danbennett2u Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) Ok, Haven't been on here in a while because I haven't had any problems that I couldn't figure out... but here are the details: 92 Legacy awd auto 328k miles engine runs fine, but starting this morning, when sitting at stop lights for over 2 minutes or so I hear a click from under the driver side dashboard, and engine either stumbles badly or completely dies. It starts right up without issue. Obviously something electrical dying, anybody else had this issue so I know what part to replace? I drive 150 miles a day for work so definitely need this fixed! Thanks! Edited April 2, 2011 by danbennett2u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Anybody? I need to look at options for fixing this pretty quickly.... If it helps, no Check Engine light is triggered from this, just the dash lights up when it dies (as it should) nothing unusual once I restart the engine or immediately leading up to the click. I am thinking ECU replacement, but would love some opinions before I go blow close to 100 on a replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) is your AC compressor froze up? The click could be from defroster circuit cycling on and off, if the AC compressor is seized, it could be shutting off your car. Where is your climate controls set at? ecu at pick n pull is not near 100 bones. more ;like 35-45 they rarely if ever fail. clicking usually involves some relay. My guess is AC. 328k is enuf miles a compressor might fail. Edited March 29, 2011 by bheinen74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 There is nothing inside the ECU to make a "click" sound. It could still be the ECU but failures in that respect are very uncommon. I would lean toward the ignition relay or the fuel-pump relay..... one of them may have a weak driver coil or something. I would get my hand up there on the relay's and figure out which one is clicking.... try a replacement used one. If that doesn't cure it then the ECU could be at fault for not keeping the relay pulled in. Might be a grounding issue also as the relays are ground controlled by the ECU.... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 is your AC compressor froze up?The click could be from defroster circuit cycling on and off, if the AC compressor is seized, it could be shutting off your car. Where is your climate controls set at? +1 - that's a real possibility. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Not compressor, belt isnt even hooked up to it. If the relays are controlled by the ECU, it could be either the relay or the ECU and no way to tell which right? if that is the case should I just get whatever is cheaper and try that first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 sorry dumb question, relay is 15 bucks, will try that first. Thanks for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I'm on the bad relay bandwagon. The main relay is right under the dash and I read about one of those calling it quits every now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 Ok I have read that it is under the dash, and that you have to move the fuse box, but I cant find the thing. where exactly is the relay located? It isnt immediately obvious to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 OK I "Think" I can see it based on the location in this diagram: http://surrealmirage.com/subaru/files/swap/elect_unit_loc/6-3_electrical_unit_location03.jpg But I cant see the connector, and I am completely at a loss of how to get my hands up there.... How do you even get access to this thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) Ya it's a tight one had my fuel pump relay die in my 93 legacy wagon too. I replaced both the fuel pump and ignition relay. Look close to the side there is a brown relay and a silverish/white relay. Get some long pliers in there and pop them off there holders. You can then grab the wires or the relays from the bottom corner lying on your back and pull the wires down so they are more accessible and can easily be unplugged. I found mine were wet from rust around my winshield letting water in. I left my relays just dangling you can kind of tuck them under the carpet so they aren't just hanging by the wires. Another thing to make sure is all the grounds are good! I recently had a friend with again similar clicking and all of a sudden didn't want to start at all was towed to my house. Found the main ground to the motor was corroded cleaned that one, and ran a seperate ground for the motor and transmission and chassis with some nice connectors and everything was perfect car was also running better then ever with no hesitation! PS: forgot to add you need to remove the knee panel with 4 screws in order to see the relay. Edited March 30, 2011 by ericem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 thanks, had to remove both fuse panel and the bracket holding the fuse panel in order to get up there well enough, but am VERY thankful that the wires are long enough to pull it down to unhook! I would be surprised if grounding is a problem, this is a colorado car and there really isnt any corrosion under the hood etc, but will keep it in mind if replacing the relay does not fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 good to hear! A bit of a pain working on your back though but it's great once it's all done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 Ok, its not the fuel pump relay. Same symptoms, until after driving on the interstate for about 15 minutes without issue, I exited, and when I tried to accelerate the car stumbled, got the click, but instead of the car recovering I pretty much lost about half of my power. Engine still seems to be firing on all cylinders, but it doesnt have any power. Idle is fine, and if I rev it with no load it sounds normal. Exhaust does smell a little "gassy" though. Clicking under dash is a little more frequent, but does not directly correlate to the loss of power, as that is constant and the clicking is pretty intermittent. I am starting to lean toward the ECU again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I`d read the codes even though there is no CEL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Any other lights or electronics affected by this? Does anything happen if you load the system with all the lights on, blower fan, rear defogger, wipers running, etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 Electrical load doesn't seem to matter. The click/stumble does not seem to effect cabin electrics, radio stays on, etc. The recent loss of power only seems to be when there is load on the engine, and does not seem to be doing anything weird to the gauges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 So you have a loss of engine power, not electrical power, correct? I'm still skeptical of the main relay. I shall confer with the FSM to get other ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 Two separate issues that started occuring within 1 day of each other: 1: click under dash, engine dies or stumbles. does not effect cabin electronics 2: loss of power when engine is under load, however the drive home today I only experienced number 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Is there any sort of alarm system installed in this car with ignition kill for theft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) did you check the ignition relay as well was there any signs of water on the fuel pump relay? and there is no CEL at all correct and the CEL light does work on startup? Edited April 1, 2011 by ericem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmark7 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 i hadda similar problem with my 98 leg it would start then around 2k rpm it would click and die kicked a CEL for the crank sensor then it went away, never to return, guess i lucked out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 No alarm system, no water around relays, have not checked the ignition relay, the only way I can check it is to buy a replacement since I do not have any spares. I have an ECU to try that I can return if it is not the issue, will not be working on this until tomorrow and will let you guys know what happens with ecu replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 I swapped out the ECU this morning (Why is this easier to replace than fuel pump relay???) Same issue, click under dash after idling for a few minutes, and engine either stumbles or dies. Sometimes it will go for a minute or two, sometimes it will click within 15 seconds of each click. I was able to feel that it is the fuel pump relay clicking and not the ignition relay. I put original ecu back in and pulled codes using black connectors, flashed error 22 (knock sensor, probably from the slight clacking I get on cold startups). If this was a grounding issue wouldn't it occur more frequently with movement? So in summary: No relevant codes Not being caused by faulty ECU Not being caused by faulty fuel pump relay (unless new replacement has exact same issue) No alarm system installed on car Not moisture related Not dependent on temperature or electrical load Fuel pump relay definitely what the click is, not the ignition relay Any other ideas I can check? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbennett2u Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 By the way I am open to educated guesses, as this is not a common issue and I dont expect a lot of people to have personal experience in this. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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