Subaru EA 82 timing Help help help

[ajs425]

i out the EA82 into my brat, got all the parts in but we just cant get the timing right and need the exact way to time it, we have tried a million things and its not working

[GeneralDisorder]

What flywheel are you using? I'm assuming it is carbed? Are you having trouble with timing belts or ignition?

 

GD

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

So, you Swapped an EA82 onto your Brat... isn't it?

 

Basically you put the Belt in one side and Then the other side Needs to be Turned 180º before putting the Belt.

 

The Complete info is on MilesFox's Famous Writeup about Timin' an EA82, which could be Found in the USRM...

 

or just Follow this Link:

 

Timing Belt Procedure EA82

 

Kind Regards.

[Indrid cold]

What flywheel are you using? I'm assuming it is carbed? Are you having trouble with timing belts or ignition?

 

GD

 

Possibly what General Disorder is driving at is the flywheel your using.. the timing marks may be no good to you? (he is all wise on this stuff so I am only guessing.) Here is some basic info from chiltins.

 

Cylinder location on the engine:

 

3 4

1 2

.X

 

X= fan,

..................................

Distributor roation (counter Clockwise) on Over Head Cam engine: 1-3-2-4 when facing engine.

 

3 .1

.0

2 .4

 

The zero represents the coil wire to the center of the distributor and and the number one plug wire is the back right on the distributor. the distributor plug wire location as seen in chilton book. Although I don't believe it matters which one is the #1 post on the distributor as long as the sequence is, 1-3-2-4 feeding the cylinder plug. When I had my EA-82 I just made it look like the layout in the book as described.

 

Find the compression stroke on cylinder #1, pull the plugs, crank by hand (socket on end of front crank nut) with thumb over cylinder hole and assure you get the compression stroke.. not exhaust and on the compression stroke bring that to top dead center, look at the rotor under the distributor cap to see distributor cap post and see which one rotor is pointed at. Call that number one distributor and run that wire to number one plug. Also now look at the flywheel through the access hole and see if your igniton timing marks align...

 

If you had taken the timing belts off then they may have been put on wrong by you or previous owner etc.. No fire with out of sequenced belts. Look at the front cam pulleys, (it has been awhile for me) but there should be a hole on the front edge, rotate cam till it points up, the other cam hole should be pointed down and on the fly wheel there should be 3-dashes and the center dash should align to the ponter on the bellhouseing at the access hole. This is possibly why General Disorder is questioning flywheel.. as different flywheel could make your marks meaning less.. but not sure on this.

 

I know this is all rather basic info and you probably know alot of this but sometimes it helps just to stand back, take a break and clear your mind before you dive back in. Hope any of this is helpfull.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Indrid cold

[ajs425]

its carbed, the flywheel is the flywheel that came with the EA 81, we drilled out the holes to make it fit right

[GeneralDisorder]

You need to use the EA82 flywheel because it has different timing marks than the EA81 flywheel. Thus you are timing it with the wrong ignition marks. The EA81 flywheel also has no valve timing marks for installation of the belts.

 

GD

[ajs425]

is there anyway we can do it with the EA81 cuz im broke and, yea no bueno i need to get this done by tomorrow

[TomRhere]

If you were to bolt the EA81 and EA82 flywheels together with the crank bolt holes all properly aligned you will find that;

 

0* on EA81 flywheel reads 6* BTDC on the EA82 flywheel.

 

 

 

 

Recently did simular here, only EA81 engine into EA82 and used the EA82 flexplate as car had Auto trans.

[Indrid cold]

If you were to bolt the EA81 and EA82 flywheels together with the crank bolt holes all properly aligned you will find that;

 

0* on EA81 flywheel reads 6* BTDC on the EA82 flywheel.

 

Recently did simular here, only EA81 engine into EA82 and used the EA82 flexplate as car had Auto trans.

 

General Disorder confirmed what I was thinking.... that with out the proper dash marks where you would align motor as seen through the view port to install timing belts then how do you set timing belts? and timing would be?

But lets say the timing belts were never adjusted... so they should still be in time! Right? so the only thing that should be out is the timing itself and if the distributor was never changed then possibly it could fire as long as nothing was changed...Right?

 

So if nothing was messed with than it could fire... so possibly you are using the wrong coil, or plug wires crossed or now you have to twist the distributor verious degrees to find where it will start...

 

but you open a can of worms should you want to change belts or use a timing light.... you can time by feeling power and listening to the engine but how would you determine the exact point on the flywheel to set the timing belts by... hmmmm.....

 

just tossing out ideas here...

Edited December 10, 2010 by Indrid cold

[GeneralDisorder]

Ignition timing is no problem - you can use the infomation above about the marks being 6* off to reference where to set the distributor and also it's pretty easy to just stab the distributor in using the cap and the #1 TDC trick. Good enough for the engine to run anyway.

 

Your real problem is the belts - if those are not correct - especially if you installed the belts using the ignition timing marks instead of the valve timing marks (that you don't have) you are going to have a real chore ahead of you. I would probably take a look at another EA82 and figure out where the valve timing mark is in relation to the crank nose - like on the EJ22 the timing mark is up when the keyway is straight down..... something along those lines. Unfortunately I'm not sure where the mark is in relation to the crank on the EA82 - I've never seperated the EA82 from it's flywheel since that's never typically needed.

 

GD

[TomRhere]

Ignition timing is no problem - you can use the infomation above about the marks being 6* off to reference where to set the distributor and also it's pretty easy to just stab the distributor in using the cap and the #1 TDC trick. Good enough for the engine to run anyway.

 

Your real problem is the belts - if those are not correct - especially if you installed the belts using the ignition timing marks instead of the valve timing marks (that you don't have) you are going to have a real chore ahead of you. I would probably take a look at another EA82 and figure out where the valve timing mark is in relation to the crank nose - like on the EJ22 the timing mark is up when the keyway is straight down..... something along those lines. Unfortunately I'm not sure where the mark is in relation to the crank on the EA82 - I've never seperated the EA82 from it's flywheel since that's never typically needed.

 

GD

 

I know I played "Heck" with my '82 BRAT that had an EA82 engine in it,,, trying to get the cam timing right without the aide of the "T-Belt" marks. (I had pulled the engine for a total reseal, and didn't know about the 3 "l l l" marks for T-belt timing that the EA82 has.)

Lesson learned there.......

 

edit;

A PO had swapped the EA82 in using the EA81's flywheel. Didn't transfer any markings...

[ajs425]

so whats my best bet other than to swap the flywheel? (im in a hurry and have no cash)

[GeneralDisorder]

I already told you - didn't you read my post?

 

GD

[Indrid cold]

so whats my best bet other than to swap the flywheel? (im in a hurry and have no cash)

 

I figure you have all ready pulled the motor or what ever... but if not here are some ideas.

 

On your EA-81 flywheel you would have to determine 0-deg timing mark and the center dash mark for the Timing belt mark, while flywheel is in place and all through a 2x3" view port. Possible???

 

If you had an EA-82 flywheel that you could work with and could determine the relationship (degrees) between the o-timing mark (TDC) to the degree of angle to the center dash (timing belt alignment mark) of the three dashes this info can be used on your EA-81 flywheel. Set the ea-82 flywheel on a large piece of paper, draw an outline, mark the o-deg timing mark and center dash mark tothe paper, figure out the exact center of the circle, draw a line from your timing mark to center and center dash mark to center on paper. This is the degree of angle between the two. Lets say 37.5 degrees counter clockwise from 0-timing mark gives you one mark. Now make a circle of the ea-81 flywheel (I believe the ea-81 is small o.d. so you will have to know the radius or circumferance, so make that circle and or calculate out the small o.d. of travel to equal the circumferance of the 37.5 deg from the 0-timing mark. Your degree won't change, but your distance from zero will as your fly wheel I believe has changed size so from 0 to center dash mark may have been 9" on your ea-82, the distance on an ea-81 mayb be 8.35 inches and that distance will have to be transfered to the installed flywheel.

 

 

Now you would have to determin what your zero degree timing mark is on your installed EA-81 flywheel as your currnet marks mean nothing. By positioning your engine to where the engine is exactly at TDC so it will be firing on the number one cylinder that will give you 0-deg for timing mark, mark that with white paint, your B.T.D.C. (Before top dead center) marks for running can be marked later. Now you would have to rotate the engine (flywheel o.d.) as specific distance to the timing belt mark.

 

To put an engine at the exact TDC at 0 deg will be an approximate, possibly at the timing marks any slight movement of the main crank could play out at + or - an inch or two at the fly wheel? and if you set the timing mark off an inch or two then that will set the Timing Belt mark off as you are using your TDC mark as a reference point. So on the number one cylinder you would have to come up with a way to determine T.D.C. of number one piston on the compression stroke and get it very close. Possibly slide a stick to the head on the compression stroke and see if you can move the engine where the stick stops moving at the top of the compression storke, note possibly the key slot on the main cranke, probably no visible difference but that may give you a reference, find the center of the slopp as you slowly pull the motor through the top of the compression stroke to where the piston begins its down stroke, find the center slopp betwee that movement and call that center....tricky and sloppy at best.. and how accurate is that to the actual 0-degree, 1/4" off is probably a tooth on the timing belt which means it may not fire if the timing itself is off...

 

So, find o-deg, TDC Top Dead Center on number one piston. Mark flywheel. Rotate a specific distance to that determined by the layout and make your timing belt mark. put timing belts on to that mark and turn the key. doesn't fire, move belts one tooth one way, no fire, move belts back one tooth past the original the other... starts to fire.. your getting close...

 

General Disorder has given you the best advice and probably rolling eyes at this reply but I am just sitting back thinking... how could a person do this if he had too... and just tossing out ideas. Once you have it running you could take a center punch and make your own marks permenant and there you go...

Edited December 13, 2010 by Indrid cold

[hooziewhatsit]

If I had to make this work, and I still had the EA82 flywheel lying around...

 

I'd measure the distance around the EA82 flywheel from the 0* TDC to the 3 |||s for installing the belts.

 

Then in the car, I'd tape a properly measured & marked string, taking the 6* difference into account, and tape it to the TDC mark, and rotate the engine allowing the string to follow the flywheel. May have to tape it every few inches to keep it on the flywheel. Once you get to the mark on the string that's where your three marks go (the |||). Mark that well, and proceed with the belt install.

[ajs425]

still not working!!!

[hooziewhatsit]

still not working!!!

 

Let us know what you attempted, and what the outcome was

[ajs425]

we got it FINALLY we replaced the spark plugs, distributor cap and rotor and then we got the timing right finally so it runs we need to do a carb tune so it works right should be good to drive today, and we also need to figure out some neat little way to make the hood fit luckily someone put a weird looking scoop on there so we can just cut it out easily as its just sheet metal.