ladybaja Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I have a 2003 Subaru Baja. I took it in to a mechanic because it was making a popping noise whe I would turn into parking spots. The mechanic said it had something to do with the all wheel drive and told me I was better off taking it to a Subaru dealer. So I took it to the dealer they confidently told me I needed an all new "transfer clutch" and that I needed all new tires since there was one that was a little older on my car and that is what caused all of the problems (even though I read that as long as all for tires were certain size and not off by xxx amount I was ok with a different tire). Note: I did call another Subaru dealership to get a second quote and they had no idea what a "transfer clutch" was and only knew of a "transfer case". I paid $2,100 and they supposedly gave me an all new transfer clutch and 4 new tires. Well instantly it was doing the exact same thing. I took it back and they have had it for 4 days. First they said they were doing transmission flush to see if that was it. They did one flush and said it was better but wanted to do another the next day. Now they say it is only doing the popping a little bit and that when they had put the transfer clutch in they noticed an additive in the transmission fluid and they think it was gunking up the transmission/ transfer clutch. I asked them if I really needed a new transfer clutch if doing the transmission flush is what seems to be fixing it... no really definitive answer. Then they said that the additive might have messed up my car so much that I will eventually need a new transmission. I have no remembrance of anyone ever putting an additive in my car... but to be honest all this car stuff is over my head. Help! What should I do? Does all this sound right? I already paid them and they are not charging me for the transmission flush, however, it just does not make since to me that my car should be acting the same way after the new part that was supposedly broken on it was installed. Should I pick it up only somewhat working properly? What should I do? Does anyone know of anywhere in St. Louis I should take it to get a second opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 it is hard to say what was causing your ''popping'' when turning. it could have been the ''transfer clutch'' or it could have been the mis-matched tire. or maybe an axle, that would have been my guess, but probably not. but here's the problem now. you paid for a repair, more than the going rate, but you did get new tires so that eliminates some of the over charge, you paid and they failed to repair it. now they are tinkering with your car and will probably fix it but you paid for something you did not need. i would be very upset. there is no reason for them to have not fixed it the first time correctly. i would ask for your money back. they failed to fulfill their half of the contract. and even if they fix it now, as you said, you didn't need what they did. i'd go get the car before they say you need a trans. the line about the additive is just an excuse to justafy working on it more so they can find the real problem. and they say the flush has helped and is needed, but you have no way of knowing unless you drive it. some one here had their transfer clutch rebuilt for 900$ at the dealer 4 or 5 years ago. tires are $400 - $500 max.(mine were ~$375) they overcharged you and didn't fix it. good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) print this thread out (or the hundreds of others about torque bind and show it to them). Tell them hundreds of subaru hobbyists know how to fix this and have had other dealers repair it for $500 and you get hosed? Why the discrepancy? Why not a correct diagnosis? Clutches are really easy to diagnose, no need to guess or get it wrong. wow do you know any lawyers? if this is true and a few assumptions are correct then it's one of the worst rip off's i've heard. - if this is torque bind you got really hosed....and it sounds like it's torque bind if it's "getting better" with fluid changes (see below). i would document all of what we say here and google stuff, find out some part prices and go talk to them, that's robbery. this should have cost you about $500 (see below). First - they completely hosed the diagnosis. I'm not sure why, this is fairly common, I've fixed a bunch of these myself and I'm not even a mechanic. When you have torque bind (the common diagnosis of what you're describing - you can google that), there are two causes of torque bind and 3 possible solutions. 1. Often times fluid changes alone will fix it. You ALWAYS start there. If a fluid change fixes it, why do any invasive surgery? 2. Duty C failure - it's just a solenoid - about $150 from Subaru 3. Transfer clutches get notched/stick - replace those, $100 or something in parts. It's REALLY easy to determine what the problem is. If the FWD fuse works, then the Duty C solenoid is fine. If the FWD fuse does not get rid of the torque bind then the clutches are bad. You could go verify that right now in about 5 minutes. In the engine bay on the passengers side by the strut tower is a FWD fuse holder - if a fuse is inserted in there it forces the transmission into FWD mode. If the issue doesn't go away with the fuse (as I'm suspecting) then your Duty C is failing (assuming this is torque bind). Some folks, since the parts aren't that expensive, just replace the clutches and duty C solenoid at the same time - there's no extra work they're all in there next to each other, so just replace it all and be done with it. Sounds to me like they just guessed - not completely flushing the fluid (you'd get a partial fluid change doing the work they did), but not all of it out. So they guessed wrong (I am assuming, maybe they did some diagnostics - but doesn't sound like it since we on here fix this stuff all the time and they didnt' get it right). So they didn't change the fluid first for $100 like many of us have fixed these, then they guessed wrong on your $2,100 repair.....that's just horribly deficient. I mean, if it was like your neighbor and some unexperienced bunghead, that's one thing - but you woudl think a dealer should be able to do this properly. There's no way to mis-diagnose rear transfer clutches, it's very simple. They might as well just replace your brake caliper because your tire was bad? Labor for Duty C solenoid and transfer clutches is essentially equivalent as they're all in the same housing. I just posted on here what Subaru dealer in Atlanta GA charged my friend to fix his torque bind this past summer. The labor was only like $250 or something, I have a thread posted here about the price you could find it. At $250 labor and $120 for the part that's $370 for the same job you paid $2,100 for. Absolutely insane just from a price perspective, regardless of the fact that they didn't even fix it right - so they charged you $2,100 for nothing! *** I hope those are some really nice $1,500 tires? He followed my diagnosis suggestions above and his is fixed. side note - all of the components we're talking about don't even require removing the transmission, this is not a hard job to do at all - a bunch of us on here have done it before, posted pictures, etc. Edited January 7, 2011 by grossgary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 pic of transfer clutch, drum with clutch plates inside of it and the duty-c solenoid with the green wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Every auto soob (4eat) i have driven will make a slight rumbling noise when making tight slow maneuvers such as parking or u-turns. Based on my experience with many soobs, i deem this as normal since none of these cars were in a state of failure, and perform flawlessly otherwise. suppose you are speculating an issue out of something that you are not familiar with, but is otherwise normal, and therefore paying money for repairs that are not necessary by folks who are not familiar with this vehicle. if anything, new tires. i would not worry about the b=rumbling sound, unless you are getting wheel lockup, lurching, and crabbing. The little bit of rumbling you hear is the normal operation of the rear transfer clutches releasing bind on dry pavement, where the transfer would be locked in slippery situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladybaja Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Thank you for all of the posts. They helped me with dealing with the dealer. I brought a friend with me who knows car stuff just to make sure I was not being taken. So this is what they said. They showed me the transmission fluid and showed me what they pulled out and what they put in. They claim that it is running perfectly after they put the new transfer clutch in and that there was still some of the old transmission fluid that was in it that seemed to gunk it up again. I am still not sure when or if anyone put transmission additive in my car (I have taken it to oil change places and different mechanics). Anyway, they said they did check the transmission fluid before they determined I needed a new transfer clutch... they also put in new solenoid. They explained that 1/4" difference in tread on tires can over the years tear up the transfer clutch and that when mine was pulled out it was awful. They said that after the 2nd transmission flush the car was only doing the popping occassionally and to bring it back in in a week or so and they will do another flush (free of charge). If it keeps on or gets worse then I will need a new transmission (because I might have driven too long with a bad transfer clutch). They said they would credit me the $1,500 I paid for the transfer clutch toward the new transmission ($2,200) so I would only have to pay $700. They really seemed to explain things better to me today. The technician also explained that even if you have all the same tires on your car you can destroy your transfer clutch if they are aired up differently (I had a slow leak in some of my tires over the years). When I drove it today it wasn't popping and drove smoothly. Anyway, maybe I still got taken to the cleaners but I feel better with the fact that if it turns out I do need an all new transmission they are going to give me a credit for the work I just had done. Thank you for everyones post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 $2100 !!!???!?! These kind of threads are painful to read! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 1. Good used 4EAT with warantee: $500 or less. 2. Independant Subaru mechanic to install it: $300 or less. 3. Ultimate Subaru Board to tell you this BEFORE you freak out and go to the dealer: Priceless GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 The dealer may not have overcharged as much as some people have thought. If I have read this correctly, the $2100 was for the tranny work AND 4 new tires. A friend of mine just spent close to $2K for a set of tires for her WRX, and these were good, but not high-end, tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladybaja Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 The break down was $550 for new tires and allignment/balancing, $1500 for transfer clutch and labor. Anyone have any recommendations inexpensive mechanics in the St. Louis, Missouri area who specialize in Subarus? I am going to need all new head gaskets and valve gaskets soon (dealer quoted me $1,800). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 The break down was $550 for new tires and allignment/balancing, $1500 for transfer clutch and labor. Anyone have any recommendations inexpensive mechanics in the St. Louis, Missouri area who specialize in Subarus? I am going to need all new head gaskets and valve gaskets soon (dealer quoted me $1,800). ask them to apply the above mentioned credit to you head gasket job. i hate to harp on this and i don't want to make you feel bad. but if you really needed the transfer clutch rebuild they would not be offing you a credit on a trans, IMHO. i think they rebuilt the clutch and it didn't fix it. and then they decided to change the fluid which has fixed it. if they had done the fluid first maybe you would not have needed the rebuild and could have saved $1000. any way i'm a cynic when it comes to dealers so i'll leave it alone now, but it doesn't hurt to ask for a credit at the dealer. the worst thay can do is say no. good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 You probaby don't need head gaskets and if you do you should find an experienced Subaru shop to do the work. The dealer is not usually the best option. Where are you locate? We can help you find someone.... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Where are you locate? We can help you find someone.... GD St. Louis, Missouri area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I am too far to know anyone in that area - but other's here will know! You might want to post a new thread asking for shop/mechanic reccomendations in the St. Louis area. Lots of people on this board and most of us know where to take these problems if we don't do the work ourselves or for the community. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faith Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Every auto soob (4eat) i have driven will make a slight rumbling noise when making tight slow maneuvers such as parking or u-turns. Based on my experience with many soobs, i deem this as normal since none of these cars were in a state of failure, and perform flawlessly otherwise. suppose you are speculating an issue out of something that you are not familiar with, but is otherwise normal, and therefore paying money for repairs that are not necessary by folks who are not familiar with this vehicle. if anything, new tires. i would not worry about the b=rumbling sound, unless you are getting wheel lockup, lurching, and crabbing. The little bit of rumbling you hear is the normal operation of the rear transfer clutches releasing bind on dry pavement, where the transfer would be locked in slippery situations. Your are right I own a 07 forester and that same rumbling sound I hear it everytime I make a u turn or tight left or right turn. Vehicle runs good, but I did have it diognose at the dealer code p0700 came up as tranfer clutch going bad and need to be replace at a cost of $800. At this point I got so use to that sound it does not matter to me vehicle runs as new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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