granthood Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I own a 97 legacy wagon awd auto. My car is without a doubt suffering from torqu e bind. i have tried the fwd fuse and nothing happens. light on dash doesnt come on to indicate awd is disconnected and torque bind remains. from what i have read from you guys i understand that to indicate a bad "duty c solenid" or clutch pack. my problem is finding a new solenoid. i dont know if it is referred to as something else but i cant find a "duty c" solenoid. i have found tranny solenoids with other names but not "duty c". can someone clarify? part number maybe? i am also looking for trailing arm brackets for a first gen ob. Any leads would be apreciated. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Here: http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/cp_partlistbymod.php?subcat=Transmission+Solenoids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 that's probably a dealer only part, or at least not something you'll find at a general auto parts store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granthood Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 Found the "c" solenoid aka "transfer duty solenoid". Thanks for the link. Is the solenoid change really as easy as taking the tail housing off and replacing it? Not having to pull the trans makes life easy. Would you guys suggest replacing clutches or the "clutch pack" while I'm in there. Trying to breathe new life in my little soobie. Wouldn't be able to without the know how. Thanks a million guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 it sounds like you have a very unique set of circumstances. 1. no flashing AT Temp light at start up indicating a bad duty c. if this is correct i wouldn't replace the duty c, it's not bad. at least the trans computer does not think so. 2. no FWD light on the dash (its red and low, left of center) when you put in the fuse. if this is correct the duty c is bad, replace it. i have never heard of this combination. one or the other, sure, but not both. something is not right. how does the car / trans run other than the binding?? does it shift alright? goes through all 4 gears? good pick up, down shifts ok? how long have you had the car? how long have you had the problem? do the AT Temp and the FWD lights come on with all the other lights when you turn the key on, just before you start the car?? it could be that the bulbs are bad or missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Question. Does your AT TEMP light come on at start up to let you know it is working? It should illuminate for about 10 seconds or so and then go out. If it does do that and isn't blinking, then your duty C is good and you can save your money. If it soes not come on, then the bulb is bad or someone has taken the bulb out of the dash. You will need to replace the bulb so that you can get the transmission codes and figure out what is bad. The best way to fix the problem is to replace the solenoid, if it is bad, and the grind down the grooves on the drum. Once you do those, the problem should be solved. If you are not sure about the grinding, you can do a search and you will find a thread about the repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granthood Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 To clarify. My AT temp light does come on at start up and goes off after a few seconds. After that the light stays off. I've tried the fuse and no light appears on dash and there's no binding relief. I've had the wagon about 4 years. Binding has always been there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granthood Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 Other than the binding the trans shifts smooth and feels strong. I've replace fluid and filter in trans every 15000 miles. As preventative maintenance. Fluid has always looked decent when changed. I guess fyi. My check engine light stays on. I've tracked it to knock sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 It sounds like your clutches and the drive drum are the culprit. I would replace them both or do the grind on your drum. The solenoid is not the problem. Also. fix any CEL problems and see if that affects the tranny. Some of the engine codes are actually cross linked to the tranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) have you tried changing the fluid?? since you have no flashing light, the duty c seems ok. the duty c bleeds off fluid pressure to regulate power to the rear. no pressure no rear power. the fuse activates the duty c 100% of the time instead of cycling it on / off. no power to the duty c means full fluid pressure. full pressure equals binding. dirt in the lines might cause the system to NOT bleed off pressure. so the duty c may not be bad. but it is a moot point. if you open it up you may as well replace it so you don't have to go back in later. but my real point: if the duty c is ok, something else is causing the problem. maybe dirty fluid or passage ways or grooves worn in the hub/drum. but if all you do is the duty c you may still have the problem. you are going to have to open it up and look at it. it would be really handy to have a replacement rear extension housing with good duty c, good hub, and good clutch plates ready to swap in. but that would be complicated and will cost you more. Edited April 4, 2011 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 It should be clarified that the AT Temp light will only flash after the 2nd key-on in a short period of time. You have to turn the ignition on, then off, then on again to get the light to flash indicating stored codes..... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granthood Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share Posted April 4, 2011 Thanks for the insights. Guess I'm going to pull tail housing. See what I see. If I need will I have to get the drum and clutches from Subaru directly? Ill let y'all know what I find. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ionlyhave3suubs Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Is there a way to bench test the duty c solenoid? Just wondering, I am experiencing some torque bind also in my 97 outback and may be digging into it in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 If the solenoid is bad you will get a flashing AT TEMP light. You have drums and clutches that are going bad. Come to Richmond one weekend and we can get it done in a couple of hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narrowpath Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Don't ignore the TCU (Transmission computer unit) under the dash (Driver's side). It's the gold colored box with all the wires coming out of it. I had the same issues and pulled the rear of tranny and replaced the Duty C.....no change. Replaced the TCU out of a wrecked one at a junk yard. Fixed it right up. It's a five minute job and cost me $40 bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granthood Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 checking the tcu would be much easier. can you not buy a new one. i cant find one. nor do i have the luxury of a junkyard with any soobies. nobody knows what a subaru is in southern arkansas. much less own them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) did you look here: www.car-part.com ........look under ''computer'' i think. i usually suggest sorting your search by distance since shipping an engine or trans is so expensive. but for this part, you might sort by price and get a cheap one. shipping should be less then $10 i would guess. but you can do both ans then decide. ps: i have one from a 97 GT if you can't find one , but i'm sure there is one on that website, and probably cheaper. Edited April 7, 2011 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granthood Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 :banana:havent been on in a while cause my soobie is better than ever. thanks for all the help! now my 97 legacy L wagon 2.2 has a SJR 3" lift, new 28" tires, new outback struts and springs, a new knock sensor(which made a huge difference), free flowing 2nd cat with no guts, and best of all. no torq bind! thanks for the help on the duty c solenoid. now that ive done it i like to tell anyone needing to do it. go for it! its very straight forward and simple. just pay attetion and keep ************ clean. it did help that my tranny was dropped 3" by my lift. didnt have to lower tranny or anything. had all the room in the world to do the "surgery". im trying to get some pics on here. almost forgot about my custom front bumper. rear bumper being planned out. along with skid plates and a snorkle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Congratulations, that's great news! So what exactly did you do to fix the torque bind, replace the Duty C solenoid? Grind the clutch plates in the extension housing? Both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granthood Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 i changed the solenoid and clutch pack which actually looked to be in ok shape. no grinding needed. my car is smoother than ever in tight turns. heres my baby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Fantastic! Thanks. Hey, she's looking gooood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkasper2 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I have torque bind in my 1998 Outback 68,600 miles. Bought used at about 39,000. Tranny was supposedly serviced once before I bought it. I did a drain and fill at 43,000 and double drain and fill at 59,700 (proactive). No AT flashing light, the FWD fuse lights the FWD light and fixes the torque bind. Had one incident about 4-5 years ago with flashing AT light. The dealer did a diagnosis, reset the light and said all was fine. The torque bind started about 6-8 months ago. Since this car now goes only about 3.000 miles a year, I have ignored it, but would like to get it fixed before more expensive damage occurs. Before going to the dealer, I am going to replace the transmission computer on the chance it may be bad. After that info, my question is -when I remove the connections to the computer, are there tabs that must be pressed to remove the wires or do they pull straight out? I gave a cursory glance and a tentative yank (they were tight) last week, but decided to wait until I received used computer to disconnect. Any help? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 check your tires, a mis-matched, under-inflated tire, or 2 can cause this. it is hard to believe that the fluid is dirty and causing this since you have changed it twice. tires first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Trust me, you are wasting your money on the computer. You need a new duty C solenoid. It just hasn't gone bad enought to throw a code. Replace it and the problem should be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkasper2 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Thanks for your input. Searching seems to indicate that if the FWD fuse cures the torque bind, the Duty C is OK. The tires are Michelin, all four purchased by me at about 38,500 miles. They are all the same model and size, have been rotated every 5,000 to 6,000 miles, and show no unusual wear. I check the pressure regularly. Will check circumference to be sure. A couple of posts indicated that replacing the computer solved a torque bind problem. So, having had a problem in the past with a flashing AT Temp light, I invested $34 in a computer from a '98 Outback Ltd. which I was told had about 75,000 miles on it. One a part at a time is good when diagnosing, and if I have to go the dealer, I hopefully can eliminate the computer as a problem. Will be able to try the computer and measure the tires after the end the month, and will update with results. Do the connections to the trans computer just pull out or are there tabs which must be pressed to release the connections? Tough to see when I was upside down. Thanks again for your help, JIm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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