cameronpark Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Hey guys Im pretty new to the suby game, I recently bought an 87 hatch gl with a 4 inch lift, currently running an ea81, which is wayyy to slow for me and the friends owning it. So engine swap it is! Now i know alot of you are going to tell me to go do my searching and researching. but please dont. I have, ive searched high and low, multiple sites, ive spent almost every night for atleast a week looking on sites and through peoples threads. Ive talked to multiple people in person, suby techs. and every where i go i get different answers. To start I have two main questions. What ej's can be swapped without major modifications? I know ej22s and ej22ts are very common, recently i was told an ej205 out of a 02 wrx would be bolt on? I cant find anything on this so i was hoping someone could help me. I know wirings a pain and not easy, and its a retrofit so it wont be exactly easy, but i want to know my options. Second question brings me back to the ej22. I know there are ej22ts but they are not exactly easy to find. Ive found articles saying hell yeah turbo them to 8 psi and your good, and some say that you cant do anything unless you basically get a entire rebuild internally? If you can this is one of my top choices for engines, since legacy donor cars are fairly cheap here. A third question isnt an engine question, but still about the swap. I plan on getting a donor car, that has an awd 5 or 6 speed tranny. Besides cv drivelines that get modded, is there any other mods needed to mount the rear diff and make this an awd hatch? Thank you guys for any help at all Ps. this is the new toy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameronpark Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 Also I might have an opportunity to aquire a wrecked 2002 wrx wagon, as a donor car to do this swap. This car would give me everything i need, and the horsepower i want. But what i would like to know is how bad is the swap itself? I heard alot of modifying and changing things is involved, unlike an ej22 swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1982gl4 Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Your biggest problem with any DOHC swap, is that the unibody hits the heads so the area around the engine has to be modified to fit, this is why the EJ22 is normally used, as it is only SOHC and doesn't require cutting to fit.( If you want more power you could build a frankenmotor using a EJ25 block, and EJ22 heads this will up the compression and get quite a bit of power and still fit in an ea81) As for the AWD swap it is pretty challenging, the trans tunnel on an EA81 is very small compared to an EJ so getting the trans in there is a tight fit. Custom trans mounts have to be made along with shift linkages, and a driveshaft. The rear diff bolts up no problem as far as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KootenayJK Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Basically, any legacy or impreza engine can be used. The best choices, however, seem to be the 1997 and older 2.2l Also, if you go turbo, there are a lot more complications. I. Think most would recommend dropping the 2.2 in and seeing how that works for you. Transmission: keep in mind that if you swap in the AWD trans, you will lose low range gearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameronpark Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 Thanks for all the info guys, a non turbo or ej22 is our last resort i guess so i want to look more into the ej205 fit. Do you know how much cutting/fitting there needs to be done to fit? Or any build threads i seem to not be able to find? If everything else is just a tight fit and some modding i think we are willing to tackle the project and get this one done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1982gl4 Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Pooparu and I have both done an AWD swap Pooparus thread (his will realate a little more to yours as his car is a hatch) http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=98829&highlight=Project+ej+hatch+continues And mine, still and EA81 but a Brat http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=117101&highlight=Brat+build%21 And it looks like the "frame rails" (I use that term lightly as the ea81 is a unibody car) in an ea81 are about 31 inches across, and a DOHC engine is about 33 inches, so a couple inches at least have to be taken out. I was trying to find pictures, but most people just do a 2.2 swap so no cutting is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameronpark Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 Thank you so much for your post! both links were very helpful, im reading through both and they have great info! I saw in your thread about a 5 lug conversion and disc brakes, what all parts do you need to complete the swap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1982gl4 Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 You have to get the rear hubs off from an XT6, and these are hard to find and can be very pricey, and if you are running front legacy brakes like I am, you can fab up a backing plate from a legacy to fit, like in Pooparu's thread, so you can have and e brake or you can just not have one like me ( I will get one in someday) As for the front I went the hard way, I got xt6 control arms and welded in new mounts so I could put new front hubs on (Subaru has a larger balljoint for the five lug cars) Instead of doing this though you could simply have the current control arms you have machined to fit the larger balljoint. Now for the front spindle you can run the xt6 stuff and this will let you have a front e-brake like you currently do and this will solve the e-brake problem, but if you want better stopping power you can put the spindle assembly off from a new Subaru such as a legacy, or an impreza. I currently have outback dual piston calipers on mine. Now with this swap things like custom cv's with have to be made (shortened ej cv's if you are running legacy brakes, not sure about the spline count for the cv's on an XT6 as I have never had one or even worked on one so if you went for the xt6 stuff you might have to swap one of the cv ends) For struts, with a lift ej ones may fit, but with the the way I'm going on my project I want it lower, because the ej struts were so much larger I could have bashed the towers a bunch until they started to be able to turn, but I went with coilovers because I found a set for wicked cheep, and they were going to give me the ride hight/handling that I wanted. Also things like brake lines will have to be made, and if you go with the xt control arms the tire rods on the rack will have to be swapped out for longer ones (I used the ones off from an outback) Sorry for the novel I hope this info helps! Cheers -Shaun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 (edited) You already have a 6 lug truck pattern - why would you go to a 5 lug? That's just silly for a lifted wheeler. Especially for how much work it will be. Trust me when I tell you that the EJ205 has too much power for an EA81 chassis and will not fit well. It's also too complex for a wheeler and turbo's like to have the turbo spooled up to make power - which you can't really do when wheeling. You need gearing more than anything and a bit more power will help. An N/A EJ22 is the best choice along with a 5 speed D/R transmission. Not the AWD. GD Edited April 14, 2011 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameronpark Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 Thanks for all the info man! I'm still researching it all and tryihng to learn as much as possible before starting! Gd: its lifted right now but I think we are going to drop it and put it back to standard height for this. It was going to be wheeler now we are headed towards quick. We want it to be turbo, and since ej22ts are impossibly to find the 205 was our next choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameronpark Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 Also I wasn't exact sure about the 5 lug, but the 6 is just a rusted adapter with broken studs, so I was looking into my options since I know 4 lug, the stock, isn't easy to find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Good luck with the swap. Many (dozens) come here and say they are going to do stuff like that and few actually do. It's a lot more complex than most people realize. I put a frankenmotor in a Brat for a fellow member - it's about 190 HP give or take - which is 40 HP less than a 205. It's got so much power that the chassis had been permanently deformed and the doors don't close right anymore. It's very fast - as fast as an EJ20 WRX in a straight line we figure. The power to weight is favorable... but it's no kind of safe with that much power. The suspension and brakes are both sketchy above 85 MPH. What you want to do is possible - but if you have to ask "how" then you probably don't have the background or skills to do it. The 205 heads will not easily fit between the frame rails and you'll have to pull the engine out to change the spark plugs or even remove a plug wire . GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1982gl4 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 (edited) it's about 190 HP give or take - which is 40 HP less than a 205. It's got so much power that the chassis had been permanently deformed and the doors don't close right anymore. I didn't really think about this... I may have to add bracing under the car which should not be that hard But yes it will not be an easy task, there's one member that put full wrx cross members under a brat to help with the handling, but that would and enormous project on it's own, it took me a few days just to modify my subframe, I would imagine it take weeks, or months to do that correctly. Even the AWD swap will be a challenge. But it is all doable with enough time...and money, I have a lot into mine so far. Edited April 17, 2011 by 1982gl4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameronpark Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 We are planning on puttting a full roll cage and brace the two subframes together somehow. we still want to do this, i know itll be a challange, it wont be easy, but right now we have a good amount of money to throw at this, and time so if there was a time to do it its now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 How much is "a good amount" of money in your opinion? GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameronpark Posted April 17, 2011 Author Share Posted April 17, 2011 We have around 2 grand right now. And the three of us work full time, making decent money (more than minimum wage) with few bills, the rest towards this and willing to be dedicated to this throughout the summer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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