Frankenmotor, whats the big deal?

[MilesFox]

I am reading this and am assuming you are referring to 1st and 2nd gen ej22e heads?

 

and if so, does it use the composite or MLS head gaskets?

[1-3-2-4]

I have seen in several threads the mention of Delta Cams. I went to their website but could not find any information on pricing. Anyone have any info about cost?

 

Do you send them your cam and they re-grind it for you?

 

I wanted to get a ball park number for doing the DOHC cams.. is $250 sounding like too much?

 

I wanted to do the cams on my Ej22 but I changed.

[GeneralDisorder]

It's about $80 per cam give or take. So the DOHC's would be about $320.... as I said give or take.

 

GD

[987687]

I am reading this and am assuming you are referring to 1st and 2nd gen ej22e heads?

 

and if so, does it use the composite or MLS head gaskets?

 

Use head gaskets that match the block.

[renob123]

I am reading this and am assuming you are referring to 1st and 2nd gen ej22e heads?

 

and if so, does it use the composite or MLS head gaskets?

 

You can use whatever head gaskets you want. I used MLS for obvious reasons.

 

Jacob

[renob123]

Use head gaskets that match the block.

 

I'm pretty sure I used the ones that matched the heads. With an open deck, it doesn't matter where the coolant passages are. You don't want to block off the passages in the heads, though, so you get the ones that match the head. Unless, of course, I'm missing something.

 

Jacob

[987687]

I'm pretty sure I used the ones that matched the heads. With an open deck, it doesn't matter where the coolant passages are. You don't want to block off the passages in the heads, though, so you get the ones that match the head. Unless, of course, I'm missing something.

 

Jacob

 

ej25 has a bigger bore, so the gaskets need to match the bore.

[renob123]

ej25 has a bigger bore, so the gaskets need to match the bore.

 

Oh, ok. I sort of thought I was missing something obvious when I was typing that out.

 

Jacob

[Suba9792]

Ok, so I was out at GD's place today doin some exhaust stuff and he decided to give me a little ride in the franken brat...with the JDM STi tranny, holly crap! grip like no other and the thing has torque written all over it. Goin down I205 was nuts. Anyone questioning the power of one of these builds is a fool IMO:lol: its not like anything I have ever been in and I've been in some fast cars. I'm glad to say I was able to contribute a little to the build with the 5th gear from my old trans, little power house.

[renob123]

Ok, so I was out at GD's place today doin some exhaust stuff and he decided to give me a little ride in the franken brat...with the JDM STi tranny, holly crap! grip like no other and the thing has torque written all over it. Goin down I205 was nuts. Anyone questioning the power of one of these builds is a fool IMO:lol: its not like anything I have ever been in and I've been in some fast cars. I'm glad to say I was able to contribute a little to the build with the 5th gear from my old trans, little power house.

 

Closed course, professional driver, I'm sure:rolleyes:

 

You actually contributed 5th gear and the case, I thought. The STI gearset and fancy diffs actually makes it feel a lot more controlled than it did before. Your 5th gear is a little odd. I thought it would be more of a cruising/fuel economy gear, but it actually has enough power behind it. I have yet to have to downshift from 5th for a hill or anything.

 

I just wish more people knew how gutless a stock Brat is, that way more people would flip a lid when I go by:lol:

 

Jacob

[bheinen74]

well, trust me, going from about 6 or so Turbo Legacies, to a CA spec BRAT, i was like, huh. hills sucks, passing is thought to not even try, etc.

 

no fears, still got a ej22t longblock and the crossmember sitting on the shelf with only 85k on it, but there are no mechanical problems on the old brats ea81, and it doesnt use or leak oil etc, only 129k on it.

 

I have replaced the stock CA spec hitachi with a Weber, and it is still gutless, but i was able to pass a ea82 going 75 and we both had 27.5 inch tall offroads on and lift.

 

 

 

Closed course, professional driver, I'm sure:rolleyes:

 

You actually contributed 5th gear and the case, I thought. The STI gearset and fancy diffs actually makes it feel a lot more controlled than it did before. Your 5th gear is a little odd. I thought it would be more of a cruising/fuel economy gear, but it actually has enough power behind it. I have yet to have to downshift from 5th for a hill or anything.

 

I just wish more people knew how gutless a stock Brat is, that way more people would flip a lid when I go by:lol:

 

Jacob

[987687]

My FI ea81 is pretty gutless...

 

Speaking of frankenmotors, I'm going to be making one with delta cams for my legacy.

[renob123]

well, trust me, going from about 6 or so Turbo Legacies, to a CA spec BRAT, i was like, huh. hills sucks, passing is thought to not even try, etc.

 

no fears, still got a ej22t longblock and the crossmember sitting on the shelf with only 85k on it, but there are no mechanical problems on the old brats ea81, and it doesnt use or leak oil etc, only 129k on it.

 

I have replaced the stock CA spec hitachi with a Weber, and it is still gutless, but i was able to pass a ea82 going 75 and we both had 27.5 inch tall offroads on and lift.

 

Brats feel a lot more tank-like than more powerful Subarus. Mine also feels more connected to the road. I love that I can floor it in the Brat wherever I go and nothing bad happens. If I try that in my other car, I'll end up in a ditch/yard with at least $5k in damage.

 

When my Brat was stock, I took it on a 500 mile trip one weekend. Something happened halfway through, and on a major hill coming home, I kept having to downshift. I started getting worried when I downshifted to 1st, because after that, there were no more gears:confused:

 

Have you done the mounts yet?

 

Jacob

[The Dude Abides]

well, trust me, going from about 6 or so Turbo Legacies, to a CA spec BRAT, i was like, huh. hills sucks, passing is thought to not even try, etc.

 

no fears, still got a ej22t longblock and the crossmember sitting on the shelf with only 85k on it, but there are no mechanical problems on the old brats ea81, and it doesnt use or leak oil etc, only 129k on it.

 

I have replaced the stock CA spec hitachi with a Weber, and it is still gutless, but i was able to pass a ea82 going 75 and we both had 27.5 inch tall offroads on and lift.

I let you pass me.

[Suba9792]

More connected to the road is an understatement, more like glued....until a small bit of gravel:lol:

[suprunner]

I've got a ej22 from a '93 legacy in my Loyale; any problems running those components with a 2.5 block? Many folks talk about ecu management systems...

[Gloyale]

 

ej25 has a bigger bore, so the gaskets need to match the bore.

 

Gaskets need to match the bore AND the coolant passages in the head.

 

No stock gasket correctly does this.

 

What you need are these. 

 

Cometic Part number: H1631spk051s

[lmdew]

Interesting so they actually make a HG just for this application?

[zombieforce]

I did this swap in my outback and wasnt impressed. Tt he auto trans sucks up too much poer to feel a difference. I did not install the delta cams or do an exhaust either so that may be part of it. I just picked up a forester yesterday and I am considering dropping the franken motor I to it after replaci g the cams with delta torque grind cams. It has a5 speed and is a lighter car so I think it will be better suited to this engine. I used the 2.5 mls hg and if I don't run premium it will ping some so my compression is a bit higher than using the appropriate cometic gasket I believe.

[comatosellama]

 

I can't be totally sure, but it looks like your confusion comes from this part^^^.

 

Frankenmotors are for people who already have an EJ22 in their car. You don't add the heads of an EJ22 because you'd already have those. You're just slipping in a different block. That block is bigger and gives you higher compression.

 

The (or one of the) godfathers of the Frankenmotor says to not add EJ22 heads if you already have an EJ25 in your car. It sounds like you do, so the Frankenmotor is not intended for you. You already have the bigger displacement that the Frankenmotor builders are seeking. Your heads also flow better. Apparently the increased compression of adding EJ22 heads does not outweigh the loss of flow.

 

Jacob

I have an EJ25 and I'm planning on biulding one of these... Or a ej22d

[Van Quixote]

Frankemotor friends!  I'm trying to get a freaky Frankenmotor going and have a question:

Will an ej22 from 1997 Legacy work with a 2002 ej25 for a Frankenmotor?

I pulled an ej22 and harness out of a 1997 Legacy and was going to rebuild it.  Then I managed to find and buy a rebuilt block from a sohc ej25.  The only thing I know about the ej25 was that “it works with a harness from a 2002 Subaru.”

I’m trying to find out if I can put the head, intake, etc. (and use the harness) from the 1997 ej22 and put it on this ej25. I’ve done a fair amount of research, but can’t find conclusive info.  Any help and info would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks,
-bob

[suprunner]

3 hours ago, Van Quixote said:

Frankemotor friends!  I'm trying to get a freaky Frankenmotor going and have a question:

Will an ej22 from 1997 Legacy work with a 2002 ej25 for a Frankenmotor?

I pulled an ej22 and harness out of a 1997 Legacy and was going to rebuild it.  Then I managed to find and buy a rebuilt block from a sohc ej25.  The only thing I know about the ej25 was that “it works with a harness from a 2002 Subaru.”

I’m trying to find out if I can put the head, intake, etc. (and use the harness) from the 1997 ej22 and put it on this ej25. I’ve done a fair amount of research, but can’t find conclusive info.  Any help and info would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks,
-bob

I responded to your other post, but I figured this would help stimulate more content too... 

Personally, I wouldn't put that block and those heads together. I WOULD use that 2.5L SOHC block to mate with 25D heads though. I think a lot of folks do the EJ22 heads/intake on 2.5D block. I've done that, and I wasn't very impressed. The heads do not flow very well, and power was lost above 3500 rpm for me. Lots of Low-end torque, almost like a truck though.  I am now running a 2.5L block from a 2001 Impreza (SOHC) with heads from a '97 Outback (2.5L DOHC; Found the heads for $600 reconditioned from SuperRupair in Boulder, CO. I'd call and talk to Doug. See if he has anything on hand. Their used warehouse is worth a visit. They have shelves, 10-foot tall full of 2.5L heads, and anything else you can dream of. I'm not sure if they'll ship, but it's worth a shot). 

  + STI MLS headgaskets. The power is above and beyond what the other motor had. It has consistent power/gain/pull all the way to 6000 rpm. If it wasn't in a legacy wagon, I think it would give some stock wrx's a fun run. Whatever you do though, the intake/heads have to match the wiring/ECU. So for anything pre-SOHC you need that spec intake/heads...My legacy is also a big pile of rust now, and I'm looking to move the motor to a donor. I'm constrained to pre-1999 though with this intake/heads choice. Once you go to SOHC-land (post-1999), I'm unfamiliar with what can be used for high-compression builds. 

 

Greg

[Van Quixote]

Thanks for your reply, Greg.  And if anyone else has any input, I would very much appreciate it as I am a total greenhorn when it comes to Subaru engines.  I’m really trying to figure out the best way forward given my specific circumstances.

THE GOAL:
In the end, I intend on swapping out the 1.9L waterboxer engine currently in my 1984 VW Westfalia with whatever Subaru engine I can put together with the parts I have and the least amount of additional investment.

From what I’ve read about Frankenmotors, the Westfalia crowd seems to love them.  And the EJ25 seems to be a fine engine to use as well.  Considering that the Westy is a rather heavy vehicle and not very aerodynamic, the torque seems to be of higher value than the top speed.

THE SPECIFICS:
I pulled a complete ej22 engine (w/ block, head, intake and all components) alongside the harness (w/ ecu & sensors) out of a 1997 Legacy with over 200,000 miles on it.  My original plan was to rebuild this one down to the block and put it into the van.  A ton of work, to be sure.

Then I came across a very affordable sohc ej25 block and head (it does have the timing components, but no intake or other top of engine miscellany) that was completely rebuilt.  If I use this, it would obviously save me a ton of time and energy that I would have spent rebuilding the ej22.  There is one kicker to the ej25 engine.  It seems to need some valve work (according to PO) and lost compression after a few miles of driving it after the install on PO’s vehicle.  At that point, he switched directions and sold the engine to me.  I do not know the year or make of the vehicle the ej25 was pulled from, only that “it will work with a harness from a 2002.”

So that’s ALL the info.  And here’s

THE CROSSROADS:

- Will the ej22 head, intake and harness from the 1997 Lagacy work with this sohc ej25 block that I know nothing about besides “it will work with a harness from a 2002”?
- If so, should I rebuild the head and make a Frankenmotor?
- If the ej22 top end and harness will work with this ej25 block, this seems to be the most affordable way to go about it.

OR

- Go full ej25?
- Should I troubleshoot the valve issue on the ej25 and just try to finish this engine out?
- Would the ej22 intake, top of motor components, etc. work on the ej25?
- Would the ej22 harness from a 1997 Legacy work on this ej25 or do I need a new harness (sensors, ecu)?
- If I can’t use any of the ej22 components, might I be able to swap them (and the entire engine, for that matter) out with someone who has some ej25 parts to spare?

I know this is a very specific pickle, I’m in and I appreciate that there are people who LOVE solving these types of riddles.  I have done a bunch of research but would love as much input as possible.  I don’t want to end up doing unnecessary work.  But I’m not afraid of work.  I rebuilt the waterboxer currently in there and have done a ton of other work on the van.  Thanks again!
-bob

PS. TL/DR haha

[el_freddo]

Hey Bob,

I've replied in your other thread - but finding out that one cylinder is down on compression that throws a red flag for me. 

How do you know that the issue is a valve? It could be the piston, rings or worst of all the bore. 

You can certainly build the franken motor you talk about but I don't know how well this will run as a result as I've not built one of these engines... Yet.

I'll leave off here for others to add to. But like I've said in your other thread the ej22 intake, heads, sensors and timing gear will bolt on and run that ej25 block.

I'd hate for you to put it all together only to find an issue with that cylinder that's down on compression.

Cheers

Bennie

[Van Quixote]

I appreciate your help and input, Bennie.

As was told to me, the PO contacted the company that did the rebuild and they felt that the issue was with the valves and had the PO tweak the valves.  The PO got it running, but decided not to continue tweaking it (due to unrelated life-based time constraints that left him no time to work on it further) and just went out and got another rebuilt engine. So the PO unloaded the engine cheap.  Along with whatever valve/compression issues come along with it.  Ignorance abounds!  Haha.