GeneralDisorder Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 (edited) Phase 1 EJ25's are DOHC. They have shim-over-bucket direct actuation valve systems. They started in '96 and went to '99. Phase 2 EJ25's are SOHC. They have rocker arms with screw type lash-adjusters. They showed up in '99 in Forester and Impreza 2.5RS models. EJ22's are SOHC. They have rocker arms and hydraulic lash-adjusters from '90 to '96. '97 and later are solid and adjusted like a Phase-II EJ25. ALL EJ25's need their valves adjusted periodically. EJ22's from '97 on also require this same adjustment. The EJ25D (and EJ20 DOHC) with the shim-over-bucket ones are a pain to adjust but doable; see above about the screwdriver and such. A shop can do it but it'll cost a fortune because it's a long job. EJ25 DOHC's made after mid-2003 (USDM turbo engines) use "shimless buckets" in which there is no shim to replace - the entire bucket must be replaced and that DOES require removal of the cams. The SOHC EJ25's (and '97+ EJ22's) are easy to adjust. You only need your feeler gauges, a screwdriver and a wrench (after pulling the valve covers, of course). HLA's don't need to be adjusted; they adjust themselves. They need to be replaced once in a great while if they gum up and start to stick. If you don't adjust your valves, at best the valvetrain gets noisy. At worst, it tightens up and you burn exhaust valves. Typically what happens is the intakes loosen up and the exhausts tighten up. If you don't adjust it, the intakes clatter, the exhaust valves fry and you pull the heads and do a valve job. A valve job WILL cost more than shimming your valves, especially if you are lucky enough to be able to reuse some shims. Fixed GD Edited November 17, 2010 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 (edited) My guess is that you work in a Subie shop, would you run the labor up to seven hours of work? If not, what is a fair number of hours to do a valve adjustment? I would say 4 to 6 hours - depending on how many shims you end up having to replace - a good number of them will just be a quick check with a feeler gauge - no adjustment needed (mostly the intake side never seems to need much done at all - they typically don't need re-shimming even after 210k). Others may require that a new shim be ordered if it's not on-hand. It neccesarily adds to the job when you have to stop, wait for parts to come in, and then proceed again. If you are not removing the timing belt set then it's just a matter of clearing some work-space around the valve covers, removeing them (plug wires too), and carefully checking each valve for proper clearance and adjusting where needed. Typically the ones needing adjustment are on the exhaust cam so are more easily accessed from under the car. It's really not that big of a deal - the worst part is actually getting to the valve covers, dealing with the spark plug boots, and removing the covers, etc. It's tight on the DOHC cars. I reccomend a valve adjust any time the engine is out of the car - clutch repair, oil seperator plate, head gaskets, etc - all of these are common enough on the EJ25D's that frankly it's rather odd to have to do the valve adjust with the engine in place since it's usually coming out for one thing or another . But it can be done and it's not that bad. GD Edited November 17, 2010 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Regardless, I'm going to put this to bed: Phase 1 EJ25's are DOHC. They have either HLA or shim-over-bucket direct actuation valve systems depending on model year. They started in '95 and went to '99. The '95 engines and possibly the '96 in the USA had HLAs, the later ones did not. ALL post '96 EJ25's need their valves adjusted periodically. HLA's don't need to be adjusted; they adjust themselves. They need to be replaced once in a great while if they gum up and start to stick. Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted November 17, 2010 Author Share Posted November 17, 2010 Thanks to all for posting their knowledge and advise. My question was fully answered. No need to beat this dead horse of a subject any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Fixed posts... you are all fired! Not only did you fix it incorrectly, you mucked up this thread with the worthless information. If you are going to read, get or make up your information from the internet at least check more than one source. And Wiki almost always has errors Rick. And the STi 2.5 DOHC had shimless. The 2.0 never did. Please get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 And Wiki almost always has errors Rick. And the STi 2.5 DOHC had shimless. The 2.0 never did. Please get it right. Yeah - I could be wrong on that 2.0 shimless comment. I didn't use wiki for anything - all that is from memory. I'll fix the EJ20 deal but I'm pretty sure the rest is accurate. At least that's been my experience anyway. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the3rsss Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Hey...I love the screwdriver idea. Ive been "mucking around" in engines since I was sixteen. If I purchased every"special tool" the general and every other mfg called for i'd be broke. God! They have "special service tools" for everything. disorder is right. who wants to spend 300 for a tool you may use twice? Ive see tips like the "screwdriver trick" where you get in there and say "woooooo, this aint gonna work" and i have seen them work great!! Two words...common sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Hello. I'm glad to see that Subaru forums can come to the same consensus as VW TDI forums. Anyway, here is what I gathered from this: I have a 2003 Legacy L that I am working on later this Fall and it has a dead #4 hole with zero (0000.0000) compression. The car has 245,000 miles on it and probably never had the valves adjusted, causing the exhaust valve to burn not to mention the 150 PSI on #1. (#3 is 180) So I need to pull the heads and have them fixed. We have a very competent Subaru shop here in town but will i be able to do all of the work on the heads? Are these engines as sensitive s a 15 year old EMO, or are they more like an old logger and you can just throw a new valve and some lapping compound at them and run it? My point is do I need to find a shop that specializes in Subaru heads or is it a job that can be done by any competent mechanic? Second question is I'm trying to find a consensus on if I sould pull the engine to pull the heads or do it in the car? I have read that it can be done but the chances of screwing it up are pretty high. I have just started to study on these engines and from what I can see it doesn't look like there is much to screw up but I may be missing something. Yes, I will be doing the timing belt carefully, but I'm just talking about R&R of the heads? Is that a difficult job in the car? If there are problems that likely occur doing it in the car, what are they? I am willing to listen and learn, so throw it at me. Right now we are in the information gathering stage and are trying to decide if we should pull the engine or not. Thanks in advance for any help you all can provide and if you need any VW TDI info, I can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Any head shop/machine shop can handle the valve repair. Usually when they burn you need a new valve and a new seat. Adjustment on that engine is via a simple rocker arrangement. You don't have the bucket/shim system as that's only for the DOHC engines. ALWAYS pull the engine for a proper HG job. It's easy (takes about 1.5 hours) and with the engine on a stand the job can be done cleanly and correctly for a lasting repair. Removing and installing the heads in the car is a mess - you have to remove the heads and install them with the bolts slid loosely into the head..... fluids wanting to drain out of the block, bending over the engine bay..... not cool. Just pull it. GD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I agree with GD I would never do the DOHC in the car way too much bending over and creating extra work for yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I agree with GD I would never do the DOHC in the car way too much bending over and creating extra work for yourself But Grasshopper, I have a SOHC. Do you think that changes things? General, I don't work on cars if they aren't on ramps. On the other hand, doesn't the intake manifold have to come off to pull lthe heads? Heck, that's half way to pulling the engine as far as unhooking stuff. Ok, so I'll pull the VCs and take a look to be sure of... well, something. I'm not really sure what I would expect to see to verify it's just the heads. It sounds like I would probably see the valves way out of adjustment. Sound good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-3-2-4 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Yeah but last time I looked the SOHC had two less cams so its not as tall on the heads. Still not worth the effort to do it in car... Hell my first time I had it out in about an hour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitedog Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Ok, so we have a consensue of two and that's good enough for me. Now I get to research all of the stuff I need to know. I found the manuals to download, but as we all know, a manual is so black and white, it can be misleading. I have found much more real world advice online for many things, so I'll be around poking and prodding, trying to gather it all in. Being new the Subaru stuff, I get to learn all new acronyms. I found a list somewhere, so that will help. Lots of other stuff to learn, so I'll have to dig in. Wish me luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john40iowa Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 '99 I am told was a mid year change for Some Subarus. My book said to have it adjusted or checked at 105 k. However, when the dealer looked at it he said it was not adjustable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 '99 I am told was a mid year change for Some Subarus. My book said to have it adjusted or checked at 105 k. However, when the dealer looked at it he said it was not adjustable. Dealer is 100% incorrect. That's really, really sad. ALL Subaru's made from '97 on are solid-lifter engines (Subaru totally abandoned hydraulic lifter adjustment that year on all models and has not made any engines with them since) and DO require adustment or you risk a burned exhaust valve. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john40iowa Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Dealer is 100% incorrect. That's really, really sad. ALL Subaru's made from '97 on are solid-lifter engines (Subaru totally abandoned hydraulic lifter adjustment that year on all models and has not made any engines with them since) and DO require adustment or you risk a burned exhaust valve. GD Strange, I even showed him the service interval page; it was the very last time I went to the dealer for maintenance. I think dealers really don't want to mess with old cars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwhoffman Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 97' legacy outback wagon does have hydraulic lifters. (mine does) Subaru has used at least three different heads and valve covers, also cam cap bolts can be 6mm 0r 8mm torque 6mm to 7ft lbs and 8mm to 14 both torques ar specified in subaru shop manual w/o clarification as to why . Be sure to get the correct small valve cover gaske tthere are 3 different versions, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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