Redhat Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Hi everyone. This is a 96 Legacy with the 2.2 EJ22 motor. Last April I changed the timing belt but didn't think to change the seals.. and now I think they're leaking. Is there any tricks to getting the cam sprockets off..? Should I try to find a seal puller for the seals.. or just carefully use a thin screwdriver to get the seals out? Next is, when I'm putting the new seals in, do I put them in dry or use grease, gasket sealer.. etc... what do I use? Lastly, I've been told that the oil pump has a backing plate where the screws can get loose. If I pull the oil pump and locktite these 5 screws, is it just a matter of a new gasket and some gasket sealer to reinstall..? What kind of gasket sealer do I use? What's the torque on the bolts? Any help would be much appreciated. I hope to get after it this weekend. PS. OEM seals vs CarQuest parts..? Any thing else I'm forgetting..? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhat Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 In further reading, I understand the new crank and cam seals go in with just a little bearing grease. Also I guess there's an 'O' ring on the back of the oil pump that can be replaced. Thanks for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I use assembly lube instead of grease - but grease should be fine. As for pulling you can be very careful and use a pick, screwdriver, or try the putting in some screws method. After doing the pick/screwdriver many, many times I bought a Liste puller. Looks kinda like a screwdriver with a few gizmo's on the end. Search around here - I know I've seen a part# and pic. Under 20 bucks. You can get by without it. But if you scratch especially the crank 20 bucks will seem wise. Get that oil pump Oring at the dealer. Use ultra grey to seal the oil pump. I use a PVC coupling as a driver. The same PVC piece will do both seals. Just put the seals in your pocket and go to a hardware store/lumber yard. Real seating tool is good, socket will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhat Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 Hi Dave, thanks for your reply. Yes, I saw the Liste puller. If I can find it locally, I'll get it. When re-installing the oil pump, am I smearing the super gray on the gasket surfaces so I sandwich the gasket between super gray? I've never had the oil pump off so I don't know what I'm looking at yet. Is there just the 'O' ring and I smear the super gray on the 'O' ring and shaft? Also, should I change the screen in the oil pump or at least clean it..? Is it easy to get to? Thanks again for any help. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 NO GASKET for the oil pump. The Ultra Grey makes the seal. Be gentle with the ultra gray. Don't want it oozing anywhere and especially into an oil pump. As far as the screen - I don't recall. I don't think there is one - just on the pickup tube. Check the screws on the back. Loctite if you wish. OEM Oring. Some ultra grey to seal it against the case. You can look here for opionions on when to install the crank seal (that's really on the oil pump). Some install it on the pump face then slide it over the crank. I'm always afraid of knocking it loose/messing it up. Personally I install the oil pump cover then drive in the crank seal. But whatever you want to do. FYI a lot of auto parts have that Lisle tool. I've also seen it at several Sears with decent tool departments (tend to be older Sears). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhat Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 Very good. I'll let you know how it turns out. As I understand it, the crank seal mounts into the front of the oil pump so after I get the pump on, I tap the seal into place. Is that right? Also, If I replace the water pump, should I use super gray on the gasket surface? Thanks again for your time and help. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Get an OEM WP gasket. It's rubber coated metal. INSTALL DRY. I buy the WP local (make sure it has a metal impeller). Throw out the cardboard gasket in the box and use OEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ionlyhave3suubs Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 When installing the oil pump seal I prefer to drive it in after the oil pump has been installed to the engine. If you put the seal in first then try to put the oil pump on, it is real easy to booger up the seal (ask me how I know). You can also see what you are doing better when when lining up the oil pump to the crank with the seal off. Before removing any of the cam or crank seals, take not of how deep the seals are driven in. You will need to duplicate that depth the best you can. Take digital pics if you need to. The subaru brand seals are worth the money, if you can convince the dealer to sell to you at their jobber price (price they sell wholesale to auto shops) there is not that much price difference from other aftermarket retailers. My $.02 worth added to the above replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhat Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Thanks Dave, I think I've got it figured out. I also like taking note of how deep the seals are pressed in so I can repeat. Thanks 3Suubs. Just to review - A little grease on the seals and tap'em in with socket. Oil pump (OEM) 'o' ring gets a little super gray, use OEM gasket for wp and install dry. What about torque on the bolts.. do I need locktite anywhere? And lastly, if I'm doing valve cover gaskets, do I use some super gray.. how much torque on these bolts? Have a good evening and thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 O ring naked. Ultra grey on the mating surface instead of a gasket. Some folks locktite the oil pump screws. Other than that I believe you've got it. If the engine is in the car remove rad fan assy (or entire rad assy). If you don't pull the actual rad I ALWAYS protect it with cardboard of an old piece of paneling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ionlyhave3suubs Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Take a look at pages 4 and 5 of this thread, even though the thread is about something else, the info is relevant on pages 4&5 to what you are doing. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=118791&highlight=bucking&page=5 When doing work that requires timing belt removal, I always remove the radiator, makes it easier to get to everything and you can see what you are doing better. Your valvecover gaskets go on dry. I'd remove, locktite, and re-install the screws in the back of the oil pump while it is off. I found 3 loose ones on my "02 outback when I had it off. Sometimes these screws back out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhat Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 10-4 on the o ring. I'll install it dry and use ultra gray on mating surfaces. I'll be pulling the fan and probably the radiator. Do I install the valve cover gaskets dry..? and is there an issue with over tightening bolts on any of the things I'm doing? Have a good evening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 If you don't pull the actual rad I ALWAYS protect it with cardboard of an old piece of paneling. Need an "Advice of the week" heading or something on the main page. I'll nominate this one for the first week. :-p With spelling/grammar corrections of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhat Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hi 3suubs... that link didn't go through. What's the title on the tread, I'll try and find it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ionlyhave3suubs Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=118791&highlight=bucking&page=5 the thread is called 02 outback bucking on acceleration. Try a search for "bucking" should make it easy to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Here's a thread that might help you with the oil pump (search is your friend.) http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=112590&highlight=pump+seal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 10-4 on the o ring. I'll install it dry and use ultra gray on mating surfaces. I'll be pulling the fan and probably the radiator. Do I install the valve cover gaskets dry..? and is there an issue with over tightening bolts on any of the things I'm doing? Have a good evening Either pull the whole assy or just the fans/plastic. Removing fans then the rad is double work. If it's an auto the lower tranny hose can be a PITA. An excellent use for hose clamp pliers but still can be difficult. If you remove the rad search for "burping procedures" here for a 2.5. Sorry about typo's. Doing 2 things at one time (I HATE taxes, and the prep). My mind runs faster than my fingers. When I have time I actually do preread and check, and often go back and correct. On the cardboard or old paneling. It will set in the rad support - and keep falling towards the engine. A bungy can help hold it upright - just make a complete loop with bungies down the front, under the rad support, out the top. This has worked better for me that trying to anchor it at the hood latch or other choices. VC bolts will kinda bottom out all of a sudden. I haven't needed a procedure since Endwrench has been down - man I'll miss it. Folks were trying to save what articles they had. Worth a look. Most/all or what you're doing should be covered in the head gasket procedure. When are you doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhat Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Looks like I'll be hauling wood for the stove most of the weekend so the motors gonna wait till tuesday. Yeah, I've been through the 'burping procedure' when I did the timing belt but I'll search and see if I learn something more. I remember jacking the front of the car up a bit, keeping the rad cap on, unscrewing the left side top rad plug and running a tightly fitting piece of hose out of it into a container. Just when you think you've got all the air out... boom, there goes more. So I ran the motor for at least ten minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhat Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Here's an update for those who helped me get started. Sure enough, the backing plate screws on the oil pump were loose and the crank shaft seal was bad. That was all relatively easy to get back together but I'm having trouble getting the cam sprocket bolts off. I've tried a homemade spanner wrench but the pressure was just bending it up. I've read that maybe a ratchet strap might be useful. Does anyone have any suggestions? It's the EJ22 motor. Thanks for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Here's an update for those who helped me get started. Sure enough, the backing plate screws on the oil pump were loose and the crank shaft seal was bad. That was all relatively easy to get back together but I'm having trouble getting the cam sprocket bolts off. I've tried a homemade spanner wrench but the pressure was just bending it up. I've read that maybe a ratchet strap might be useful. Does anyone have any suggestions? It's the EJ22 motor. Thanks for any help. Shoot - too bad you didn't see this on any procedures. Too late now but break them with an impact while timing belt is still on. Still a GOOD impact can often do this. Depends how up for danger you are. I have held them by hand with a serious IR 2131(?) impact. Some have tried sticking a screwdriver through the spokes (I believe that engine has the aluminum pulleys), some take an old timing belt and wrap it around and figure a way to hold it still - then hit it with an impact. Point is that now (no timing belt) I believe an impact is gonna be required. Because it is "quick" compared to a breakert bar, etc. Lisle does make a "universal cam sprocket" tool. I think mine was bad outta the package - hard to adjust and lock (when 2 screws are tightened). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Dave is this the puller you use? its a 58430. I was thinking I would order one. Just not sure how effective it is. Seems like it would sip off the seal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhat Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Man, I'm a idiot not to think of impacting them with T belt resistance. I have a good impact gun too. I didn't want to damage the sprockets by putting screwdrivers or the like through them. Maybe I'll do a piece of wood with the impact. I don't have an old timing belt any more, so that's out. I'll give it a shot tomorrow and let you know. Thanks for the heads up. BTW, I have a tube of black gasket sealer. It says 'non hardening'. Do you think I might be able to use a little for the oil pump contact surface? The red stuff is $20 a tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 For the oil pump I would stick with what's recommended--Permatex Ultra Grey or an anaerobic sealant (is that the $20 red stuff?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhat Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Yes, the Permatex anaerobic sealant is the red stuff. Is the ultra gray any cheaper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Yes it is--5 or 6 bucks a tube as I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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