UMT Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Ok, I've done my homework and ready to get started on replacing my timing belt, etc.. tomorrow morning. I was reading a thread on the forum regarding whether or not it is necessary to remove the radiator or just the fan system and I would like to hear current input. 99 Impreza Outback Sport - EJ223 - with A/C... It won't do me much good to remove the radiator by itself as I still have the A/C 'radiator' in front of it. (I haven't looked at it real closely yet but I don't see a way to remove the A/C without losing the refrigerant????) I would like to simply remove the fan system but I am concerned whether or not I'll have enough room to see the lineup of the timing belt, etc.. I really could use some input on this aspect of the job. Thanks, UMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Plastic rad fan assy's. Unbolt and unplug them both and lift them outta the way. Place cardboard or an old piece of pannelling behind the radiator so you don't mess it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 By all means remove the radiator & fans! They should come out as a unit as I remember, just remove hoses, electrical connections and two bolts. Very easy to do and that few inches of space gives you all the visibility and access you need. You do not need to remove the condenser (the A/C 'radiator') just be careful, maybe protect it a bit with cardboard. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 You may as well remove the radiator - you get a lot more room to work and you will lose the coolant anyway when you pull the water pump. It's going to give you another 4" or so to work with. Which is very valuable. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 If you remove the rad and it's an auto you've gotta unto the ATF lines as well as the rad hoses. Unplug fan connectors, 2 bolts for rad supports, 2 hoses, 2 ATF lines, and you're good to go. Somehow I usually get ATF in the pan with the coolant but am usually putting new coolant in anyways. Sometimes the ATF lines can be hard to reach(lower one) and be a bit crusty. So often for me it's whether I wanna hassle with typically older ATF lines (clamps will be junk - that's part of the problem). Another factor for you could be if you're doing the WP you'll be draining the coolant anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 When doing an automatic (for the first time) I have taken to just ordering the factory ATF hoses and having them on-hand for the job. If I don't use them I can return them.... but I almost always do. The high temps of the ATF and the age usually means they don't seal well which means more clamp pressure is needed..... at that point it's like over-tightening a hardened accesory belt to make it not slip - you are just asking for problems. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Good catch on the ATF hoses, gentlemen! Guess I only ever think of manual tranny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 The hoses (and the OEM clamps) can be a pain. Especially the lower one. Clamps rust and twist, limited access to get them off even with hose clamp pliers and battery removed. If you remove the ATF lines you'll very likely need new hose clamps for them too. I always replace all clamps. I live in the rust belt. One of the assortment wall racks is what 50-60 bucks? Ideal clamps? Then I usually buy a different brand that aren't the same sizes and end up with a drawer full of boxes anyways. If folks are unaware boxes of clamps are much, much cheaper than individual. Like if you're already buying 2 often for the price of 3 or 4 you can get a box of 10 or 12. Kinda like car tail light bulbs(other than headlights). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMT Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 Thanks to everyone! It's a manual tranny. I think as this is my first time, (I'm a virgin! Ha) I'll just drain the radiator and pull it. Been looking at it and doesn't seem to be a huge operation. Am also going to pull the water pump also as this may be part of the problem. I REALLY appreciate everyone's feedback! Thanks, UMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Since it's your first time doing it, pull the rad. Makes more room. I find it easier to pull the rad than the fans anyway, two bolts and two plugs the rad is loose. I usually pull the top hose anyway because that's how I fill the engine back up with coolant, and the bottom hose isn't much extra to take off... On the note of tranny lines from before. I find it easier to disconnect everything but the bottom line. Then pull the rad up and tilt it, makes much easier access to get that one off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMT Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 Well, boys (and girls?) SUCCESS! New timing belt kit went in like a piece of cake! Had a idler gear that was TOTALLY shot. Found bearings, metal shavings etc. in the bottom of the timing belt cover. It's a wonder it ran at all and I didn't mess a bunch of other stuff up. Actually, that was the only thing wrong but I replaced it all! Sure glad I learned how to do this as I refuse to buy anything but Subaru's. This one should be good for another 180K. Ha. Thanks to all for your help and advice! UMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Always like a happy ending. Congratulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Way to go! Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walczyk Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Did you replace the tensioner? They are expensive, I'm not sure if they come with a kit, but they're supposed to be replaced every 105k i think.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMT Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 Did you replace the tensioner? They are expensive, I'm not sure if they come with a kit, but they're supposed to be replaced every 105k i think.. Yeah, I replaced the tensioner also as it came with the kit. As this was my first time, (sigh) the number of miles on the car and my only means of transportation, I wasn't going to play around. It all got replaced except the water pump which I did take a part, listened to with a mechanic stethoscope and it seemed fine. At this point, now that I know how to do this, if I had to do it again, it would be easy. My only concern now is that the belt went on VERY tight. I was reading another thread this morning where a too tight belt (poorly manufactured) ended up being the ultimate cause of a noise issue. I was concerned about this as I did the job so I actually counted the teeth on the new vs. the old and they were exactly the same. Also compared all bearings/gears to the old and they were the same so I just kept on trucking. Actually tried replacing the old belt and it was just as tight so I ended up using the new belt. I bought this car with 105k miles on it and from what I was able to find out, all the maintenance on the car was handled by the Subaru dealer at recommended intervals. But now I'm wondering if a too tight belt was the ultimate cause of the idler gear blowing out? So, I'm going to keep a close eye on it for noises. I bought the parts from Advance Auto and they all carry a 12/12000 mile warranty so if I have to get back in there again, I will. Any thoughts on this 'too tight' timing belt thing? Thanks, UMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 There isn't a lot of slack when putting the belt on, that's pretty normal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walczyk Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 If you bought it at 105k then they might have replaced everything already. The timing belt, drive belts, tensioner, and a lot of other things (maybe the water pump thermostat if its dirty) gets replaced by subaru after 105k miles, its supposed to anyway. I would find out with car facts or something else, before you end up doing unnecessary maintenance. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMT Posted April 3, 2011 Author Share Posted April 3, 2011 I did the 'carfax' thing before I bought the car and all it really shows is who owned the car. From the looks of things, I do believe the timing belt, idlers, water pump, etc. were all replaced. I could have actually just replaced the worn/damaged idler gear. I'm still glad I bought a good kit and now I know for sure what's in there. Also glad I learned how to do it myself as it turned out to be not all that big of a deal doing the actual work. For those who are going to do this the first time, all I can say is STUDY, make sure you have the tools you are going to need, the right parts, take your time and trust the advice of the good folks on this forum! There are apparently slight differences between the J222 engine and the J223. For instance, all the pictures I looked at regarding replacing the timing belt showed a belt tensioner with 2 bolts. Mine only has one. Also, the instructions that came with the kit mentioned 2 timing belts, one being slightly larger than the other. (Having more teeth) The box said it was for a 222/223 so I trusted it as it had the same number of teeth as the one that was in it, which I'm fairly certain was replaced at a Subaru dealership. All I know is that the car runs like a top again! And, if I have any issues in the future, I now have a few 'spare parts' that are in good condition and can easily get back in there if I have to. Love my Subi! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 (edited) if one of your t-belt idlers failed, you can be sure it was not replaced recently. most shops, even dealers, spin the idlers by hand and if they sound ok they don't replace them. as you have learned, this is a big mistake. you have to do the job twice. and on an interference engine you would probably have to replace some valves as well. congrats on a job well done. Edited April 3, 2011 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Belt and tensiononers only = Just pull fans. Water pump replacement too = Pull the whole radiator with fans attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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