blitz Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 I hear a lot of people raving about the fuel mileage and off-the-line torque of the TDI Golf, so I visited the VW site the other day, and frankly I wasn't getting exited about being seen driving a new Volkswagen or giving up AWD. Naturally, the thought of a Sube boxer entered my mind... 2.2l, 190 Ft./Lbs. practically off-idle... 40 mpg... the perfect snow-tractor and foul-weather stoplight jumper. If Subaru made an AWD TDI boxer, would you buy one? I'm sorta thinkin' that it would be pretty bitchin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99obw Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 I can't say I would definately buy one. I am very interested in a diesel subaru, but I am also very dissapointed in SOA and Subaru for the perpetual 2.5l head gasket circus. I think the newer subarus are lacking something that attracts me the the older ones that is hard to define. Oh yes, I know, RELIABILITY. I would stand back and observe the reliability, economy, ease of repair, etc. of the new subaru engine for a few years. Then I might pick one up used to see for myself. Diesels have very high compression ratios, I think Subaru would have a hard time designing an adequate cylinder head sealing mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrxsubaru Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I thought Subaru was already designing a disel 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benebob Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Diesel is too dirty and in reality you are in fact creating more of a gas issue and enviromental issues with one than with a gas engine. It takes 4 barrels of oil to make 4 barrels of gas while it takes 4 barrels of oil to make 3 barrels of diesel. The diesel would need to be 25% more eff. than a gas engine to actually save oil dependency. Yes a current diesel is about 25% more efficient in that regard, however, it emits far to much in the way of pollutants. Unless a new system is developed (which is doubtful since diesel cars make up about .5% of car sales in the US) there will not be a single diesel here in 2006 I think when the more stringent emissions regs go into effect for diesel engines. Subaru would waste far too much money for an increase in maybe 2000 cars a year if they offered a diesel. Besides, that money would be better spent coming up with a new head gasket for when our legacy needs it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theotherskip Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 lots of myths about current diesels. they are cleaner than ever, and doing much better with the new low sulfur fuels. but i don't think i would touch a subaru one with a 10 foot pole - at least until they get about 10 years for learning under their belt. i also don't think a diesel boxer would be the best idea. most automotive and truck diesels (with the exception of the v-8's) are inline engines. setting up a boxer configuration would be a waste and probably add a lot more weight to an already heavy engine. i would be more interested if they were to install a diesel motor made by a company with a history of diesels like cummins, isuzu, mb, etc, but i don't think that is too likely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subeman90 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I will buy a Diesel someday....hopefully subaru will make it but to be honest with you I saw a TD PT cruiser in Car and Driver that really tripped my trigger....not to mention There are rumors that a TD Jeep liberty is in the works. I also saw a Jeep GC with a diesel in it (already available in europe). I hate to say this but if fuel keeps going up and Subaru's reliability keeps going down (clutches, headgaskets, binding AWD, etc) I'll be gone like the wind.....and just keep an oldie but goodie around for the snow days. These things are too darn expensive to have crap like this going at such an early age.... Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweden Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I'd buy one in a minute! Gasoline is about $4.50 gal. here in Sweden and I can't afford to drive my '96 Legacy Outback (I bought a Ford Fiesta as an alternative...). Yes, there are issues with certain pollutants with the diesel. My choice would be to go with bio-diesel made from rape oil, which is gaining some popularity here in Europe. How about a biogas/natural gas driven engine for Subaru? They are also becomeing increasingly popular here. Sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL1 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 ...since diesel cars make up about .5% of car sales in the US) there will not be a single diesel here in 2006 I think when the more stringent emissions regs go into effect for diesel engines. Subaru would waste far too much money for an increase in maybe 2000 cars a year if they offered a diesel. thinking of world wide market, at least 60% of the cars sold in europe run on diesel with vert strict emission regulations since 2000 Besides, that money would be better spent coming up with a new head gasket for when our legacy needs it done. [/b] good point, and one should consider the experience of the two major euro diesel manufacturer: VW/audi and Peugeot. It could take a while before Sub catch up with tem... but one thing they'll never get is the boxer's sound ! (diesels sound like ****) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applegump Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I doubt I would by a diesel from Subaru, or anyone else for that matter. If they do offer a diesel it better have a particulate filter. I would prefer Subaru to be working on a hybrid vehicle (gasoline electric) or at the very least offer LPG or CNG from the factory as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitz Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 Originally posted by theotherskip SNIP i also don't think a diesel boxer would be the best idea. most automotive and truck diesels (with the exception of the v-8's) are inline engines. setting up a boxer configuration would be a waste and probably add a lot more weight to an already heavy engine. SNIP I kinda wondered about this. I'd figure that an UNDERsquare design would be better adapted to a diesel, whereas the boxer layout is typically an oversquare design because packaging limitations (overall width). That appears to be a conflict. Also a big bore is contrary to good efficiency because of greater thermal loss to the oil and cooling system (piston crown & combustion chamber respectively). Oh well, it was a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Last I heard, Subaru is co-developing a boxer diesel engine with Isuzu, its next-door neighbor in the SIA plant in Indiana... 99obw has addressed the only concern, they would have to make a halfway-decent headgasket that can hold some 18:1 CR, they can't even make one to hold 9.5:1 CR :brolleye: Other than that, I would LOVE to have one. Think about it, guys. Subaru already having a rock-hard reputation for tough bottom-ends making something with an even-beefier bottom end, then you have the already torque-happy boxer design, then multiplied 3 times over. If they take to it with the same vigor that they did the EJ22T or the EJ257 in the STi/Forester-T/Baja-T, then it would be a fantastic enterprise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddleboy Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Fuel mileage is the one big disadvantage of the subarus in my opinion. I work in the diesel engine industry (for over-the-road trucks) and I disagree with the statements that diesels are far more polluting than gas. It is true that the diesel is made from a different component of the oil than gasoline which is exactly why we need a certain number of diesels - it allows us to use ALL the oil (although these days they can do amazing things in refining). While the NOx and HCs from diesels are the main issue, I seem to remember that they have very low CO and CO2 emissions compared with gasoline engines. Again, it is not an issue of one being better - they have different polluting agents. Both the NOx and HCs have been radically reduced and are going to be very minimal come 2007 regulations. Smoking, lung-choking diesels are a thing of the past and the low end torque and low fuel consumption is amazing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger83 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I think it is far more likely that we will see a direct injection gas engine from Subaru than a diesel. Hybrids are probably a given. Most diesels today are "shared" across many product lines and this would be difficult to do with most Subarus designed for boxer motors and most other cars designed for inlines. Subarus are at the smaller/lighter end of the sprctrum of vehicles and diesels deliver their largest benefits at the bigger/heavier end of the spectrum. I work with a fellow who owns a Jetta TDI. Good motor, but he has had typical VW problems (mostly electrical) with it. It did start in the cold weather this winter (-10) once he got a new battery, which cost him over $100. It has quite acceptable performance. Diesels may become more popular in the U.S. once we get lower sulfur fuels. But with our relatively low fuel prices they're hard to justify unless you tow. I looked at a diesel for our company Ford cargo van a few years back. It was about $4,200 more to purchase but had roughly $2,500 higher resale value at the likely trade-in mileage/time. Fuel economy was substantially better (like 19-20 versus 14 on the highway). But diesel fuel costs more than gas around here, and the maintenance was higher. The break-even mileage was higher than we expected to keep the truck for. But if you're regularly towing heavy trailers, they can't be beat. Guess I'll have to wait for the head gaskets to jump out of my '97 OBW (129,000 miles), then decide.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I see no reason why a diesel-electric hybrid couldn't figure into Subarus plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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