CVT Owners: Are You Impressed?

[gbhrps]

I've owned an OBW LTD from each of the first three generations, and its coming time for me to upgrade to the present generation. What has me concerned is the CVT option.

 

So, you owners with the CVT out there, ......... how do you like it? Would you buy another Subie so equipped?

 

Many thanks for your input!

[carfreak85]

Stay away from the CVT. Unless you like spending time at the dealer. Do a google search on subaru CVT recalls or TSBs.

[GeneralDisorder]

If/when they get the bugs worked out I think it's going to be a great transmission. From what I've read it's an excelent concept and the way they resurrected the reeves drive variable speed system makes me smile. I'm hoping the early versions just have some simple bugs that they will address.

 

GD

[Fuzpile]

Yeh Reeves! Seems like they should have it right by now. I remember an early article in 1967-71 Popular Mechanics. Some little Dutch car, DAF, iirc had them. Well actually it was cones but same principle.

[Mugs]

The Justy had a cvt tranny. I have two co workers who both own 2010 OTB and they both really like the CVT tranny. And from what I have read it seem to be a winner for suby....too bad this years styling wasn't :-\

[carfreak85]

As an engineer, I don't like the idea of metal slipping on metal, even if its in a fluid bath. Several manufacturers have attempted to install CVTs in their vehicles, all have failed.

 

The problem is not with the CVT design itsself, but that the manufacturers assume that the end user is more intelligent than they really are.

 

If the general population babied their cars the way Subaru hopes they do, no CVTs die. If American treat their new CVT-powered OB like the then-new STIs in 2004, yeah, everything is going to get replaced at some point.

 

Subaru offers a 6 speed on legacys and OBs now, go with that. Tried, true, better mileage, more driver control, safer. End of story.

[GeneralDisorder]

The Subaru CVT is different than any other CVT design I've seen in recent years. It's a chain-driven Reeves Drive. I don't think you can compare it to the other stuff on the market right now.

 

GD

[carfreak85]

GD - Just did a quick search to identify exactly what a Reeves CVT is... Unfortunately, this "Reeves" drive CVT is in fact also known as the "crappy type", known to fail in just about every application they are installed in.

 

You are probably thinking of a Extroid CVT or a Cone CVT.

 

CVTs are great in concept, but I have yet to see one "over-built" enough to cope with the rigors of a non-laboratory environment. For a CVT to be reliable (a.k.a. last the life of the vehicle) they will need to be double the size of a current automatic slush-box.

 

Besides, using your left foot for a clutch will better balance your musculature.

[Subarupusher]

Have it on my new Outback and I am impressed in terms of mileage and it really makes our old Impreza feel clunky by comparison when you go back to driving the old Subaru AT.

 

Don't forget that the Prius uses a variant of the CVT and this does not worry people as much as mysterious accelerations and how long the batteries will last.

 

So far the CVT Subarus sell almost as fast as they arrive and they have the highest resale value. I know of one Legacy CVT that depreciated 7% when traded in after one year.

 

My guess is the old AT will be the most bullet proof and that matters for people that want to push 200K on their Subarus. Getting to 120K on a more fuel efficient transmission and then getting a new Subaru works for a lot of owners. At that point there will be a proven Subaru hybrid to purchase with a well tested CVT.

[nipper]

Im just pluggingin in here to watch. I hhave a justy with a ccvt. I have read the other boards, and this one seems to be whine free.

[bulwnkl]

As an engineer, I don't like the idea of metal slipping on metal, even if its in a fluid bath.

So, you don't like hypoid differentials, then? (sorry, couldn't resist)

 

The problem is not with the CVT design itsself, but that the manufacturers assume that the end user is more intelligent than they really are.

 

If the general population babied their cars the way Subaru hopes they do, no CVTs die. If American treat their new CVT-powered OB like the then-new STIs in 2004, yeah, everything is going to get replaced at some point.

 

I find that to be precisely the wrong attitude from any engineer or designer (which I think/hope was your point?). You don't under-design a machine and then tell people then have to re-learn how to do something they've been doing all their lives just so that the poorly-designed machine will last a decently-long time. You design the machine to handle what people actually do with it/them. /rant

[bstone]

I swear I had a dream about this last night. People were asking me about CVTs and I said how I thought the technology wasn't there yet.

[carfreak85]

Don't forget that the Prius uses a variant of the CVT and this does not worry people as much as mysterious accelerations and how long the batteries will last.

 

Mmmmmmm, no, it doesn't. That is a planetary gear set. It acts in a similar way to a CVT, but is much different. In fact, it is the exact same type of transmission found in nearly all automatic tranmissions, since, well, when the auto was invented. Hell, the Ford Model T used a planetary gear set for god's sake...

 

http://eahart.com/prius/psd/ <--- This has a nice gif of a planetary gear set and the site explains the Prius' "power split device"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive <--- Explains how 'Yota hybrids operate

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhFK5g*********pM <--- Short video explaining CVT operation

 

Don't get me started on the Prius.

[rverdoold]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhFK5g*********pM <--- Short video explaining CVT operation

 

 

Video is rather dead!

Every scooter over here uses a cvt annoyingly because the kids can do only one thing. Full throttle = full rpm for all the time = tons of noise.

 

Interestingly the CVT is not an option in Holland, sorry it is only in the outback

Edited December 27, 2010 by rverdoold

[nipper]

So, you don't like hypoid differentials, then? (sorry, couldn't resist)

 

 

 

I find that to be precisely the wrong attitude from any engineer or designer (which I think/hope was your point?). You don't under-design a machine and then tell people then have to re-learn how to do something they've been doing all their lives just so that the poorly-designed machine will last a decently-long time. You design the machine to handle what people actually do with it/them. /rant

 

 

The original subaru CVT was killed by drivers who drove like... drivers. They do not fully stop when chaining direction, that tore up the drums. They also never used Ds for heavy traffic or hills that burned out the electric clutches.

 

As long as there is lubricant or some sort of lubricating properties ( the metal gears may look dry but they have properties in the metal that allow them to operate without lube in some applications) they will be fine.

 

You can never design for the idiots. You design for the majority of the end useres, not the dummies (to which most are when it comes to cars).

 

The CVT is an ancient technology. Subaru has had them since the 60's just not here. They have extensive knowledge on how it works. one day they just didnt decide to poop one out.

 

The only issue subaru has had so far with them is that they had torecalibrate the reverse gear "ratio" as it was too steep and in someconditions the car would not move uphill backwards.

I have heard of only one being replaced due to a failure, and that is about par for any new car where 10.000's are made.

 

People have been getting way over the rated highway MPG with them, and are very happy with them. There is always the ones who complain about automatics.

 

There are quite a few CVTs that work like sooby, and others that use cones. They are hitting over 100K now with no issues.

[rverdoold]

Honestly the first thing I read about subaru when i was young that it they were made by Fuji Heavy Industries which was well known for making CVTs.

[bulwnkl]

Thanks for the info, nipper. To be clear, my rant was directed at the poster's assertion of what Subaru's design 'aim' or 'goal' is. I have no way to judge what Subaru's actual design goal is.

 

The thing about not stopping before changing direction gear is familiar to me: My spouse prefers to discontinue her rearward progress by throwing the gear selector into "D." Coaching has not been terribly useful.

 

I am glad that people are far exceeding EPA mpg ratings with Subie's CVTs. I think I've said before that I love the theory of CVTs. Having driven a few, including the brand-newest Legacy just weeks ago, I don't like them as well in practice. Perhaps with a certain amount of 'conditioning' I could learn to like them more? Won't know for some years, as we bought a Hyundai instead. :ducks behind large rock: