qwksilver Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 1997, Automatic Transmission, 2.5L, Legacy, Outback, Wagon starting about 9 months ago, the car had to be driven around in "1st" gear for about 15 min, enough for the motor to be warm for 5 min or so. Then it would perform more or less normal. More or less because uphill, in "climing gear", while on cruise control you could feel a slight slip. As of today it's a full slip, as in put car in gear and it doesn't go. stop car wait a while, car will do semi ok, limping it's way home, but had to stop car wait, turn on, go again some more. This information is true in all Shifted Positions. (pRnD321) help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Is the AT Oil Temp light flashing when you turn on the car? Have you tried to pull the TCU codes? Did you check the trans fluid color and level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksilver Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) not flashing, don't know how to pull tcu codes, the transmission fluid is nearly black, but at normal level Edited January 10, 2011 by qwksilver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 There is a current thread titled "auto trany help" on this forum right now. Read the problem, sounds similar to yours, read the responses. Suggestions may help fix your problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Black fluid is really, really bad. You should start looking around for another transmission. In the meantime you can try the following: drop the trans pan, drain as much fluid as you can (probably 4-5 quarts), clean off the magnet in the pan, replace the pan gasket and put the pan back on and add in fresh fluid. Maybe substitute 1qt of fluid for something like Trans-X or Lucas Tran Oil stop slip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Black fluid is really, really bad. You should start looking around for another transmission. In the meantime you can try the following: drop the trans pan, drain as much fluid as you can (probably 4-5 quarts), clean off the magnet in the pan, replace the pan gasket and put the pan back on and add in fresh fluid. Maybe substitute 1qt of fluid for something like Trans-X or Lucas Tran Oil stop slip. Disagree about dropping the trans pan. I did that only once to learn that was a mistake. I found very minimal metal particles on the magnet, and fine mesh screen was absolutely clean. So, dropping the pan accomplished absolutely nothing. Then the fun began. Cleaning off old gasket is really a nasty job, prolly best done with a dremmel tool. Then upon reassembly, it is really difficult to keep from having a pan leak, no matter how nicely you torque the bolts. Simply use the drain plug to drain old ATF, or pull a return line to pump the old ATF out. Just my 2 cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Guess we'll agree to disagree about dropping the pan, but we agree on draining as much fluid as possible. I've dropped many pans and never had a problem with getting the new gasket on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksilver Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 not sure if this matters at all, but, TZ102Z2CBA-DT is the series number of the Transmission i've gotten about 2 gallons out of the transmission so far, by both cracking the bolt underneath, and by "pumping" it out using the return line. the whole of it is black as pitch. i'm definately going to drop the pan, when i stop being lazy. as for gaskets and such, that's never been that big a deal on any other component. should i invest in a tube of black, blue, or w/e or just use the rubber one straight out the box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) not sure if this matters at all, but, TZ102Z2CBA-DT is the series number of the Transmission i've gotten about 2 gallons out of the transmission so far, by both cracking the bolt underneath, and by "pumping" it out using the return line. the whole of it is black as pitch. i'm definately going to drop the pan, when i stop being lazy. as for gaskets and such, that's never been that big a deal on any other component. should i invest in a tube of black, blue, or w/e or just use the rubber one straight out the box? 1. not that this is in question , but TZ102Z2CBA is a 96 outback auto trans with the 4.44 final drive ratio. TZ102Z2DBA is an outback auto trans 97-98 w/ a 4.44 final drive. 2. DO NOT, repeat DO NOT run the trans dry of fluid. it can severely damage it. even if you are not driving the car. 3. do what you want, but dropping the pan will gain you nothing, NOTHING, there are no serviceable parts in side the pan that will improve the way the car drives. if the trans had a specific issue, then maybe, you could address some internal part and help it. but, as a scheduled service event, DON'T DO IT. multiple drain and refills by the trans fluid pan drain plug, with driving around the block while manually shifting into each gear will accomplish the same thing and is less work. 4. if you do drop the pan , only to learn that you have wasted your time, be sure to use a good quality gasket maker when you re-install. Edited January 11, 2011 by johnceggleston 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 John, what about the magnet in the pan? It might be a good idea to take it out and clean it off. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 John, what about the magnet in the pan? It might be a good idea to take it out and clean it off. What do you think?you can do that during EVERY drain and re-fill. if you want you can do a drain and re-fill every time you change the oil for the next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksilver Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 @john. actually i was more concerned with the filter. is it not worth while to change the filter, the transmission had 249,739 miles at the last fill up, i have no clue what maintenance was on it before me. i bought it at 146,000ish. i haven't done anything with the transmission in my service time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 you can do that during EVERY drain and re-fill. if you want you can do a drain and re-fill every time you change the oil for the next year. Yeah but you need to drop the pan in order to clean the magnet. I'd say drop it this time to clean the magnet but not during future drains and refills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) oops Edited January 11, 2011 by johnceggleston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksilver Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 did you mean to repeat yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 did you mean to repeat yourself? I've seen that before. It's usually a technical glitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksilver Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 ok cool on the tech glitch. @john. this is a specific service, i'm doing this because i can't drive the car the way it is. It slips, it moves some, but each day it won't shift, till the tranmission (i think) is warmed up. now it won't hardly go at all. i got it moving and then it just slipps like crazy. park wait, go, park wait go. finally got home. so doing the fluid change is a bit of a hail mary anyway since i think the whole thing is done in anyway, so is it totally useless the filter, gasket kit. if so i will gladdly skip that step. is doing anything at all worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 @john. actually i was more concerned with the filter. is it not worth while to change the filter, the transmission had 249,739 miles at the last fill up, i have no clue what maintenance was on it before me. i bought it at 146,000ish. i haven't done anything with the transmission in my service time. the filter is a screen, not a filter in the true sense of the word. i don't know about other auto trans, they may have a filer and need to have a magnet cleaned. but subarus do not. there is no filter, just a fine screen. and if the metal is on the magnet then it is not circulating with the fluid. and apparently ALL auto trans have metal in the pan. it is one of the things the trans shop shows the owner to SELL them on a rebuild. do the drain a re-fill several times. if it does not help you can always open up then. usually id they start to slip they are dead. but some times a fluid change will help. and a fluid change is always the place to start. if it helps , great. but there is no great advantage to ''dropping the pan''. but suit your self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksilver Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 any advice on trying to locate a replacement (transmission) if i need one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 http://car-part.com/ I got my last transmission from a yard listed in the above site. I think it's the best source for used parts. I also have a 97 OBW AT so I know how you feel. My trans burned out at 230k miles. I probably could have opened it to fix it but I was still pretty new to cars then. I found a trans for $300 cause it had a minor cosmetic defect. It came with a parts (not labor) warranty and I installed it. Ended up having to repalce the Duty C Solenoid because that was bad, but now it works like a champ. However, I highly suggest you do 3 fluid drains and refills. It might just save you a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksilver Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 @bstone: why 3, shouldn't i see a performace change with just 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 The transmission holds about 10 qt of fluid. Draining it only gets about 4 quarts out because a lot of the fluid settles in the torque converter and other parts. I suggest you drain and fill it, drive it for a day, drain and fill it again and drive it and then drain and fill again. Three times will get out a majority of the bad fluid and probably save your transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksilver Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Update, I appear to be back to the original issue, perhaps with a different new issue i didn't realize I had. 1: Motor/AT Cold: 1st gear only doesn't shift until about 5 min after motor warm, I assume this is when the AT is up to running temp. 2: All the time(but sparatic): Motor acts like it wants to stall out, shifting to neutral or park causes it to idle normal. Shifting back to Drive or Reverse brings it down to 250ish RPM. Have to goose the gas to go. I've changed out most of the fluid, but I didn't crack the pan to change/check the filter/screen thing. The fluid is most definitely a lighter color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Check the fluid level and make sure you added enough. Sometimes more drains out than you put in, which will make for delayed and hard shifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksilver Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 fluid is just a touch under the center mark cold and the top mark hot. keep in mind i've had it doing this to me for about 9 months. thought it was just going bad, and would fail any day. but then it kept not failing, so why would a transmission not shift until warmed up? and what would make the car want to stall out in gear suddenly (torque converter? + bad fluid?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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