Is there something wrong with my carb, or me?

[subaruru]

I have a 1986 GL Loyale, 1.8L, 4Dr, FWD, silver hubcaps OOPS! It also has manual transmission! I have had a lot of trouble getting this car to idle properly and in fact, several mechanics whom I have hired to help me out seem to be about as clueless regarding where to adjust the warmed up idle (aka low idle) as I, even though they haven't been too embarrassed about receiving payment!

 

Anyway, we are where we are, as they say, so I need to move forward with this project, so I turn to good ol ultimatesubaru...

 

To approach this topic in small steps, rather than do a complete Freudian psychoanalysis of my old Soobie, let me begin by asking two related questions regarding IDLE ADJUSTMENT:

 

1) Should the sleeve that rings the warmed-up idle adjustment screw be rigidly fixed to the carb, or is it okay of it is "loose" (flexible, or in any case not rigid)? I ask because the other day, it seemed to me that the sleeve in question was rigid, and that the screw could only make a half-turn (now it makes about 20 turns!), but now the sleeve is as loose as a goose... however, I was using a fatter screwdriver than was probably too wide, and since it was a bit short, it was hard to get it completely down into the screw. I fear that I may have damaged the sleeve by using a screwdriver that was too wide at the tip (not really the tip because it is sort of carrot shaped even if flat at the tip).

 

2) Does it sound reasonable that the idle adjustment screw in question should be able to make 20 or so turns? I ask because initially, it seems to me that it could only make a half-turn.

 

Please allow me to end on a statement rather than a question...

 

This car seems to lack power, especially over the mid-range, that is, it accelerates sluggishly until the car warms up, then it is more or less a normal car. Yet, when I hit the gas for serious, it races off like mad. Does this carb need an adjustment, or should it be replaced?

 

Thanks,

subaruru

(I was groggy-sleepy when I posted this initially... the landlord keeps roosters... sorry about that!)

Edited February 24, 2011 by subaruru
I was groggy-sleepy when I posted this initially.

[GeneralDisorder]

Well - that engine has 84 HP so it's not going to be fast.

 

Yank that carb off and put on a Weber. The Hitachi's are best left to people that KNOW carbs. If it's screwed up and you don't understand them - it's quite likely a lost cause because you and none of your mechanics really understand it.

 

GD

Edited February 24, 2011 by GeneralDisorder

[subaruru]

Thanks, GD,

 

How do I determine which kind of Weber carb I need? According to Autozone, all 1.8L engines for my year and model use a DCZ-328 if we are speaking of a replacement carb from National Carburetors, if that is any clue.

[subaruru]

I have read/ seen online that there is such an animal as a Weber conversion kit for these original Hitachi carburetors. Has anyone had any experience with these? I have seen them on eBay, which I tend not to trust a lot, but have also seen them on the website of a Weber distributor in the UK called Webcon, which I tend to trust more. What say, anyone tried this route to a cheaper (I guess, but at $319 for the conversion kit at eBay, I'm not sure it's so cheap!) Weber carburetor?

 

Thanks!

[nickolai]

I just bought one of those $319 kits from "theimportexperts" on ebay. You might find my current thread interesting.

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=120431

[92_rugby_subie]

In my experience, the most common weber put on a EA subaru is a Weber 32/36 DGEV. Its an electric choke so no manual cable adjustment.

 

They are around 300 new or Craigslist them for 50-200

 

Youll need the adapter plate and such but Ive owned 3 Subarus with a Weber, and they are amazing!

[subaruru]

Thanks to Nickolai and to 92_Rugby_Subie! It sounds pretty encouraging! I have earlier seen my car listed as a 2bbl (2 barrel carb), but when I see images of this critter, it has two barrels, or compartments, I guess you would say, whereas mine has a single compartment with a single choke. Since it doesn't have a manual choke, it must be an electric one. I have seen so much negative stuff written about fake Weber carbs (Made in China) that I am a bit skeptical, though I haven't seen any references to fake conversion kits. I'll have to try and find it on Craigslist, but again, there is always the risk of receiving Made in China crap unless you can pick it up locally, meaning that it is almost better to trust a regular business like the route that Nickolai went. I'll have to check it out. In the meantime, if anyone knows anything about the difference between a 1 bbl and a 2 bbl carb (how they look), please tell me if mine is a single or twin barrel carb.

 

Thanks again!

[GeneralDisorder]

Your Hitachi is a two-barrel - they just share a round air-horn like many carbs. And yes - it's a DCZ-328.

 

You want a Weber 32/36 DGV - manual choke would be better for an EA82 as there is no mods required to the power steering reservoir to fit the electric choke. But either can be used.

 

Don't buy the "kit" - it comes with the carb/adaptor and an air filter than you can't use because it's too tall. That's it. You don't want the air filter and you DO want some other stuff...... Call up www.carbsunlimited.com and tell them you want a Weber 32/36 DGV (manual/electric - your preference) with default 4 cylinder jetting (140/140 mains, 170/160 AC's, and 50/50 idle jets), a "short" air filter, EA82 Adaptor plate, additional primary idle jets in 60 and 65, and a choke cable if applicable. They will hook you up with the right stuff. The additional idle jets are for tuning the idle on the EA82's - they often require a larger jet than the stock 50.

 

GD

[Ricearu]

your hitachi is a two-barrel - they just share a round air-horn like many carbs. And yes - it's a dcz-328.

 

You want a weber 32/36 dgv - manual choke would be better for an ea82 as there is no mods required to the power steering reservoir to fit the electric choke. But either can be used.

 

Don't buy the "kit" - it comes with the carb/adaptor and an air filter than you can't use because it's too tall. That's it. You don't want the air filter and you do want some other stuff...... Call up www.carbsunlimited.com and tell them you want a weber 32/36 dgv (manual/electric - your preference) with default 4 cylinder jetting (140/140 mains, 170/160 ac's, and 50/50 idle jets), a "short" air filter, ea82 adaptor plate, additional primary idle jets in 60 and 65, and a choke cable if applicable. They will hook you up with the right stuff. The additional idle jets are for tuning the idle on the ea82's - they often require a larger jet than the stock 50.

 

Gd

 

+1000

[subaruru]

Thanks, GD,

 

I'll give them a call after I get myself installed in Denver - I am on the way there in about 2 weeks, if all goes well, from sunny SF East Bay. I'll "report back" when I make the move. Thanks again to everyone for good input.

 

 

Subaruru

[subaruru]

Thanks everybody, I am now installed in Denver. I have an urgent appeal regarding the adjustment of my car's Hitachi carburetor, because the trip to Denver devastated my economy, meaning that the purchase of the Weber carb will have to be postponed (gas prices were out of this world – and still climbing! – and I was towing the car on a dolly behind a Uhaul truck, their smallest, but still pretty gas-hungry compared to my old Subaru). Unfortunately for me, my CA registration runs out soon, meaning that I have to have the car smogged in Denver, where they have very strict emissions standards.

 

In fact, I have had it inspected twice now (they give you unlimited retries within a 10-day window of opportunity), where the first time it failed miserably, probably because in trying to adjust the slow idle (SI), I monkeyed with the air-fuel mixture (AFM) instead. The second test, after I had a Craigslist mechanic reset the AFM, eliminated the HC ("hydrocarbons", or a measure of unburned fuel) problem completely (from 6.11 down to 0.82, where the acceptable threshold is 2.50), and reduced the CO2 problem from a whopping 75.38 down to a mere 21.10, where the threshold is 20.00).

 

However, I fear that the gains will not last and are at least partly due to the chemicals that the "mechanic" used: a gas tank additive (TA, or Fuel Injector Plus Intake Valve Cleaner, by Valvoline) and the carb-cleaner spray that he used generously (I had earlier given the carb a good spraying with AutoZone's spray when I replaced the spark plugs and mistakenly adjusted the AFM instead of the SI). I didn't have more than 5 bucks worth of gas in the tank so I didn't dare use the entire bottle of TA, using instead about half – maybe I should have used all of it (I still have about 6-7 oz of the 12 oz bottle left, should I use it now???). Moreover, to thin out the TA, I drove around until the tank was near-empty, then put about $7 of gas into it and drove back to the smog station (SS).

 

Tomorrow is my last shot, so I want to see if there is anything in this world that I can do to pass that damn test short of installing a Weber carb, for the alternatives are not part of a very happy ending, at least not for the short run, and I really like this little car (a garage mechanic advised me to sell outside of the Denver area where there is no, or only mild, smog testing).

 

I have noticed that my linkage seems to stick when I floor the accelerator (ACC). Initially, this was only at the carb end, but one day it also happened at the ACC end, so I attached a save-my-friggin-life cord to it that I cleverly attached to the dash using a strong spring. After some time, the cord was no longer necessary. Just before I left CA, the car suddenly, while I was driving, revved up to over 2500 RPM (!), worrying the dickens (choose your favorite 4-letter word!) out of me. It was in response to this that I seriously screwed up the AFM. The next day, or soon after, the engine suddenly dropped down to a quiet if slightly uneven purr, like it used to run.

 

Immediately after (and probably during!) the first smog test here in Denver, the car was again running at 2500 RPM, and there was nothing I could do to fix the problem (I believe I may still have been mistaking the AFM for the SI). When Dr Spray (the "mechanic") left with his cash in his pocket, the car was running seemingly perfectly, but I must say that it dropped down to this purring level all of its own, after Dr Spray had sprayed the carb generously, also the linkage (also with some WD-40), and after I had added the TA, exactly as it had done there in CA when it suddenly, for no immediately identifiable reason, went from a heart-throbbing 2500 RPM down to a normal of about 1000 RPM. (I mention all of this in order to provide some clues.)

 

I had earlier told Dr Spray about what I felt was a linkage problem (the cord was still attached to the ACC, though not to the dash). He said that the culprit was a skinny, "piggybacked" cable (a left-over manual choke cable?) that was jerry-rigged alongside the ACC cable and attached with the help of a locking plastic strip (LPS). Dr Spray said that the function of this cable was to help retract the choke, I believe, but that it wasn't necessary, and moreover that the LPS was sliding into the ACC cable groove on the half-wheel gizmo on the carb and getting stuck there, so he cut the LPS and laid the "piggyback" aside, where it would do no harm (I have no idea if this was the real problem or was simply part of Dr Spray's bogus analysis/ gimmicky corrections). Btw, Dr Spray said that the proper AFM adjustment is 1 ¼ turn backed off from dead bottom. Does that sound about right? Is this a hard-and-fast rule, or is it an adjustable parameter, given my circumstances?

 

Unfortunately, by the time I went to the SS (remember, I had to burn off some of that TA), the car was running at 1500 RPM. Just outside the SS, I managed to get it down to 1250 RPM adjusting the SI alone (I didn't dare monkey with the AFM again), but after the test, it was at about 1600 RPM, and there was nothing that yours truly could to with the SI to make it go back down. When I have started it and warmed it up since, it runs normally at first, but after some driving, it unfailingly creeps back up toward the 1250 mark, or higher. This pattern is symptomatic, it begins in a normal-like state, then creeps up to an excessively high RPM, usually somewhere in the range 1250-1500 RPM. Btw, Dr Spray said that the carb was not tightened properly and therefore was sucking in false air. He could only reach 3 of the 4 screws, none with a torque wrench (I may own more tools than that guy has!)

 

I hope that this novella offers some clues, and I am hoping that GD, who has advised me to stay away from adjusting a Hitachi carb, nonetheless offers some advice, for my back is sort of against the wall right now, where ideal solutions belong to the long, not the short, run! If anyone needs additional info, shoot; I'll check in regularly. Dr Spray – perhaps not surprisingly – did not respond to my email appeal for additional advice (he has since advertised himself on Craigslist as a carb specialist, figuring, perhaps, that there is easy money in suckering people like me... he's probably right... while we were on the way to the Chase ATM to pick up his cash a call came in for work on a timing problem, but Dr Spray declined, saying excitedly to me afterwards that he had to avoid getting into jobs that were more trouble than they were worth).

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[Subarule]

 

I have read/ seen online that there is such an animal as a Weber conversion kit for these original Hitachi carburetors. Has anyone had any experience with these? I have seen them on eBay, which I tend not to trust a lot, but have also seen them on the website of a Weber distributor in the UK called Webcon, which I tend to trust more. What say, anyone tried this route to a cheaper (I guess, but at $319 for the conversion kit at eBay, I'm not sure it's so cheap!) Weber carburetor?

 

Thanks!

 

 

I got mine at http://www.redlineweber.com/carb-kits/

 

I bought mine a few years ago and the kits are not available there anymore but this will show which one you need and what the kit # is (universal) so you can look for them elsewhere.

 

Just had it installed recently and it is fabulous. Everything necessary was in the kit.

 

They are not cheap!

 

In the meantime, sounds like you're dealing with a vacuum leak or leaks.

[Subarule]

 

In my experience, the most common weber put on a EA subaru is a Weber 32/36 DGEV. Its an electric choke so no manual cable adjustment.

 

They are around 300 new or Craigslist them for 50-200

 

Youll need the adapter plate and such but Ive owned 3 Subarus with a Weber, and they are amazing!

 

 

There is a kit for manual choke as well as en electric choke. K731M and K731, respectively.

 

Those kits supply the adpaptor plate.

[Subarule]

Maybe your throttle linkage is still binding up. A quick and easy thing to check out. Does it have return spring?

 

If Colorado has strict emissions controls then you won't get away with having a Weber carb on the car during a check. Installing a Weber means getting rid of many of the emissions system's parts and your car would be deemed "illegal" during a check.

[subaruru]

Thanks, Subarule. The smog check lasts for 2 years, so if the car runs better on a Weber carb and if the switch back and forth isn't too daunting, then it might be worth the trouble.

 

I think maybe, given what you have suggested and given the details I provided, that the explanation for the mystical up and down changes in the idling RPM is a false-air (air leak) problem. I will try and tighten it up somehow.

 

Thanks much! I'll provide feedback later!!

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[Subarule]

 

Thanks, Subarule. The smog check lasts for 2 years, so if the car runs better on a Weber carb and if the switch back and forth isn't too daunting, then it might be worth the trouble.

 

I think maybe, given what you have suggested and given the details I provided, that the explanation for the mystical up and down changes in the idling RPM is a false-air (air leak) problem. I will try and tighten it up somehow.

 

Thanks much! I'll provide feedback later!!

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When the Hitachi was coming off mine there seemed to be a jillion vac hoses associated with it. It's hell trying to find out where a leak is coming from, because there are hoses underneath the carb assembly. With a Weber those go away.

 

Just remember those Weber kit #s when you're ready to search for one.

 

Check here for a Weber kit:

 

http://www.carburetion.com/weber/weberpartscarb.asp

 

Their prices seem very good.

[subaruru]

The smog station refused to even test the car! They said it had an alignment problem - it does not have an alignment problem! (I can hold the steering wheel lightly pinched between thumb and forefinger, and it tracks with no pull!). I think that on the day, I was unlucky to get a wus for an inspector! He finally conceded that it might just be low tire pressure, and when he said that it pulled to the left, and I know that the left front tire is a bit low, I figured it might be that... the guy was still afraid to check it, had someone else try it (another wus! - imagine, it had been tested twice in the 3-4 previous days, with no problem!). I gave it up, also because I am now positive that there is something very WRONG with this carb...

 

Adding up ALL of the problems I have had with this motor, and - not least - THEIR SEQUENCE, with all of the clues and the hints that I have run across both here and elsewhere, I am now CONVINCED that the Hitachi carb on my car's engine is WARPED, and that this is the source of the VACUUM LEAK. Moreover, I am equally convinced that the warping of the carb occurred way back when, when I overheated the motor almost to the shutdown point (I can trace my misery with this car back to that epochal event!).

 

I must buy a rebuilt Hitachi carb (for emissions reasons, I can't go with the Weber carb, at least not for smog inspections), but now I am confused because there are apparently different DCZ-328s (they have suffixes): a 502, a 502A and a 503A (Autozone, or National Carburetors); and a SR039 or a SR040 (Royze Carburetors... the difference between the two is that the SR039 has a so-called 4-prong connector (whatever that is!) while the SR040 has a 3-prong connector). How de heck do I know which category my carb belongs to?! - I can't even find the DCZ-328 designation stamped on it anywhere!

 

H E L P !

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