he said about shaft collars. Sounds like something very useful, and I am going to look into them. endedit*

 

EEEK! Maybe I misread Indrid Cold's post but it sounded like the advice was to pound on the inner race of the bearing...

 

NEVER do that, unless you are discarding the bearing. All pressure/force should be applied to the race that you are trying to fit to the housing or whatever the bearing is being pressed upon.

 

Look to see if the housing is scarred where the bearing used to be. Quite often, someone has used something harder than brass and has scarred the housing.

Edited November 14, 2010 by NorthWet

[ferox]

You would be surprised and how much "spring" wood actually has. I use the hot-cold strategy when I do these. I put the bearings in a plastic bag in the freezer the night before. In the summer I set the knuckle in the sun for a couple hours, in the winter I just use a torch (some people put them in the oven). You could also set it in front of a space heater. With a hot/warm knuckle and frozen bearings, I drift the bearings in with a brass punch on the outer portion of the bearing. It only take light taps this way. Just a bunch of little taps uniformly around the circumference of the outer part of the bearing. If you do it this way just be very deliberate about placement of the punch on the bearing. I usually file the punch a little bit to make sure it contacts the bearing correctly. I have a press and a giant socket set but I don't even bother using them. You can also make a simple bearing press with a large nut and bolt and some large washers and such. Whichever method you choose, the main thing you have to make sure you do is apply force/pressure on the outer metal portion of the bearing as evenly as possible.

[GeneralDisorder]

Again - feel free to PM me and bring the knuckle by. I had a cancelation this weekend or I would be doing a Forester HG and clutch job. But as it is I'm not real busy.

 

Bearings are an interesting world - one that most mechanics of the automotive persuasion are not trained for properly. Mostly people in the automotive world are not trained for attention to detail of the level required for proper bearing installation to insure correct operation and long life.

 

First - wood is not the answer - it is not hard enough. Second you need to INSPECT the bearing pocket VERY carefully. Burrs, nicks, folded edges, etc are all things that must be taken care of before attempting to install a bearing. Then the bearing must be started straight - typically I use a small ball-peen hammer to tap the edges in lightly all the way around the OD of the bearing. After it's started I place my driver on the outer race and with a LARGE dead blow, drive the bearing home. It's not something I can easily explain with words - it's a technique and one that is honed over many bearing replacements (not just Subaru wheel bearings) - you have to know where to apply force and how much. It's a feel thing and if you do it wrong you'll be back in there in a few thousand miles doing it again.

 

GD

[bratlife]

Wow. thanks for all the replies. I haven't checked back here since my last post. I ended up grinding down the old bearing on the bench grinder to use as a press while the new bearings were in the freezer and the knuckle was sitting on the wood stove. It all went in pretty easy, enough that I feel confident they weren't damaged at all. I just went real slow and only had to just tap on the old bearing that I set on top of the new ones and it pushed them right in there. thanks so much for everybody's help.

Now I'm kinda hating it though cause I hammered on the ball-joint bolt of the tie-rod to knock it loose to take the knuckle out earlier, and now I'm realizing I think I hit it a little bit too hard and messed up the threads.

I really need to get my car going again soon, but I might have to get a new tie rod end from a junk yard.

wow, this whole "afternoon bearing swap" all of a sudden turned into, my car being out of commission for the last three days.

thanks again for everybody's help.