ericcroll Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I'm looking at pulling a '96 EJ22 with a manual transmission to swap in for a '98 with an auto trans. I know that the difference in year is not a problem, but I'm unsure about the transmission situation. Does anybody know if the there is a difference between the two? Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I'm looking at pulling a '96 EJ22 with a manual transmission to swap in for a '98 with an auto trans. I know that the difference in year is not a problem, but I'm unsure about the transmission situation. Does anybody know if the there is a difference between the two? Eric EGR!!!! Trany doesn't matter. Use the flaxpalte off the '98 (it's the only one you'll have anyways). Double check that it DOES have an EGR though - just for kicks. Reseal it while it's out. Except in my opinion the rear main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericcroll Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 Thanks. I already checked the EGR. Reseal what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 O rogs on a 2.2 (dealer item). 2 couple inch thin Orings. One behind cam sensor on drivers front (do this before that cam seal) second on back of head on passenger side. Reseal baffle plate on rear of engine. Crank & cam seals. Usually timing belt and accessory belts, idlers and WP for me. Heck I even put new NGK's in it while it's out even though on a 2.2 they aren't bad to do in the car. They you're good for a while. Make sure you've read about torque converter seating and what happens if it's not (bad stuff). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericcroll Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 The torque converter and I have already gotten acquainted. Do all of these seals come in some kind of kit that you're aware of. I already got the timing belt kit with the idlers and WP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Seals - only OEM for me. Less that 10 bucks each. Aftermarkets usually don't last. Did the WP come with a metal coated rubber gasket or cardboard? My dealer list: (I usually don't bother with a new thermostat unless both old ones are bad/aftermarket/cruddy) crank seal 2 cam seals WP gasket (if all you have is a cardboard one). 2.2 cam O-rings (2 per bag) exhaust gaskets? Is the Ypipe the same?(both single port?) Auto parts store: Ultra grey for the baffle plate. Coolant oil & filter fuel filter NGK Cheap Ugroove plugs (BRK5E's or somethign for the 2.2 - green writing 2 dollar plugs) assembly lube if you don't have it sometimes for the seals and that plate you gotta remove to do the Oring on the back of the passenger side head. anti-seize for the plugs and dielectric grease. Hardware store: PVC collar to "set" crank and cam seals (Take them in to get the correct size. The same collar will set both seals). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericcroll Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 That's some pretty helpful poo, right there. Thank you very much. After having very little luck at the JY finding what I wanted, I've decided to just rebuild the '98 that I have (heads). This information will be quite useful. Can I get rebuilt heads cheaper than having mine redone? Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Refresh us on whats wrong with the heads. I have some cams dug out for you. I mean lots of have heads that were on engines that were overheated (HG's) abd/or bad rod knock. If that's what you have you might as well jsut have yours done. Are you SURE the car wasn't repeatedly run too hot? You're looking at some more money for parts too. Not much - like 100 bucks for HG's, possible intake (usually not needed). Getting heads done, and a lot more labor and expertise doing the HG's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericcroll Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 I'm not 100% sure what happened first, but the timing belt got about 6 teeth sheared off of it. It only had about 10000 miles on it and it appeared to be in very good shape... almost like something stopped one of the cams and the crank just stripped it. In any case, pistons met valves, and now they're hanging open. I'm open for suggestions, but I had a shop tell me $60 per head plus parts, and I thought that was pretty good. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Obviously depends on the price of the parts. I have enough heads that I never need valve work. I just have them surfaced and checked for cracks, cleaned, etc. I can't give you good advice on used versus having these done. But used ones you'd likely want to have surfaced anyways. Perhaps others who have had this issue can give their experiences and/or opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2manetoys Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 O rogs on a 2.2 (dealer item). 2 couple inch thin Orings. One behind cam sensor on drivers front (do this before that cam seal) second on back of head on passenger side. Reseal baffle plate on rear of engine. Crank & cam seals. Usually timing belt and accessory belts, idlers and WP for me. Heck I even put new NGK's in it while it's out even though on a 2.2 they aren't bad to do in the car. They you're good for a while. Make sure you've read about torque converter seating and what happens if it's not (bad stuff). I'm getting ready to reseal mine when I do the timing belts / WP / oil pump reseal. I won't be pulling the motor on mine so would you still recommend replacing the O rings and baffle plate you mentioned in the quote above? The dealer list you mentioned above will be Very handy. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jboymechanic Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Seals - only OEM for me. Less that 10 bucks each. Aftermarkets usually don't last. Did the WP come with a metal coated rubber gasket or cardboard? My dealer list: (I usually don't bother with a new thermostat unless both old ones are bad/aftermarket/cruddy) crank seal 2 cam seals WP gasket (if all you have is a cardboard one). 2.2 cam O-rings (2 per bag) exhaust gaskets? Is the Ypipe the same?(both single port?) Auto parts store: Ultra grey for the baffle plate. Coolant oil & filter fuel filter NGK Cheap Ugroove plugs (BRK5E's or somethign for the 2.2 - green writing 2 dollar plugs) assembly lube if you don't have it sometimes for the seals and that plate you gotta remove to do the Oring on the back of the passenger side head. anti-seize for the plugs and dielectric grease. Hardware store: PVC collar to "set" crank and cam seals (Take them in to get the correct size. The same collar will set both seals). I don't understand why everyone on this site insists on using OEM head gaskets and other seals. This is not an attack on you, davebugs, I just really am curious as to where this mentality comes from? If the OEM gaskets were so good, why do the head gaskets blow so often on many engines? If the OEM gaskets were so good, why replace them if they're not blown? Finally, it's not like Subaru manufactures their own gaskets, they have companies like Fel-Pro do it for them. In fact, I just ordered new Fel-Pro head gaskets for my '95 and it has the Fuji Heavy Industries logo right on it. Any one have any opinions as to why this is "the way"? Sorry in advance for hi-jacking the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Experience on the 2.5 DOHC's and price. OEM are about the same price as Fel-Pro's and don't have issues. Theoretically Subaru updated the design of the HG's. And if you ever do a 2.5 DOHC HG job look at the old one. The new one has more layers. That said the 2.2's HG's hold up and OEM would make less of a difference. FYI I use FelPro on most other cars - just not Subaru. 2.2's hold up so well that I don't do the HG's on them when doing an engine swap. I reseal them, tiing components, plugs, etc. Some folks have reported luck with "Cometics"(sp?). But if you search around here for folks that needed to do HG's TWICE I believe they were ALL done originally without OEM HG's. Why take the chance? It's a lot of work. The good news is that a fella outta be quicker the second time doing the exact same job on the exact same car. I can do without that kind of experience for a few bucks. I buy enough Subaru parts that the OEM's are about the same price as Felpro(I get both discounted). What you do is up to you. I'd say search a little and learn from others. Make up your own mind - then live with your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I'm getting ready to reseal mine when I do the timing belts / WP / oil pump reseal. I won't be pulling the motor on mine so would you still recommend replacing the O rings and baffle plate you mentioned in the quote above? The dealer list you mentioned above will be Very handy. Thanks! Is it A 2.2?. If so checking the oil pump screws isn't as important. Get the oil pump O ring at the dealer. Ultra-Grey at the outo parts to seal the oil pump. (If you go to the parts store they're gonna sell you a kit for the oil pump with the Oring and paper gasket if you let them). I forget but 95, 96, maybe more have the 2" thin cam Orings (come 2 to a set at the dealer). Later like 99 don't have these Orings. You can't reseal the baffle plate without pulling the engine. The rest of what is recommended can be done with the engine in the car. Don't forget cardboard or old paneling to protect the radiator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Is it A 2.2?. If so checking the oil pump screws isn't as important. Huh? Gotta' disagree with you on that one, davebugs. The screws can loosen on a 2.2 so while you have the pump in your hand you'd best check them and loctite 'em if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Huh? Gotta' disagree with you on that one, davebugs. The screws can loosen on a 2.2 so while you have the pump in your hand you'd best check them and loctite 'em if necessary. I agree on checking them if you remember. But I haven't found any loose on a 2.2. Always made me wonder if it's a different part#, or something to do with the manufacture or assembly of the pump for the 2.5's. Because I've witnessed it plenty of times (loose screws) but always on 2.5's. However if I put one back together and somehow forgot to check that I wouldn't tear it back apart. A 2.5 yes I would tear back into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2manetoys Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Is it A 2.2?. If so checking the oil pump screws isn't as important. Get the oil pump O ring at the dealer. Ultra-Grey at the outo parts to seal the oil pump. (If you go to the parts store they're gonna sell you a kit for the oil pump with the Oring and paper gasket if you let them). I forget but 95, 96, maybe more have the 2" thin cam Orings (come 2 to a set at the dealer). Later like 99 don't have these Orings. You can't reseal the baffle plate without pulling the engine. The rest of what is recommended can be done with the engine in the car. Don't forget cardboard or old paneling to protect the radiator. Yes it's a 2.2. And is the Ultra Grey the Anaerobic sealant I've been reading about? I'll probably pull the radiator & fans as one assembly so I don't screw them up. I've read that it doesn't take that much longer and give more room to maneuver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suba9792 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 dont forget the o-rings for the rear of the cams, little plate with 2 bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Ultra Grey is not the anaerobic sealant but it is an approved substitute. Be sure to apply it very carefully--you do not want it to glop out into the oil chamber (and the oil!) Pulling the radiator & fans is an excellent idea, especially for the first time. Makes working on the front end much more comfortable. There are two cam o-rings, one at the rear of the passenger side head and one at the front of the driver side head--behind the cam sprocket. Good luck and enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 dont forget the o-rings for the rear of the cams, little plate with 2 bolts. Already listed in the previous post. That plate can be a bugger to get started with the engine in the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Ultra Grey. It's all I use on Subaru's. At this point I've probably done over 100 engine swap and head gaskets with no issues. I have noticed that it seems to get "harder" after cured than a lot of sealers. The Anerobic stuff is kinda pricey. I don't consider Ultra Grey a step down in quality (if it were I wouldn't use it) but like all sealants you gotta be careful and not use too much. If so it finds it's way to bad places. Oil pump and cam failures that I've witnessed on teardowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I'll probably pull the radiator & fans as one assembly so I don't screw them up. I've read that it doesn't take that much longer and give more room to maneuver. If an auto the ATF lines can be a bit of a bugger to discinnect over by the battery. Some years the line has a bracket bolted to the underside of the drivers side head. Later the metal line and bracket was moved to the subframe basically under the battery. The ones where the metal lines are on the subframe are easier. I'd get some hose clamps for the ATF lines and rad hoses. If I remove the rad I usually buy new radiator hoses. I believe the pair are like 25 bucks from Dayco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jboymechanic Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 OEM are about the same price as Fel-Pro's and don't have issues. But Fel-Pro makes the OEM head gaskets for Subarus, that's the whole point. And I have NEVER purchased a part at dealer for less than what I can get it some where else. In many cases, such as with these head gaskets, the dealer is just a middle man and marking the price up. The only instance you save by going to the dealer is for a "dealer only" part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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