mrtn400 Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Hey! I just got my '97 Legacy Outback on Thursday, and it's my first car! Hopefully I'll be sticking around here for info on mods and repairs. It's the 2.5L automatic version. It's got leather seats, seat heaters, window defrosters, oil heater, and pretty much anything else you could think of. It's pretty sweet. I wish I could grab a pic or two of it, but... No surprise, but on Friday the AT OIL TEMP light came on. Not so much as a solid on but the 16 tick error indicator. I came here, found some info on the diag for the TCU, and checked it. I got code 24, which is Duty Solenoid C. I also checked the transmission fluid (with the help of my neighbor ) to find it extremely low. Since the tires are also pretty old and there's an odd one, my mom said that we could just take it to a local Sub dealership so they could look at it. So right now it's sitting at the dealership waiting for a complete inspection, new tires, some kind of allignment (something with the tires; maybe front-end?), and a look into the TCU error. And somehow they managed to get it to stall every time they go to start it, (which didn't happen once, either on the two test drives or the lots of driving on Thursday and Friday). Hopefully they fix it and they don't try to charge us for it. Time for waiting. :-\ I do actually have a question though. When I did the diagnostic on the TCU, I checked the "Previous problem history check procedure" and not the "Existing problem, check procedure". I assumed that the previous problem history was the thing to check as I figured the existing problem would only look for something wrong for that time I had started the car. Was I right to check the problem history instead of the existing problem? (the guide I followed is attached) Oh, and sorry for getting way off topic of the introduction. This is a pretty sweet forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacyork Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 welcome mrtn400. hopefully the dealership doesnt bend you over too far. they have been known to do that sometimes. you are ok with checking memory codes because that means the problem was bad enough to store the code. your better off with memory codes anyway cause sometimes checking current codes wont show you anything.just remember to clear your codes when your done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 (edited) Yikes! I wouldn't have taken it to a dealership - they are going to bend you over on the TCU code. The duty-c solenoid is inside the transmission and the labor to get to it is not real cheap. Further - there is a chance that the mismatched tires will have caused damage to the transfer clutch pack (which is operated by the duty-c) and may need to be replaced - which at the dealer is big $$$$$$$. Tires, alignment, code 24, possible clutch pack, and now some kind of stalling issue..... my prediction is they are going it hit you HARD - possibly more than the car is worth. It doesn't take much at dealer pricing to scare people into buying a brand new car...... especially with a '97 OBW in rough shape like that being worth $3000 or less. It doesn't take a lot at dealer pricing to exceed that. Have the head gaskets been replaced yet? Those are known failures on your engine and if they are original, etc...... find another car unless you can do the work yourself. In the business of selling cars/equipment, etc where you also have a service department - we always called this type of customer a "sales call" - in other words the estimate on repair was going to be so high that we would just hand it to a salesman and have HIM place the call to the customer and give them the bad news and a run-down of their options - repair vs. replace. I had about a 95% accuracy with calling out which units were "sales calls" before they hit my bay when I was doing industrial machinery. I would see them being unloaded from a truck and I would already know :-\. As my old boss used to say - "Jack up the air filter and drive a new machine under it!" GD Edited November 21, 2010 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Welcome to the Board. You've come to the right place. So far, I can't disagree with either of the two replies you got. Nothing wrong with dealerships except: they are generally the most expensive to do a repair to your car; they aren't necessarily the best service you can get even at their higher prices; and lastly, they have a vested interest in getting older cars off the road and selling you a new (or newer) car. There's no indication of where you live. I'm in the Seattle, WA area and there are at least four independent shops I could suggest that I would trust more than a dealership. I even know a shop in Portland, OR where I take my car when I'm there on business (he's actually two blocks away from the dealership). Lots of options for second opinions. Let us know what area of the country you are in, and maybe someone can suggest a reputable independent shop you can get a second opinion from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacyork Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 hahaha you are so right GD. thats why i quit working at a dealership and went on to a smaller shop with just two other mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92_rugby_subie Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Yup Yup. Dealers will definately stick you where you dont want to be... In the butt... At least thats wear I keep my wallet :lol: Best of luck, hope they look at it, quote you, and you run lol, bring the issues to the New Gen forum with a location, Im sure someone on the board can help you on it for 1/3 of the cost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef_tim Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 If you haven't completely committed to the car DITCH IT, and quick. Sounds like a basket case and that would not be good for your first car. GD is as usual spot on. If you've already purchased the car, get it out of the dealership. Tyres, will cost a lot less from tirerack.com. an alignment from a small independent shop will be half or better the the dealership. Good luck and welcome to the friendly side of Subbies!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtn400 Posted November 22, 2010 Author Share Posted November 22, 2010 Thanks for the welcome and replies! Oh and I live in Carmichael CA, which is near Sacramento. Yeah, the car is ours and there's no returns on it of course. I'll talk to my mom about getting it out of the dealership and see if I can change the duty C solenoid with the help of my neighbor who is pretty good with cars. As far as I know, the head gaskets are original. Even though there are a lot of probable failing parts, do you think I would be handle it? It's almost a rhetorical question as it's my car now and there's nothing I can do to change that, so if I don't get it fixed, I'm SOL. I'm not a very car-oriented person, but I'm interested in learning to fix these issues and I'm very good at computer repair, music instrument repair, and electronics/sound systems, so I do believe I could pick this up fairly quickly. Though I'm not sure as to whether I should pull the car from the dealership. I'm 100% sure there weren't any stalling issues, and I did drive it a fair bit on Thursday and Friday. I don't want to pull it out and have another issue, probably dealership caused, to deal with. Would it be better to cancel everything we can, ask for them to fix the stalling issue, and then bring it back? Thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 Thanks for the welcome and replies! Oh and I live in Carmichael CA, which is near Sacramento. Yeah, the car is ours and there's no returns on it of course. I'll talk to my mom about getting it out of the dealership and see if I can change the duty C solenoid with the help of my neighbor who is pretty good with cars. As far as I know, the head gaskets are original. Even though there are a lot of probable failing parts, do you think I would be handle it? It's almost a rhetorical question as it's my car now and there's nothing I can do to change that, so if I don't get it fixed, I'm SOL. I'm not a very car-oriented person, but I'm interested in learning to fix these issues and I'm very good at computer repair, music instrument repair, and electronics/sound systems, so I do believe I could pick this up fairly quickly. Though I'm not sure as to whether I should pull the car from the dealership. I'm 100% sure there weren't any stalling issues, and I did drive it a fair bit on Thursday and Friday. I don't want to pull it out and have another issue, probably dealership caused, to deal with. Would it be better to cancel everything we can, ask for them to fix the stalling issue, and then bring it back? Thanks for the help! Ask them for a detailed estimate and what kind of guarantees that the car will be fixed properly. Then decide if you can afford it. If it were up to me...I'd take it home and use it as a learning experience. Down the road, you'll be glad you did since you'll never have to depend on a dealer or unscrupulous shop again. Trust yourself and you'll do fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 As far as I know, the head gaskets are original. How many miles are on the car? It's possible they have been changed but you would need the car availible for you to inspect them. Unfortunately with this engine it is not a matter of *if* - it's just a matter of *when*. If you find they are the older style and there's no evidence they have been changed - you will definitely want to schedule that. It's not a cheap repair (around $600 to $800 with parts and machine work) nor something that is typically accomplished by a lot of DIY mechanics - being good with computer repair, etc does not prepare one for automotive work where many specialized tools and the proper environment and experience are neccesary for a correct and lasting repair job.... and the parts are a lot heavier . Even though there are a lot of probable failing parts, do you think I would be handle it? What do you have to work with? You are going to need a good selection of tools, etc. For the head gaskets you will have to pull out the engine - engine hoist, general tools and at least a torque wrench. For the duty-c and possible clutch pack you need the car on 4 jack stands that are tall enough that you can easily work under it - exhaust and driveline have to be removed and the rear output section of the transmission dissasembled. It's almost a rhetorical question as it's my car now and there's nothing I can do to change that, so if I don't get it fixed, I'm SOL. I'm not a very car-oriented person, but I'm interested in learning to fix these issues and I'm very good at computer repair, music instrument repair, and electronics/sound systems, so I do believe I could pick this up fairly quickly. I'm sure that picking it up won't be the problem - but if you don't have some tools or access to them and a dry, warm place to work you are looking at quite the obstacle to doing the job right. The money you could spend on the tools, etc might make any cost savings for doing the job yourself dissapear. Though I'm not sure as to whether I should pull the car from the dealership. I'm 100% sure there weren't any stalling issues, and I did drive it a fair bit on Thursday and Friday. I don't want to pull it out and have another issue, probably dealership caused, to deal with. Would it be better to cancel everything we can, ask for them to fix the stalling issue, and then bring it back? I think you need to find out *precisely* what the issue is. "stalling" is only a symptom. When is it occuring? Is there any ECU codes? Is the gas tank empty?!?..... etc. I would remove it from the dealer ASAP. They cannot help you for an affordable price. You need affordable help or you need to tow it home and start your learning curve on the deep end . GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtn400 Posted November 22, 2010 Author Share Posted November 22, 2010 Thanks for the advice. How many miles are on the car? It's possible they have been changed but you would need the car availible for you to inspect them. Unfortunately with this engine it is not a matter of *if* - it's just a matter of *when*. If you find they are the older style and there's no evidence they have been changed - you will definitely want to schedule that. It's not a cheap repair (around $600 to $800 with parts and machine work) nor something that is typically accomplished by a lot of DIY mechanics - being good with computer repair, etc does not prepare one for automotive work where many specialized tools and the proper environment and experience are neccesary for a correct and lasting repair job.... and the parts are a lot heavier . It has about 192k on it. I think I'll probably take it somewhere for this if they haven't been replaced as it sounds like it's not the best work to start learning with. What do you have to work with? You are going to need a good selection of tools, etc. For the head gaskets you will have to pull out the engine - engine hoist, general tools and at least a torque wrench. For the duty-c and possible clutch pack you need the car on 4 jack stands that are tall enough that you can easily work under it - exhaust and driveline have to be removed and the rear output section of the transmission dissasembled I'm sure that picking it up won't be the problem - but if you don't have some tools or access to them and a dry, warm place to work you are looking at quite the obstacle to doing the job right. The money you could spend on the tools, etc might make any cost savings for doing the job yourself dissapear. We have a separate 2 (maybe 3) car garage with pretty much only a weight machine and a '64 1/2 Mustang badly in need of some help, so I know I have room to work on it and I can just leave it there if I need to. Plus, I'm pretty sure I can borrow some jacks and tools from my neighbor (and probably even a spare brain and a hand or two). I think you need to find out *precisely* what the issue is. "stalling" is only a symptom. When is it occuring? Is there any ECU codes? Is the gas tank empty?!?..... etc. I have no clue as to what's causing it to stall, as this has only happened since it was taken into the dealership (it hasn't happened to me). I would remove it from the dealer ASAP. They cannot help you for an affordable price. You need affordable help or you need to tow it home and start your learning curve on the deep end . GD I know my mom put some money down for a general inspection, and I think I might just cancel the tires and the alignment. The inspection money is already spent so I might as well have them look it over. Plus, I'm hoping they fix the stalling as even though the car is starting to look like a dud, I never had any engine related issues, error lights, or stalling for the two days I did have it, so it hardly seems coincidence that it started stalling only after they got it. So either way, don't let them do any repairs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 It has about 192k on it. I think I'll probably take it somewhere for this if they haven't been replaced as it sounds like it's not the best work to start learning with. Ok: 1. Figure about $2000 if it needs them. You live in an expensive area and at that mileage you are about due for the second timing belt change and definitely will want to replace the water pump, all the belt tensioners, and all the front seals. A full head rebuild is in order since it's due for valve adjustment as well and the guides and valves/seats will probably be shot not to mention the valve stem seals. Even if you did all this yourself you are looking at ~$500 for the machine work on the heads, about $250 for the complete timing belt kit with water pump from ebay, and then head/intake/exhaust gaskets from the dealer along with hoses and accessory belts and misc stuff you are still looking at $1000 in parts and machine work even if you do the labor. 2. The duty-c solenoid is another chunk of money - unless you get the parts used from a wrecking yard the transfer clutch is ~$750 and the duty-c solenoid is (off the top of my head) like $75 or so. Add in some misc. gaskets, fluids, etc and you are near another $1000. 3. Stalling issue..... totally unknown at this point. That's a question mark. So.... worst case you are looking at $3000 or more - which is not a good investment on a car with near 200k on it. Best case you get off with replacing just the solenoid (closer to $250 or less), a timing belt/water pump job ($500 or so), and the stalling issue was a bad/low tank of gas. At this point it's all speculation - you won't know for sure till you get the car back and start investigating. We have a separate 2 (maybe 3) car garage with pretty much only a weight machine and a '64 1/2 Mustang badly in need of some help, so I know I have room to work on it and I can just leave it there if I need to. Plus, I'm pretty sure I can borrow some jacks and tools from my neighbor (and probably even a spare brain and a hand or two). That's great that you have help. Hopefully it's enough. I know my mom put some money down for a general inspection, and I think I might just cancel the tires and the alignment. The inspection money is already spent so I might as well have them look it over. Sure - but take what they say with a grain of salt. They don't always know what's best for your wallet and won't even give you some options that you have if you take it elsewhere or do it yourself. Plus, I'm hoping they fix the stalling as even though the car is starting to look like a dud, I never had any engine related issues, error lights, or stalling for the two days I did have it, so it hardly seems coincidence that it started stalling only after they got it. So either way, don't let them do any repairs? I wouldn't - but understand that the ONLY time I've ever had a dealer service department (or any shop for that matter) touch one of my cars has been for warantee work.... and I don't really even feel great about allowing them to do that - I don't like other cooks in my kitchen . GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtn400 Posted November 22, 2010 Author Share Posted November 22, 2010 Ok: 1. Figure about $2000 if it needs them. You live in an expensive area and at that mileage you are about due for the second timing belt change and definitely will want to replace the water pump, all the belt tensioners, and all the front seals. A full head rebuild is in order since it's due for valve adjustment as well and the guides and valves/seats will probably be shot not to mention the valve stem seals. Even if you did all this yourself you are looking at ~$500 for the machine work on the heads, about $250 for the complete timing belt kit with water pump from ebay, and then head/intake/exhaust gaskets from the dealer along with hoses and accessory belts and misc stuff you are still looking at $1000 in parts and machine work even if you do the labor. 2. The duty-c solenoid is another chunk of money - unless you get the parts used from a wrecking yard the transfer clutch is ~$750 and the duty-c solenoid is (off the top of my head) like $75 or so. Add in some misc. gaskets, fluids, etc and you are near another $1000. 3. Stalling issue..... totally unknown at this point. That's a question mark. So.... worst case you are looking at $3000 or more - which is not a good investment on a car with near 200k on it. Best case you get off with replacing just the solenoid (closer to $250 or less), a timing belt/water pump job ($500 or so), and the stalling issue was a bad/low tank of gas. At this point it's all speculation - you won't know for sure till you get the car back and start investigating. We had the timing belt checked and there was no cracking or drying and the factory writing on it was clear as day, so hopefully that doesn't need any attention. Hopefully it doesn't get near $3000 or I'm SOL for a car. :-\ That's great that you have help. Hopefully it's enough. Yeah, I sure hope so. Sure - but take what they say with a grain of salt. They don't always know what's best for your wallet and won't even give you some options that you have if you take it elsewhere or do it yourself. I kind of figured that when we called to check up on it and they said that it now had stalling issues and they had no clue why the AT OIL TEMP light was coming on (when even a car-tard like me read the code and told them). I wouldn't - but understand that the ONLY time I've ever had a dealer service department (or any shop for that matter) touch one of my cars has been for warantee work.... and I don't really even feel great about allowing them to do that - I don't like other cooks in my kitchen . GD I understand, but if I can play them as being at fault for this (as I feel they are) and get them to fix it for free, it's one less thing on my plate to learn about and then have to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 (edited) We had the timing belt checked and there was no cracking or drying and the factory writing on it was clear as day, so hopefully that doesn't need any attention. Here's the problem - that's no kind of assurance. Here's why: 1. If you don't know when the belt was done (mileage) then you don't know when you need to replace it. If you wait too long - it breaks and you have BIG problems. Internal engine damage results. Therein lies the problem though - how long is too long?!? Impossible to say without the documentation thus their "check" of the belt isn't worth the paper it's printed on or the hot air of the person that made the claim. Since you don't know the mileage - you HAVE to replace it or potentially suffer the consequences. Are you prepared to roll the dice? 2. At the high-mileage you are running it's not even about the belt - that's about 33% of the concern. The bigger concern is the condition of the idler bearings and the water pump - for which inspecting the belt is a useless test and tells you nothing. Subaru does not indicate a replacement interval for these components but they DO have a limited life. Most dealerships will reccomend these be replaced with the belt but because of a general distrust of mechanics, etc - many people decline to replace these components. A new belt makes no difference if the cogged idler or water pump seizes - the belt will skip and you will be just as screwed as if the belt had broken. I have seen EJ water pumps last 135k and I have seen the cogged idlers go at a little over 160k. If you are still running the factory parts - you roll the dice every time you get in the car. Trust me - I've bought cars because of these failures. I understand, but if I can play them as being at fault for this (as I feel they are) and get them to fix it for free, it's one less thing on my plate to learn about and then have to fix. They won't be at fault - never happen. How would you prove it? It's an old car and can break at any time. You only drove it for a couple days - could have been an intermittant problem that only shows up once a week or once a month, etc. Could be a brand new problem..... You can prove nothing and they have no reason to help you - especially if you are declining to have them do any other work - what's in it for them to fix this issue if you are just going to leave anyway? See what I mean? Best to just take the car (on a tow truck if you have to) and take care of this yourself. GD Edited November 22, 2010 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtn400 Posted November 22, 2010 Author Share Posted November 22, 2010 Here's the problem - that's no kind of assurance. Here's why: 1. If you don't know when the belt was done (mileage) then you don't know when you need to replace it. If you wait too long - it breaks and you have BIG problems. Internal engine damage results. Therein lies the problem though - how long is too long?!? Impossible to say without the documentation thus their "check" of the belt isn't worth the paper it's printed on or the hot air of the person that made the claim. Since you don't know the mileage - you HAVE to replace it or potentially suffer the consequences. Are you prepared to roll the dice? 2. At the high-mileage you are running it's not even about the belt - that's about 33% of the concern. The bigger concern is the condition of the idler bearings and the water pump - for which inspecting the belt is a useless test and tells you nothing. Subaru does not indicate a replacement interval for these components but they DO have a limited life. Most dealerships will reccomend these be replaced with the belt but because of a general distrust of mechanics, etc - many people decline to replace these components. A new belt makes no difference if the cogged idler or water pump seizes - the belt will skip and you will be just as screwed as if the belt had broken. I have seen EJ water pumps last 135k and I have seen the cogged idlers go at a little over 160k. If you are still running the factory parts - you roll the dice every time you get in the car. Trust me - I've bought cars because of these failures. They won't be at fault - never happen. How would you prove it? It's an old car and can break at any time. You only drove it for a couple days - could have been an intermittant problem that only shows up once a week or once a month, etc. Could be a brand new problem..... You can prove nothing and they have no reason to help you - especially if you are declining to have them do any other work - what's in it for them to fix this issue if you are just going to leave anyway? See what I mean? Best to just take the car (on a tow truck if you have to) and take care of this yourself. GD So my first step here is to grab a "basic" repair manual of some sort, right? Do any of you have suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 Just a question. Did you buy private party or off a dealer lot? The reason I ask is, can you go back to the seller and get any idea of the work that's been done in the past and the mileage it was done at. GD is giving you good advice; hard but good. Too bad your car is not an Impreza Outback since I have a spare shop manual for a '97 Impreza. Motor and transmission info should be the same; not sure about the wiring. Body information would certainly be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 So my first step here is to grab a "basic" repair manual of some sort, right? Do any of you have suggestions? A basic Haynes manual from any parts store will do for now. Any questions you have can be answered here by searching or posting if you can't find anything. There are many of us that do this regularly and can walk you through the process. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtn400 Posted November 23, 2010 Author Share Posted November 23, 2010 A basic Haynes manual from any parts store will do for now. Any questions you have can be answered here by searching or posting if you can't find anything. There are many of us that do this regularly and can walk you through the process. GD So here's another update: They looked at the transmission and the whole thing is in pretty rough shape. They said a whole new one would only be a few hundred more than the repairs to the existing one, and they'll warranty the new one for 2 years/24k miles. My mom jumped all over it when they mentioned the warranty. I also called around on the tires and front end allignment, and they were pretty on par with prices, so I decided to have them fix them. They're also in the process of a full inspection, and so far there's a lot of belts and fluids and other minor (but important, I know) things that I'll fix. On the DIY fixing end of things, I'll have room in the garage to work on the car or leave it sit overnight if I need to. I have a friend that's pretty into cars who wants to help me get it running in top shape just for the fun of it. I also have a neighbor who said he'd gladly loan me tools. My mom also knows someone with an engine hoist who might let me use it if I needed to. So does that seem to cover all of my bases? I know the dealership transmission swap isn't the cheapest way to go, but I (and my mom, who's opinion really matters most since she's paying) really like the mindset of the two year/24k warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 (edited) New transmission is a huge mistake with that many miles on that model engine - the cost will be more than the car is worth and then you have an old used engine in there. That's a terrible investment when you have maybe 100k to go before the car and it's engine etc is used up and ready for the scrap heap anyway. Why go and buy a transmission that will be good for 300k? You are buying 200k miles of transmission for the guy that gets it when the car is shot. Used transmissions with around 100k on them and in good condition can be had for $750 or less (sometimes a lot less - $250 to $500 is not at all uncommon) - typically with a warantee (usually 90 days but many dismantlers will sell a 1 year extended, etc). Your mother needs her head examined if she thinks thats a good deal because of a warantee (which, BTW will not cover labor - only the part). I would also highly doubt that it needs a whole tranny - typically just a transfer clutch and solenoid (used of course) will fix them right up. The 4EAT automatic that you have in that car is well known as a reliable workhorse - they don't just fall apart. Torque bind because of poor tire maintenace, yes - but that's a repair not a replace sort of problem. Lets say you need a whole tranny - www.car-part.com is a great resource: Ace Auto Wrecking USA-CA(Sacramento): $400 Modesto Auto Wreckers USA-CA(Modesto): $400 That's just two options I pulled up for your area. You call these guys up - ask how much for a tranny with a warantee. You and your neighbor install it in a weekend. That's assuming you don't just need a $100 transfer clutch and a good duty-c solenoid. Don't let your mother waste her money - that's foolish and disrespectful IMO. You came here to get the answers so you could help her (and you) make good decisions. I can only show you the right path - I can't make you follow it - but I will laugh at you when you don't. Might as well just light the money on fire - at least that would be entertaining. :-\ GD Edited November 23, 2010 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 If you're set on keeping the car, I'd suggest Firestone for a wheel alignment. They have a "lifetime" alignment for about $150 for the first one (usually around $100 for a non-lifetime alignment); after that every alignment is for free. I typically run 5 to 10K between alignments and get about 150K out of my cars (I buy mine around 100K), so the lifetime alignment is a good deal for me. You might shop around and see if any other tire place offers that. Also, find out if Firestone's lifetime alignment is currently "on sale." They often reduce the price to draw in more customers. Lastly, Firestone will inspect your car (often for free) and be a second opinion to confirm/deny what the dealer is telling you. This doesn't mean you should have the repairs done by Firestone (or the dealer). For the amount you're liable to spend you should shop around and see if you can find a qualified Subaru independent shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtn400 Posted November 23, 2010 Author Share Posted November 23, 2010 New transmission is a huge mistake with that many miles on that model engine - the cost will be more than the car is worth and then you have an old used engine in there. That's a terrible investment when you have maybe 100k to go before the car and it's engine etc is used up and ready for the scrap heap anyway. Why go and buy a transmission that will be good for 300k? You are buying 200k miles of transmission for the guy that gets it when the car is shot. Used transmissions with around 100k on them and in good condition can be had for $750 or less (sometimes a lot less - $250 to $500 is not at all uncommon) - typically with a warantee (usually 90 days but many dismantlers will sell a 1 year extended, etc). Your mother needs her head examined if she thinks thats a good deal because of a warantee (which, BTW will not cover labor - only the part). I would also highly doubt that it needs a whole tranny - typically just a transfer clutch and solenoid (used of course) will fix them right up. The 4EAT automatic that you have in that car is well known as a reliable workhorse - they don't just fall apart. Torque bind because of poor tire maintenace, yes - but that's a repair not a replace sort of problem. Lets say you need a whole tranny - www.car-part.com is a great resource: Ace Auto Wrecking USA-CA(Sacramento): $400 Modesto Auto Wreckers USA-CA(Modesto): $400 That's just two options I pulled up for your area. You call these guys up - ask how much for a tranny with a warantee. You and your neighbor install it in a weekend. That's assuming you don't just need a $100 transfer clutch and a good duty-c solenoid. Don't let your mother waste her money - that's foolish and disrespectful IMO. You came here to get the answers so you could help her (and you) make good decisions. I can only show you the right path - I can't make you follow it - but I will laugh at you when you don't. Might as well just light the money on fire - at least that would be entertaining. :-\ GD Ok. I convinced her of what you said, but it wasn't easy. She has this "gut feeling." :-\ I see your point, and I think I'll go with doing the duty-c/transfer clutch swap myself and a new set of tires from somewhere else. We have AAA so I'm pretty sure we can get it towed back for free. This way I learn a lot more about the car, I have a project to do, and it's way cheaper. So do I finally have a good plan? Thanks for seeing this through, GD! If you're set on keeping the car, I'd suggest Firestone for a wheel alignment. They have a "lifetime" alignment for about $150 for the first one (usually around $100 for a non-lifetime alignment); after that every alignment is for free. I typically run 5 to 10K between alignments and get about 150K out of my cars (I buy mine around 100K), so the lifetime alignment is a good deal for me. You might shop around and see if any other tire place offers that. Also, find out if Firestone's lifetime alignment is currently "on sale." They often reduce the price to draw in more customers. Lastly, Firestone will inspect your car (often for free) and be a second opinion to confirm/deny what the dealer is telling you. This doesn't mean you should have the repairs done by Firestone (or the dealer). For the amount you're liable to spend you should shop around and see if you can find a qualified Subaru independent shop. Thanks for the info on the lifetime alignment, it sounds like a great deal. I think I might have them inspect it too once I yank it from the dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 Yes - that's an excelent plan. You will gain experience and confidence in your car through fixing these problems yourself. Doing your own maintenance and repair is really the only way a car of this age makes any sense - otherwise you might as well buy a Kia with a 100k warrantee and pay the $199 a month. The "system" that car dealers have in place makes maintaining a vehicles beyond it's warantee prohibitively expensive - they do this so you will buy a new car. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92_rugby_subie Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 I agree with GD here for sure ^ Hes got a vehicle that I replaced the lifters and oil pump on... I was so nervous that it wasnt gonna work, but he started the engine, and from what I know, its doing great... and now when I buy the car, I know it all works well, I know what was done, and when and it makes me feel more confidence in driving it. Especially with snow coming around! or being here as the case maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtn400 Posted November 23, 2010 Author Share Posted November 23, 2010 Yes - that's an excelent plan. You will gain experience and confidence in your car through fixing these problems yourself. Doing your own maintenance and repair is really the only way a car of this age makes any sense - otherwise you might as well buy a Kia with a 100k warrantee and pay the $199 a month. The "system" that car dealers have in place makes maintaining a vehicles beyond it's warantee prohibitively expensive - they do this so you will buy a new car. GD I agree with GD here for sure ^ Hes got a vehicle that I replaced the lifters and oil pump on... I was so nervous that it wasnt gonna work, but he started the engine, and from what I know, its doing great... and now when I buy the car, I know it all works well, I know what was done, and when and it makes me feel more confidence in driving it. Especially with snow coming around! or being here as the case maybe. Well now this morning my mom has completely undone any convincing I did yesterday but I'm trying as hard as I can, saying things like I'll never drive it if she gets the new tranny. :-\ She thinks that if I swap the solenoid/transfer clutch, it's still an evil misunderstood transmission and it'll break whenever it feels like it. She also says that the neighbor is done with larger projects like a transmission swap so it'd just be me and my friend working on it. Does it still sound like we'd be able to handle it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 (edited) Well now this morning my mom has completely undone any convincing I did yesterday but I'm trying as hard as I can, saying things like I'll never drive it if she gets the new tranny. :-\ Does it still sound like we'd be able to handle it? Yes - you can handle it. Tell her to give you half the money that she would have spent on the transmission and you can buy tools (which will be useful for the rest of your life), and the transmission, and install it in a weekend or two. Explain to her that it is both educational and also adding to your tool collection which is priceless - many of those tools will be useful down the line - maybe to fix your car, or maybe to fix HER car. You never know. A tool is almost never a bad investment - at the very least you could buy craftsman and then return them after the job is done Transmission swap is pretty simple on an automatic. Transfer clutch and solenoid are WAY easier than that. The biggest thing is to come HERE when you are confused or frustrated and we will tell you how to proceed. With a friend, and this forum you can accomplish almost anything on that car. Other than the transfer clutch pack and the solenoid these transmissions are VERY reliable. I have a customer with one that had a little torque bind at 215k - we flushed it out twice. The shifting got a lot smoother and the torque bind is nearly gone - it now has 245k on it. He drives 160 miles a day commute and has put 30k on it in 8 months. With proper maintenance and replacing your solenoid and clutch pack it should easily make 300k. Show her this thread - make her read my comments. Show her my post count and my join date. I work on these for a living - I buy and sell them all the time. I know of what I speak and I'm not asking you for money - so consider my motivation here vs. the dealership. GD Edited November 23, 2010 by GeneralDisorder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now