2stroketurbo Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxleone Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I'm skeptical, but will be interesting to see how it turns out. Keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datsunrides Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 2 stroke seizures are usually either by too tight a piston to cylinder clearance, or running lean, which is basically overheating. The most likely cause of the cylinder clearance is a piston expanding more than normal. Wiesco's had this issue years ago. I can't remember how many seisures I had on my old RD400 due to this. Couple extra thousandths on the hone did the trick. Made the motor a little noisy when dead cold, but no more seizures. I don't think the coating will help with the issue, but maybe it will. Those are more for lessening friction. Best bet may be a little more piston/cylinder clearance and possibly jet the carb up a notch to keep it cooler. Maybe run a little premix to help out? I am not a 360 guy, more just giving my 2c based on years of playing with street 2 stroke motorcycles. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Good common sense info , thanks Mark. I've been looking for an RD to play around with and might be taking one in really soon if I can leave enough space in storage. I've owned 2strokes before but never had any seizure issues. (Puch and Bridgestone) ...just thought of something .. the Puch was the "twingle" and B'stone had chrome bore cylinders so that's probably why they never seemed too tight. Edited January 9, 2011 by moosens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I can not find a link, can anyone find one? I need o see the MSDS and procedure before I comment. But I am already skeptical as the seizure of the piston skirts would damage the cylinder walls. This sounds like leaning out and this may be a teflon based coating. You heed to cinter teflon at 450-500 degrees f http://www.rjchase.com/fact_sheet_seventeen.pdf I used to do this all the time, and we used 500 degrees. However it was applied to carbon weve paper not to a metal that would be scuffed from seizure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stroketurbo Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 So far so good: 50 miles and no siezure yet MSDS sheet: http://www.kgcoatings.com/images/pdf/3000_Series_Data_Sheet.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 So far so good: 50 miles and no siezure yet MSDS sheet: http://www.kgcoatings.com/images/pdf/3000_Series_Data_Sheet.pdf Thats a technical Data sheet. An MSDS sheet will say at the top of it (by law) that it is an mds data sheet, include ingrediamts, combustion temps, exposure, volitiles etc. They are not the same and by law they have to supply it upon request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 http://www.ceram-kote.com/products/ceram_kote_thinner_1/pdfs/thin1msds.pdf Thats the thinner which is standard MEK http://www.ceram-kote.com/products/ceram_kote_54_aviation/pdfs/******-54_MSDS.pdf Let me read it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 This is ceramic dry film lubricant. We used to use it on the pistons of bomb racks. It's been around for many years. For piston seizing: Pistons, to eliminate friction and to provide better lubricity when used with oil. Gear Kote is a very good heat barrier when used on pistons and domes. This product will also shed carbon. A combination of coated pistons and piston walls will result in reduced damage from piston rock at bottom dead center. Race engines have shown piston life improvement of over three times normal.Ok I just checked my old notes, and god help me, it does what it says it does, though I am not sure of how long it lasts in a multi RPM engine, though in a 2 stroke it may not be that bad considering how a two stroke lubricates itself. . What it does is on the ocassion that the piston skirts lock up, it makes a ceramin surface so that the metals do not gaul the surface of each other and "seize" . Wused this on many parts that moved quickly. and as listed. However, I can not see using a oven to sinter (bake) this stuff on. Usually the tmeps required are over 500 degrees (always hotter then what it would see in real use. Considering ovens are not the most acurate things for this kind of thing (use a digital thermocouple to read it). Maybe a self cleaning oven will get hot enough. http://www.anodising.co.nz/KG-Performance-Coatings/ I do not see application directions so it may not be meant for the typical backyard mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stroketurbo Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Directions are on the TDS. I cooked the pistons @ 350 for an hour and half. Directions state 300 for an hour is good. Hotter and longer will marginally improve resistance and durability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Directions are on the TDS. I cooked the pistons @ 350 for an hour and half. Directions state 300 for an hour is good. Hotter and longer will marginally improve resistance and durability. How did you meaasure it and how did you clean it. We shot peened them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 In coatings or anything else, people think if a little is good, more is better. In coatings going to a higher temp or a longer scintering time can actually damage the coating. How did you determin the that parts reached thier required temps? I have worked with coatings many years, and they can be really finicky about temps and times. that is why these thigs are done in calibrated enviormentle ovens that keep a constant heat with zero temp swing. Before anyopne gets any crazy ideas, the coating will fail on any higher compression due to higher piston temps. Modern engines use vaporized oil to cool the pistons, so they get rather hot. Will be interesting to see how long this solves the problem for. I have a feeling it will not last as a real fix, but then again on a pleasure car it may not need to. On a dialy driver I would kepp the AAA card handy. "race engines have shown piston life imporved over two to three times normal". A race engine is torn down between races, so I can not reley comment on that as I do not have enough expierience in that area. I will keep an open mind. For anyone else, this is used in quite a few places. if the part has a gray sort of primer looking surface, that is from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stroketurbo Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 How did you meaasure it and how did you clean it. We shot peened them. I sandblasted, cleaned, and heated the pistons just like the directions say. Cooked them in my "Betty Crocker" toaster oven using my non-contact laser thermometer. Measured with digital calipers I'm happy as a clam. The engine has more power and idles higher. I have 10 more Subaru 360 engines to build. I just did a set of DKW 3=6 pistons. This stuff is awesome! I'm going to try 4 stroke pistons too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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