plodder Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 This time, my 1996 leg out sw (wife's:dead:) blew a fuse, I replaced it, it started and I shut it off. I went to start it again, the fuse was fried (sbf 2, 30amp in fender main box). I had my wife crank, since it was dark, I could see arcing on my motor!!!. It turned out to be my starter was loose and my unattached hill brake cable was touching the starter and arching, acting as a ground I think. So I tightened the starter(no more arching) , put wires to jump as a fuse replacement, but no start. Tomarrow I will put to test what I learned on my last adventure and test to see if I am getting power to ECU. I am hoping that I somehow did not fry my ECU. If so I will need a 2.2 96/97 ecu, I have a 97 2.5 ECU I can trade. Thanks Dann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 (edited) If you inserted a jumper wire in place of the fuse you may now have a more serious problem if the short was still on the line. The arcing from the starter shouldn't cause the fuse to blow. The power to the starter really isn't fused at all, it runs directly to it. I think fuse SBF-2 ties to some engine sensors like the O2 sensor among some other things like the Main Relay. The wiring to it may have touched the exhaust piping and shorted out. I doubt that the ECU is causing the shorting problem. You could disconnect it to prove that. In order to help you find this trouble I suggest you purchase a wiring diagram for the vehicle. You really need it for a guide unless you get lucky and find the short. Edited December 17, 2010 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plodder Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 sbf-2 is the "always on", to the ECU. And I have replaced the fuse, and have power to my ecu. I have changed my crank case sensor, and will change my coil igniter in 20 min. I will need to get an ECU 8D regardless if it is the issue. I will next look for any links to track down the information I need, just in case 8D doen't actually mean anything. It is for a ej2.2 motor 96. But I believe it is the ecu, and no way to tell as far as I know, am checking everything else. Good thing I have a 88 wagon that runs fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plodder Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 No the ECU is not causing any sparking issues, I had sparking issues, and had fuses blowing, fixed sparking from loose starter no being gounded properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 If you replaced fuse SBF-2 with a jumper wire at one point it may have caused the trouble on the line to burn out the shorting condition and you dodged a bullet. If that is the case whatever was being supplied voltage past the shorting point most likely won't be working now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plodder Posted December 20, 2010 Author Share Posted December 20, 2010 Yes, and no bullets dodged here..... My car (wife's )no work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 Hopefully you didn't damage the power distribution wiring too badly. The trouble may be with the wiring after the Main Relay. It supplies power to the O2 sensors and some engine solenoids along with some other things. The relay should be behind the interior fuse panel just below the the fuel pump relay. The Main Relay is the square one. Remove the relay from the socket and see if the fuse dosen't blow out then. I assume the fuse blew out only when you turned the ignition switch to RUN. If so that means the ECU is ok since power is always running to it, even if the switch is OFF. It is the Main Relay that gets turned on when the ignition is turned on so the trouble is on the Main Relay circuit. It is common for the wiring to the O2 sensors to run across the exhaust pipes which burns the insolation and causes a short on the power lead coming from the Main Relay contacts. This is one possibility at least. The trouble could be with one of the engine solenoids power leads also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 Crankcase sensor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plodder Posted December 27, 2010 Author Share Posted December 27, 2010 Ok. My fuses have not blown after I tightened the starter motor the night it 1st had no spark. I had a known good crankcase sensor and coil igniter, so I replaced those. I cannot find any fried wires at the bottom of my main relay box. Let me recap in a better, more informed attempt. Wife calls, car will not start. The fuse sb 2 blows. So i replaced it with what I thought was a weaker than 30 amp fusable link. I have since found out that fusable links are not rated the same and that I used one that has a higher than 45 amp equivalency. That is when I have my wife crank and I watch the engine compartment and see what I believe was the beggining of my problems. The starter is loose and arcing, so I tighten it, and no more arcing. I notice that now, not only is sb 2 fuse(the link I put in) but now the sb 6 45 amp fuse is blown. I replace both fuses, and there is no spark, no more blown fuses. So, I believe I fried a wire or sensor. I am going to look at those relays, you mentioned and the O2 sensor short. Is there anything else new , you can tell me to look at, now that I have put this down better?:-\ I then put in the replacement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 (edited) Check the fusible link in the main fuse box to see if it has burned. Unplug it and try to tug it apart from the ends using moderate force. If should feel solid. If it's stretchy or breaks it's blown. SBF 6 provides power for the ABS motor/control module, and the TCS motor relay. If one of those has an internal short or one of the motors is locked that's generally what will cause that fuse to blow. This could also be mouse damage. SBF 2 gives power to the Main relay, ECM, Fuel pump relay, and OBD2 service connector. The main relay distributes power to several sensors on the engine, as well as the fuel injectors, but nothing ignition related. This being blown would mean the engine doesn't get any fuel. Are you sure it is spark that you don't have? Not fuel? But the same story here, something would have to be shorted or pulling a high draw to blow that fuse. Although as slow blow fuses age they become weaker and can blow out at any time. Ignition-wise, both the Ignitor and Ignition coil get power from fuse number 16 in the interior fuse panel. Is any of this related to the starter cable being loose, that's hard to say. Loads of electrical current hopping around and arcing can create a ton of problems. I'd like to think this is just coincidence, but the timing sure is convenient. Any of the circuits on the engine could have backfed current from the starter back to the fuse box and popped fuses and relays. It's hard to say though. I'd check over all of the fuses, including the interior panel, and double check that nothing else is blown. Edited December 27, 2010 by Fairtax4me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plodder Posted December 27, 2010 Author Share Posted December 27, 2010 alrighty then! I just checked, and I have .49 volts feeding back on sb 2 on the non-power end when the fuse is out and the ecu not attached. I have a short somewhere, and the starter arcing may have bled and blown something. I think it blew the fuse 1st by some internal short in my harness. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Do you have power to the fuel injectors? The injectors gournd through the ECU. If you have a dea short, pull out all the fuses, With the car offlook for no resistance to ground. NExt follow the cables and disconnect downstream connectors and repeat on each pin. If you get continuity unplug one thing at a time on that harness and see if it goes away. Look for wires that run near anything hot. This is why electrical wires charge by the hour. My freind has a 2000 dodge pickup that keeps draining the battery. No one can find the problem, so he is trading it on and making it the dealers problem. It is either that or fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 The fuse is most likely blowing out when the ignition is turned on. The Main Relay turns on then and supplies power to the O2 sensors and various engine solenoids which most likely is were the trouble is located. If the fuse doesn't blow out until the the ignition is turned ON then the fault is after the Main Relay. To prove that you could pull the Main Relay and see if a new fuse works ok then. Nipper: You should be able to find the trouble with your friends truck in short order I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 The fuse is most likely blowing out when the ignition is turned on. The. Nipper: You should be able to find the trouble with your friends truck in short order I would think. I tried. I thought I had it pinned down but I do not have a wiring diagram for the truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 I tried. I thought I had it pinned down but I do not have a wiring diagram for the truck. I think you can get that info at a locale library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 I tried. I thought I had it pinned down but I do not have a wiring diagram for the truck. Who needs a wiring diagram? It's a Dodge, a gallon of gas and a match will fix it just like new. To find a short, hook up your meter and pull each fuse, one at a time, until you find which one cuts the voltage. If none of them do, it might be a short in the fuse panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Who needs a wiring diagram? It's a Dodge, a gallon of gas and a match will fix it just like new. To find a short, hook up your meter and pull each fuse, one at a time, until you find which one cuts the voltage. If none of them do, it might be a short in the fuse panel. Comon give some credit I am an auto tech and engineer.... And yes I have strongly suggested that maybe the wires are too "cold" and need some "warming" up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Nipper is one of the best electrical troubleshooters we have on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 Nipper is one of the best electrical troubleshooters we have on this site. Shocking aint it. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plodder Posted December 30, 2010 Author Share Posted December 30, 2010 ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 For giggles... have an extra ECU around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Comon give some credit I am an auto tech and engineer.... And yes I have strongly suggested that maybe the wires are too "cold" and need some "warming" up That second part was meant as a reply to Plodders post. I could have made that a bit more clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 That second part was meant as a reply to Plodders post. I could have made that a bit more clear. Well i did not want to suggest using a carbon based fuel source for anything drastic other then heating the wires. Goodness knows how those things can easily get out of control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plodder Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 Ok, relay inhibitors, where are they will they inhibit my spark. Also on a side note. My friends legacy wagon will not start with no spark, he found out the other day that it will compression start though...Any fine ideas on this matter??? I've been looking at a good wiring diagram set, but I do not know what and where everything is. I am planning to track the wires down, but would like to have locations on all these relays 1st. Thanks, Dann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I am a little confused about what you are saying. Are you getting spark to the plugs? Also, are all the fuses back in and working ok? All the fuses need to be installed to provide power to various systems critical for the engine to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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