ea82 turbo power; is it possible???

[soobie_newbie67]

im going to get a water/air intercooler for my 1988 Subaru GL-10 turbo wagon, and completely gut the exhaust system of the cats to help it flow better, and try a cold air intake with one of those cone air filters. but, what else can i do to make this engine a little bit better? GD, i have heard everything you could ever want to say to me about how bad the EA82 turbo is, but look at it this way, its not your problem its mine, and i really appreciate your help and advise, so if you could put aside all of your opinions on how bad this motor is, i would like help with some performance ideas and/or things that could make this motor better.

 

a friend of mine told me to ask about these specific things:

after market connecting rods

better pistons and rings

head gaskets that will hold up

 

and also i used the search and read about cooling system maintainence and replacing the cooling lines and such every year, so i will keep up with that. also, im fitting the car with dual electric cooling fans with a adjustable thermostat switch for the fans.

 

also, what temp thermostat would anyone recommend for the EA82 turbo?

[Caboobaroo]

I ran 160* t-stat in mine but I only ran it during the summer.

 

There's no company that I know of that make better rods currently but I bet you might be able to get a company to make a few sets IF you have enough people that are willing (not wanting) to buy them. Same with the pistons and rings.

 

Headgaskets.... Well I ran 12psi in my old RX on a SPFI (9.5:1 cr) shortblock with gen 3 turbo heads, TD04 turbo, AEM cold air intake, Megan Racing 3" bellmouth and so on and instead of blowing a headgasket, I blew the ringlands off of #3 piston. I used OEM headgaskets and torqued them down to 75 ft. lbs. roughly

[GeneralDisorder]

I can tell you exactly how to make power with it. You just won't like the price.

 

1. Forged pistons - many companies will make them for you. Check around. Probably run about $500 give or take for a set.

 

2. ARP head studs. Weird size - about $750 last time I checked.

 

3. O-ring the block. Finding someone that can do this is the challenge. Many machine shops will not want to try. After getting a rediculous quote on a Suzuki Samurai engine a friend of mine built his own tool and o-ringed the block himself. Turned out very nice but I doubt you have the neccesary skills or tools - lathe and mill and machining experience neccesary.

 

4. Engine managment. Proper management with EGT and cylinder head temp monitoring on both exhaust manifolds and all four cylinders is essential to prevent from cracking the weak EA82T head castings.

 

Figure you will fail at least half a dozen times before you get it right and hit a reliable 200 HP. Just plan for that. I would set aside a minimum of $5,000-$8,000 to start. Just the management side of the equation is going to run over $1000 to do it right.

 

So turn that around in your head for a while and see if it makes sense. For $1000 or less you can get ~180+ HP from a non-turbo high-compression EJ25. It's well documented and has none of the drawbacks, expensive custom parts, or complexity of the EA82T. Also consider that this built EA82T is going to be *lucky* to get 15 MPG - all the extra fuel needed for cooling, etc. While the EJ25 "frankenmotor" will get 25+ MPG and still run circles around your built EA82T.

 

Just depends on where you want to put your money and your time. If you like ancient history and showing off your mad skills by building something like the EA82T (I have yet to see it done properly though I have considered doing it myself just to prove it can be done)...... go for it. But I will be here to say "told you so!" when it blows.

 

GD

[soobie_newbie67]

what does it mean to O-ring the block?

[ruparts]

what does it mean to O-ring the block?

 

if you can find a spyder intake & throttle body from a late 87 to 89 subaru xt , turbo preferably , they are the best intake for a ea-82 , the cams can be reground ( try delta cams) the o-ring block thing is a racing mod , needed for high pressure race motors with superchargers and turbos , if you don't know what that is you are only at the beginning part of a Loonngg learning curve , and you need to do a lot of research and reading before you start shoveling money at a project.

[GeneralDisorder]

the o-ring block thing is a racing mod , needed for high pressure race motors with superchargers and turbos.

 

It also nicely solves the problems with blowing head gaskets on engines for which there does not exist a gasket capable of handling those pressures - of which the EA82(T) is one. Unfortunately those who possess the skill to perform such a mod are unlikely to sell their services cheap and will probably scoff at the idea of even bothering with such a motor. Folks who can do that type of work would have a similar disposition to that engine as I do - there is nothing to gain because Subaru already provided a mass-produced engine that can happily handle 20+ psi of boost without any special work.

 

GD

[soobie_newbie67]

if you can find a spyder intake & throttle body from a late 87 to 89 subaru xt , turbo preferably , they are the best intake for a ea-82 , the cams can be reground ( try delta cams) the o-ring block thing is a racing mod , needed for high pressure race motors with superchargers and turbos , if you don't know what that is you are only at the beginning part of a Loonngg learning curve , and you need to do a lot of research and reading before you start shoveling money at a project.

 

my automotive teacher told me all about the o-ring block thing, so im definitely not going to do that. the number one thing i would like to find is a good set of connecting rods and pistons. for the head gaskets, i have a connection who is going to hook me up with some multi-layer steel headgaskets, the kind of head gaskets they have on dirtbikes and quads.

 

i would love to get a set of those ARP head bolts that GD was talking about, but for now i guess i will just go with OEM ones.

[soobie_newbie67]

I ran 160* t-stat in mine but I only ran it during the summer.

 

There's no company that I know of that make better rods currently but I bet you might be able to get a company to make a few sets IF you have enough people that are willing (not wanting) to buy them. Same with the pistons and rings.

 

Headgaskets.... Well I ran 12psi in my old RX on a SPFI (9.5:1 cr) shortblock with gen 3 turbo heads, TD04 turbo, AEM cold air intake, Megan Racing 3" bellmouth and so on and instead of blowing a headgasket, I blew the ringlands off of #3 piston. I used OEM headgaskets and torqued them down to 75 ft. lbs. roughly

 

damn, i cant believe the HG's held up to that. and how did you get to 75 lbs with out bustin a head bolt off? and were you also running different connecting rods? cause i now for a fact that if you try to go over the 7lb boost that the system already puts out your gonna have problems.

[GeneralDisorder]

my automotive teacher told me all about the o-ring block thing, so im definitely not going to do that.

 

What did he tell you and why are you not considering it? Has he ever even done such a thing that he can talk with authority on the subject?

 

the number one thing i would like to find is a good set of connecting rods and pistons.

 

Did I say anything about rods? No I didn't..... they are not a weak link on the Subaru engines.

 

for the head gaskets, i have a connection who is going to hook me up with some multi-layer steel headgaskets, the kind of head gaskets they have on dirtbikes and quads.

 

Really? Care to share this peice of tech with the rest of the community? Where are they comming from? Unless I'm mistaken, Cometic has been contacted about making gaskets for the EA82T but the cost is very high for the initial capital required to create the intellectual property and the die's, etc.

 

i would love to get a set of those ARP head bolts that GD was talking about, but for now i guess i will just go with OEM ones.

 

The OEM are bolts - which cannot be used for a "performance" torque on the gaskets. They are not designed for it and will rip the threads out of the block - maybe after it's already running

 

GD

[doobieryan]

damn, i cant believe the HG's held up to that. and how did you get to 75 lbs with out bustin a head bolt off? and were you also running different connecting rods? cause i now for a fact that if you try to go over the 7lb boost that the system already puts out your gonna have problems.

 

He said he torqued the heads to 75 ft/lbs. Not 75 psi of boost. That would blow any car engine up. That's what hopped up semi trucks are running.

[soobie_newbie67]

GD, the reason im not going to O-ring the block is 1, cause i is too expensive like you said it would be, 2, there is no machine shop locally that would do it for me cause they dont have the know how, and 3, im not trying to build a 500+hp motor thats gonna be pushing 15+ pounds of boost, hell, i probably wont even up the boost, my friend (god, his name is Tanner, im tired of saying "my friend) tanner is the one who keeps wanting me to up the boost and do all this other ************, like the steel HG, connecting rods, ect. i would just like to keep the motor the way it is. im still going to do the AWIC though, cause i know it will help. and i know YOU didnt say anything about the connecting rods being a problem if i want to up the boost, other people did. this isnt the only website im using for research ya know.

 

but, if you please, would you mind telling me about the connecting rods? would they really hold up to more boost w/o having to buy different ones? hell, instead of upping the boost, could i just up the compression? what would that do to my motor?

 

oh, GD, i google Cometic and checked out their website, found this cool thing that lets you choose what car you want to look for a head gasket for, but under Subaru, the EA82 doesnt show up. would i have to call them about it?

Edited December 15, 2010 by soobie_newbie67

[soobie_newbie67]

He said he torqued the heads to 75 ft/lbs. Not 75 psi of boost. That would blow any car engine up. That's what hopped up semi trucks are running.

 

i specifically said 75 lbs(short for pounds) i didnt say 75 psi did i? i know what i said.

[GeneralDisorder]

3, im not trying to build a 500+hp motor thats gonna be pushing 15+ pounds of boost

 

LOL. 15 psi wouldn't get you anywhere near 500 HP. Might get you to ~175 HP. If you want anything close to 200 HP you will need 20+ psi on an EA82T. Kiss your fuel economy goodbye though. A frankenmotor will make this much power with NO turbo. And will easily fit your engine bay. Just an adaptor plate and a little wireing is all you need. Stop beating - horse is dead. You are the only one on this forum right now that's stubbornly clinging to this engine - why do you suppose that is? Could it be that many people just as intelligent as you have tried, failed, and given up? Have you considered that?

 

but, if you please, would you mind telling me about the connecting rods? would they really hold up to more boost w/o having to buy different ones?

 

Subaru's are short-stroke, large bore engines - they have short, stubby, fat little rods that are quite strong by comparison to say a Honda inline 4. It is not likely that you can make enough power to damage one.

 

hell, instead of upping the boost, could i just up the compression? what would that do to my motor?

 

...... you need to do a lot of reading. You have a steep learning curve ahead of you. It's not that simple and if you want to make changes to your engine and make it work you are going to need to understand the math behind the magic. The biggest differences are:

 

1. The heat of compression - in the case of increased static compression this heat cannot be removed - it is already inside the cylinder. In the case of forced induction this heat CAN be removed via an intercooler (the aluminium intake manifold is a rudimentary intercooler for this discussion). Thus an increase in compression ratio pushes you closer to detonation for a given fuel octane in an unavoidable way. Such is not the case with boost pressure.

 

2. A look at the math shows another problem - which is that cylinder pressure increases linearly with boost pressure but EXPONENTIALLY with increases in compression ratio. An increase from 8.5:1 to 9.5:1 will increase the cylinder pressure by around 100 psi while an increase in boost pressure from 14 to 15 psi will increase the cylinder pressure by only about 15 psi. Pressure and heat create detonation - both are to be avoided for a turbo-charged engine.

 

...... suffice to say you need an understanding of the math in order to properly setup your engine. No good with math? Sorry - you can't play here.

 

oh, GD, i google Cometic and checked out their website, found this cool thing that lets you choose what car you want to look for a head gasket for, but under Subaru, the EA82 doesnt show up. would i have to call them about it?

 

They don't make them. As I said people have asked - it would cost a couple thousand $$ for them to setup the R&D and the dies to produce them. If you wanted to front that money then anyone could order the gaskets (cheaply) once they have the design finalized and have the ability to produce them.

 

GD

Edited December 15, 2010 by GeneralDisorder

[soobie_newbie67]

sorry.

Edited December 15, 2010 by soobie_newbie67
said stuff i wish i hadnt

[Myxalplyx]

also GD, i didnt want to forget to say that everything i asked about getting power from this motor, they were just from curiosity. trust me, im not a tuner, or a ricer for that matter. i dont need tons of power to be happy. just my AWIC and full straight exhaust.

 

Ask and you shall receive. Since you are leaving though, good luck. I hope it works out for you. I still would like to 'try' to get power out of these motors.

 

In case you peep your head in here, here is what little advice I have to offer.

 

1) Tune that baby. Make sure your engine is electrically ok (Disty, grounding, spark plugs, wires, etc,

 

2) Make sure all your cooling is top notch. Oil and water! Good radiator. Good oil/water pumps. No restrictions in passages ways of coolant lines,

 

3) Make sure you have NO fueling issues. Good, high flow fuel pump. Get better flowing injectors or have your stock ones professionally cleaned.

 

Start off at stock boost and monitor your air/fuel ratio and Exhaust Gas Temperature religiously. Take it up one boost at a time.

 

Keep your EGTs no warmer than it would be when it was at stock boost with stock exhaust, intake, etc.

 

That is all!

[GeneralDisorder]

Old (classic ) Subaru's are not a good investment and never will be. Especially not the ubiquitous Subaru wagon from the '80s - even 360's from the 1960's aren't worth much in the scheme of cars in general and those are more rare than any Subaru wagon will be. You want a collectible? Get a Brat. You will be sorely dissapointed in 20 years because that POS is going to be worth maybe a couple grand to someone. When you are 70 years old it might fetch something from a museum - but I doubt it.

 

This thread was started with the object to make "power" with the EA82T - now you are changing the subject to keeping it original.... which is it kid?

 

Yes - I am an rump roast. That's well established. You think leaving hurts our feelings or something? You're a "taker" around here - you ask questions, you search (if we are lucky) and you get frustrated and complain about the answers - how does that help me out? Take a guess...... it doesn't! When *I* have a question to ask of the forum you won't be giving me the answers..... you are lucky I'm nice enough to share what little I have in my previous posts - because I know the favor won't be returned.

 

 

GD

[Qman]

First, Rick is not the smartest person here or in the world when it comes to Subaru. He may just have the most time to post "His" opinions. Which are starting to annoy people again.

 

Second, you need to learn how to weed out the bull5hit.

 

Third, it's the internet. Do not take it seriously or personal. If you don't like the info look somewhere else for someone elses opinion that matches yours. It may not be right either though.

 

With proper maintainence you can get many happy miles from an EA 82(T). You say you want to restore your wagons. Then restore them. Then you say you want to mod them. To get good advice here you will need to be more specific and stick to your plan. You can do one or the other. Both won't work to well. If you find that you do not know or understand what people are referencing then search it up. Maybe Rick can teach you how to search for the answers. He seems to be able to find all the information he does know rather easily. Then you too can sound llike an expert.

[soobie_newbie67]

First, Rick is not the smartest person here or in the world when it comes to Subaru. He may just have the most time to post "His" opinions. Which are starting to annoy people again.

 

Second, you need to learn how to weed out the bull5hit.

 

Third, it's the internet. Do not take it seriously or personal. If you don't like the info look somewhere else for someone elses opinion that matches yours. It may not be right either though.

 

With proper maintainence you can get many happy miles from an EA 82(T). You say you want to restore your wagons. Then restore them. Then you say you want to mod them. To get good advice here you will need to be more specific and stick to your plan. You can do one or the other. Both won't work to well. If you find that you do not know or understand what people are referencing then search it up. Maybe Rick can teach you how to search for the answers. He seems to be able to find all the information he does know rather easily. Then you too can sound llike an expert.

 

thanks for trying to boost my confidence about my cars a little, but i dont think 2 nice people is enough to make me stay. im going to restore these cars as best i can. the one i just bought, 1988 GL-10 wagon, besides needing that head gasket (which was all it needed) is a gem. there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. the interior is spotless, no tears on the seats, still has factory original floor mats inside, floors are spotless, carpet in perfect condition, paint is almost perfect besides the normal rock chips that they all have, im gonna repaint the engine hood.

 

but anyway. i might poke in once in a while to try and look for answers using the search and stuff and read threads, but i dont think i will be posting questions anymore, for GD's sake. i bet we are both on the brink of blowing a head gasket; him because of me, and me because of him.

[GeneralDisorder]

i bet we are both on the brink of blowing a head gasket; him because of me, and me because of him.

 

Doesn't bother me a bit actually. I help those willing to listen. The rest don't have a firm grip on reality and/or have belief systems that don't agree with the mainstream here..... there are always going to be those folks. Eventually they leave or they find out the people here were right and trying to help so they stick around. Sounds like you are leaning toward the former.

 

This is a forum - it's where opinions are expressed and where people go to find answers (which are very often opinions themselves) - you are free to provide your opinions and to also to get out in the garage and try some stuff - prove me wrong!

 

GD

[MilesFox]

You haven't been on here long enough to have the full experience. Please don't go! If you left, someone or yourself will find you back over here anyway, because this is where it all starts.....

 

I feel your sentimentin keeping classic soobs original. They are rare inmy woods, although i can findbetter examples in the junkyards in the PNW, but alas, i am in the rust belt.

 

Good luck with your ea82. There have been successful ones. Just dont go on the fast and furious bandwagon and get all hyped about BOOST, because boost is too easy in a newer car.

[soobie_newbie67]

i've desided to take a break for a while, but would like to get this back on topic, if you all please. i will still be checking on this once in while to see if anyone has posted any new ideas. also, i would like to ask a few "on topic" things before i leave.

 

the question was getting power out of the EA82 turbo engines. but what i would like to re-ask is what can i do to squeeze what i can out of it w/o a lot of money. i have felpro head gaskets like one of the admins had told me to use to make the HG's last longer. and some "more power" things i was gonna do on my own was get rid of the cats and make the exhaust straight so it breaths better, try to get a K&N cone air filter or equivilent, and the air/water inter cooler. anything else someone would like to add would be nice. someone mentioned some monitoring gages or something to keep the exhaust temp in check, and something to keep the head temps in check. also, people have mentioned strict cooling maintainence, like keeping hoses replaced and thermostat replacement.

 

thats really all i can think of/remember.

[moosens]

Forget more power from that turbo. Sounds like you could do well with a simple JDM replacement engine which is what I just did on my now former turbo wagon.

 

Hang in there. I heard they're going to set up GD for a big accident soon anyways.

[GeneralDisorder]

The cats are not restrictive unless they are clogged or damaged, etc. You won't gain anything from gutting the cat and running a striaght-through muffler without also changing how the engine breathes. You will get a louder exhaust - that's it. There is some performance to be had in the down-pipe - a bell-mouth down pipe will help the turbo spool, etc. But that's not a cheap proposition.

 

The cone filter is a bad idea - the K&N filters tend to foul MAF sensors with their oil, etc. You will lose the factory CAI - which is not restrictive at all. Once again it is not the bottle neck - the engine cannot breathe enough with it's tiny little 2-valve heads and stock boost to take advantage of those mods.

 

Neither are where I would spend my money. Best bang for your buck is cams - call Delta Camshaft and talk about your cam options with them.

 

EGT gauges are a good idea. That can warn you of a lean conditon. The Fel-Pro gaskets are good too. And of course you must maintain the cooling system properly.

 

GD

[Turbone]

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=88249&highlight=TD04

 

Listen, if you want to keep it original, dont mod it.

If you have any questions you cant find the answers too searching, send me a PM.

WJM is also a good source of info for the EA82T,

GD is not and is extremely biased, just to name a few things

[Myxalplyx]

Man I love this forum. General's got some good points. Remember bro, these types of questions have been asked what seems like 100's of times to some of us.

 

Get your car in tip top shape before changing anything first. Then, start moving slowing WiTHOUT upping the boost. Add an intercooler. That is a HUGE pluse for your ride. Get a used WRX intercooler or something else.

 

You can see I'm a big fan of making sure what you have is running right and secondly keeping things cool. Get those injectors professionally cleaned. I keep seeing older subarus failing headgaskets by pistons #1 and #3. I've had my injectors cleaned by RC Engineering (Sent them out) from my RX turbo and my Subaru XT6. Both my #1 and #3 injectors were in poor shape but they were cleaned and repaired and flowed well. The cars seemed to run fine before sending them out but you just never know. Rule out anything that can cause a problems before trying to gain more horsepower. In doing so, your car will run better and you'll probably 'gain' some horsepower.

 

You could ask around for a Techworks turbokit. I still have mine but I ain't giving it up. Saving it for someone like you who fixed up your ride and then get tired of it. Just installing a Techworks turbokit gained me around 35whp. GT14 turbo, uppipe, downpipe and exhaust. This with an intercooler. But I tried to make sure everything was cool before doing this. Even with the cleaned injectors, it was still running lean in the midrange. Gotta take it slowly!

 

Send WJM a PM. He went boost crazy and got really good numbers out of his stock engine. Others have as well. I never got a chance to turn the boost up before my RX rusted to death but the folks here guided me along very well. Don't take what they say with a grain of salt. It will be painful on your pockets and experience if you do.