Head Gasket Bullet Dodged?

[Guest jclay]

Hi all,

 

I am looking for another Subie and found one in my price range...it's a 99 Outback with the 2.5 ltr engine.

 

I've spoken with the current owner who has been driving subes for a while and naturally asked him if the HG have been done, he says no, and that the car has had no trouble with them.

 

The car has 185,000 on the clock...at this mileage, is it possible that the HG bullet was dodged? It seems to be from what I've read here that if they were to fail, they would have by now? or is mileage not a factor?

 

All input would be greatly appreciatted!

 

Thanks!

 

Jared

[Fairtax4me]

He probably has one of "the lucky ones". There are a handful out there it seems (probably more than a handful, but we never hear about them because they don't have trouble) that go well past 200k miles with no head gasket problems.

You can expect to have head gasket issues on ANY engine after 200k, so failures of original gaskets at such high mileage really can't be attributed to the same cause as low mileage failures. It's almost considered just normal wear and tear at that point.

[GeneralDisorder]

Mileage is a factor - inspect the head gaskets. If they are 3-layer MLS then they are original. If they are 4-layer gaskets they have been replaced. If they are original IT WILL EVENTUALLY FAIL. It's a matter of time with these. The higher the mileage on them the more likely they will fail soon.

 

It's possible for them to make some decently high mileage without blowing - I just did a burned exhaust valve repair to a '97 OBW that had the original gaskets at 169k. Bought it from the orginal owners and got all the service reccords - had to remove the heads anyway because of the valve and the gaskets were definately factory. So it does happen, yes.

 

GD

[MilesFox]

My girl's old man picked up a 98 forester with 165,000 mi. No problem with the head gaskets, and they are original. There is a maintenance history showing WP and TB had already been done, and routine coolant maintenance. No bubbles in the radiator!

 

I suppose i should tell him to use a can of block condtioner, considering he just changed the coolant after a radiator leak. He is aware that this engine is susceptible to HG problems

[idosubaru]

or is mileage not a factor?

mileage means little.

 

they don't all fail and age/mileage has been rather meaningless. an engine with a propensity to fail at 30,000 miles is surely not any better designed to last 100k after the 185k this one already has on it.

 

it's not a deal breaker for sure, still a good car and motor, just one small added risk. a small risk that I wouldn't assume "goes away" with age or mileage.

 

mathematically speaking i would suggest it works like this - a certain percentage of 185,000 mile original gasket EJ25's will loose headgaskets at some point....and that percentage will be higher than all other newer subaru motors falling in the same category. small percentage though, so small risk.

 

i have no idea how many blown EJ25's i've bought (Davebugs is another good source with lots of experience) and I see them for sale on a weekly basis. I've seen 190k, 200k, 250k, 220k fairly regularly, i usually pass on them because lower mileage sells better, higher margins. but, my experience tells me i see a lot more EJ25's at those mileages than any other subaru motor

 

*** it's easy to prove to, you can ignore my experience and come to your own conclusions. autotrader, ebay, craigslists, local papers, all have this stuff and Ej25's are a weekly occurence (at least in subaru rich areas). i've yet to see any others subaru motors for sale with blown headgaskets where i look except for really old ones like 80's and early 90's - most assuredly poor maintenance related (radiator, hoses, turbo, etc).

 

i just found one locally in about 1.5 minutes that's for sale - blown headgaskets at 183,000 miles.....you can repeat this sort of thing nearly every week for EJ25's....so i would not assume 185k means anything...either that it's "fine"...nor either that it's a deal breaker.

Edited January 13, 2011 by grossgary

[johnceggleston]

there always seem to be some ej25s 96 - 99 with HGs going bad. at least as long as i've been here. some went a 60k and some are now going with 180k - 220k miles.

 

my fear is that they all will go bad sooner or later. but until you drive one to the bitter end without replacing them how can you tell. and is 250k the end? or 300k? how about 450k?

 

if they are original, the chances are they will fail, in my opinion, but i don't really know. if they have been replaced there is a better chance they will not fail again.

 

just my opinion.

[Ionlyhave3suubs]

It is possible for the headgaskets to last over 200k. My 97 outback's originals lasted for just under 230k miles. I understand this is not common for most 2.5d engines though. My other car with the 2.5d HGs failed at about 155k. It is unknown if those gaskets were originals, I didn't know that much about the differences between them. I bought the car with the bad gaskets and I have no maintainence records for it.

 

When I did the gaskets, I went with the fel-pro gaskets. SO far they are lasting, but from what I understand from other members, the subaru gaskets are much better due to their research and development to correct the original design flaw.

 

On my 97 Outback, I botched the job and now I have an external coolant leak instead of an internal leak (used fel-pro again and made the mistake of adding gasket sealant which was not needed, most likely caused the leak).

 

Moral of the story

1) When (not if) you do the headgaskets on your 2.5d, only use Subaru brand

2) Don't take the auto parts store counter guy's word for it if he tells you you need to use headgasket sealant. His job is to sell you stuff, like headgasket sealant.

3) The headgasket job is expensive if you pay someone else to do it.

4) It is not an easy job to do, but it is easy to mess it up.

5) Getting the timing belt back on right is also difficult. If it is even one tooth off, the car will either not run or run very rough.

 

Good luck finding the right one for you.

If you buy one that has not had the gaskets done yet (documented with Subaru brand gaskets) plan ahead and set money aside to do them.

[mikec03]

I agree with whats been posted. But I think that it's a matter of price too.

The gold standard for a used car, to me, is a total cost of $.10/mi for depreciation and major maintenance. If one is willing to assume higher auto costs then $.10/mi, then they should buy new. So if the price of the '99 subaru is $2000, then there is a good chance that you will get 20,000 mi [$.10/mi] without the head gaskets failing. However, if the price is $4,000, then it's probably less then 50% chance that you will get 40,000 mi. before failure. Unfortunately, it's also beginning to look like that sort of calculation is appropriate for the SOHC 2.5 engines 00-09 with over 100K mi.

 

So think about it. And the HG problem is definitely not "dodged."

[bheinen74]

always take an ej25 for test drive of 10-15 minutes, and pop the hood while engine is running -warm, and check into the overflow for ANY bubbles.

 

If you see any bubbles, then the headgasket has failed.