Should I buy this Outback?!

[cappedup]

Just been to view a 1998 2.5 outback Wagon. Headgasket failed and replaced 3000 miles ago, it now has 120k. Its the 30th Year limited edition, which i think means the bottom half is a different colour and it has heated seats.

 

The guy selling replaced the HG, i liked him, believed what he said, and am pretty sure the job was done well. (I'm a suspicious bugger and for me to like him is rare!) The new style gasket went in, the multi-layered metal one.

 

At the viewing I spotted some water on the left side, just under the top hose. Couldnt see a leak. Then when it had been running for about 5 minutes and some temperature got into it, the top left of the rad started to steam, like a tiny pin hole. Guy says he never spotted that before and seemed happy to replace the rad.

 

The car was running constantly for about 90 minutes, which included 2 15 minute drives, up hills, at speed, low speed etc. I feel it got a good water system, pressure test etc.

 

After the first 15 minute drive the tiny steam leak seemed to vanish.

 

Other issue was a CEL code 400. EGR fault. Looking over the engine i spotted a small (half inch) hose not connected, on the left side, on top of a small black box on the very end of the block. Something to do with pressure inside top of engine. There was a matching one attached properly on the other side. We put this back, reset the code and the CEL stayed out, but he confessed its a fickle thing and can spring back on. Is it likely this hose was at fault?

 

I liked the engine. Seems like a daft thing to say, but i feel I can work on that car. I'm no ace mechanic, but i can use a spanner and liked the access to most of it - apart from the rear right plug!! So some questions:

 

 

Are there any figures for the reliability of the newer head gaskets? Of course a lot depends on how they are installed, but in general are they seen as solid?

 

CEL, i can really imagine those things being a real bugger to knock off and determine the faults. If i purchase the car, do i have to have it inspected in NYS to change the ownership? The car has an inspection sticker up until December at the moment. Last thing i want is to spend on an unknown problem just to get the thing on the road.

 

Does the pin prick in the rad seem like a symptom of anything else? The rad seemed solid apart from that. Coolant didnt seem to be at a high pressure in the hoses.

 

Oh, under braking I detected a bit of vibration. Guy says its likely to be the front rotors. Might get worse, might stay the same. I've owned a stack of cars and never had that symptom. There was no veer left or right, stayed true, was evident braking from most speeds, could be described as a judder more than vibration. Sound familiar at all?

 

I guess the big question is: 1998 - post gasket fail, 120k, worth $3750? I think it is, but with the couple of things listed I was going to offer $3500.

 

Oh, where are my manners?! Name's Chris, if i buy this car (and i do love it, boy what a sturdy drive) you'll see plenty more of me. I'm quite a tinkerer and would enjoy posting pics and stuff so you fine fellas can help me through things.

 

EDIT, forgot to say its Auto transmission. Selection was silky smooth. But wondered if the juddering might have been some kind of automatic gearbox run-down thing. Ok, I made that up. Only ever had one automatic, a Volvo 343, crazy car. It had a drive belt for pete's sake!

Edited April 15, 2011 by cappedup
Forgot something

[johnceggleston]

welcome to the wonderful world of subaru.

 

it sounds like there are a couple of things to check further.

 

the ''pin hole leak'' for one, and the reliability of the head gaskets for the other.

 

the pin hole could be a slightly loose clamp or a bad hoes. (this assumes you saw it coming from the top hose and not an ''unknown'' place.) i would not buy it without a good bit of confidence.

 

the head gaskets on the other hand is a crap shoot. were they done correctly? were subaru gaskets used? (sounds like they were.) and more importantly was the engine driven / run while overheating? which would / might cause it to throw a rod or spin a rod bearing.

 

the real test for an engine with BAD head gsakets is a 30- 45 minute drive, or more, at hiway speed. typically bad head gaskets can idle all day, and run around town as well, with no sign of a problem.

 

your take on the guy is valid and worth a good bit. if you didn't trust him i would say walk, he is a stranger after all.

 

my best advice is, if you buy it and learn you need to spend $1500 on head gaskets in the first year, can / will you survive financially. if the answer is no, you are better off buying one with bad gaskets and have a quality shop re-do them. or do a swap which eliminates the bearing concern.

 

i have a 98 outback auto trans w/ 141k miles for sale. i just installed a 95 2.2L non-interference engine in it. so the head gaskets and other related issues are not a concern. same price.

Edited April 15, 2011 by johnceggleston

[cappedup]

I had a real good look around the top hose and couldnt see anything. The clip on it wasnt the best quality, but still never saw a drop from it. The hose itself was brand new, still had the clean sticker on it etc and had that 'new rubber' look. Part of the HG renovation. I'm certain the leak was from the rad, but it was close to the hose join, and steam does have a habit of travelling. If it was that join i would blame the clip, which wasnt as top quality as it could have been. Would there be anything to make the leak vanish? Expansion somewhere?

 

By all acounts the engine didnt cook. It blew its coolant which was spotted before the temperature rose. By all accounts! I took that as a very good thing after reading lots on here before going to look There are some things that I just wont know for sure. Even if i did like the guy. Ive been viewing a few cars (this is the first Sub) and walked away from a few as it didnt feel right. Just some kind of Spider Sense thing.

 

I felt like I gave the car a good test, and the HG is 3000 miles old. I had it at 50mph at least for 20 minutes.

 

I could survive the financial outlay and have the HG done again should they fail, but it will hurt in many ways. Just that car was such a little mover i feel like taking a punt.

 

But, not if the judder indicates a transmission issue, or the EGR fault is always a $700 fix, or the pin hole leak is indicative of iminant meltdown etc.

 

Cheers for the reply.

[johnceggleston]

one other important piece of info.

 

is the seller the the same owner who was driving it when the gaskets failed.? or did he buy it with bad gaskets to repair and sell.? the difference is that the guy who buys to repair and sell, he has more wiggle room on the price. he may want $3500, but he may take 2750, or 3000 or even 2500.

 

the owner who has just made the repair and is now selling to avoid taking a complete bath financially, he may be less likely to deal, unless he is so tired of it that he just wants out.

 

regardless, it is good info to have before making an offer.

[cappedup]

The guy had it for a couple of years, as a second car for his wife, and him for fishing etc. his wife was driving at the time of the 'splurge'. He finished the repair in Dec, I guess got the inspection done, and has driven it since, until they have now replaced thier 2nd car with something else. It looks very old sat next to his big ol' GMC!

 

I'm an English bloke, and we arn't that great at haggleing, as a nation. The window price is usually close to what gets paid. Whats the etiquette here? Do i insult the guy by offering 2500, or sensibly stick in my real offer of 3500, which covers a new rad and some brake pads?

[johnceggleston]

depending on the condition of the car, 3750 is a fair asking price, and 3500 is a pretty fair selling price. but 3000 would be better for you.

 

there are 2 pricing web sites you can visit.

 

the first is used by dealers and sellers to show what a car SHOULD sell for. http://www.kbb.com .

 

the second shows more closely what they actually sell for. http://www.edmunds.com .

 

it is not usual for there to be a 2000$ difference between the two. but if you buy the car for 3500 and drive 35k miles , not bad. drive it 50k miles, you did ok. 100k , you did great.

 

buying a used car for 3500 and driving it 50k miles is like buying a new car for $25,000 and driving it for 350k miles.

 

what you are buying is miles primarily, and comfort second and lastly enjoyment. and you are paying for them in advance. so the more miles you get for your money the better.

[1-3-2-4]

Dont know if its been said but the warped brakes feeling just could be the build up of brake pad materials on the rotor surface.

 

I got tired of that feeling coming back in less then 100 miles so I switched to ceramic brake pads.

[cappedup]

buying a used car for 3500 and driving it 50k miles is like buying a new car for $25,000 and driving it for 350k miles.

 

what you are buying is miles primarily, and comfort second and lastly enjoyment. and you are paying for them in advance. so the more miles you get for your money the better.

 

What about buying a $1000 car and it going for 20k? After all that with the Subaru, we got offered a Jeep Cherokee with a quarter of a million miles for 1g. Its been looked after by one guy since new and is in astounding condition for what its been through. Eletric evrything with 100s of toys inside. Grand Cherokee Limited.

 

It has a couple of issues which are easily sorted, and if it keeps going for a year i will feel like ive done pretty good. Any more and i'll be a happy bunny. Its never going far and is going to have an easy life, go the gas mpg doesnt bother me.

 

So, many thanks for the input.

 

Guess i need to find a Jeep forum!!

 

Take it easy.

[Fairtax4me]

Other issue was a CEL code 400. EGR fault. Looking over the engine i spotted a small (half inch) hose not connected, on the left side, on top of a small black box on the very end of the block. Something to do with pressure inside top of engine. There was a matching one attached properly on the other side. We put this back, reset the code and the CEL stayed out, but he confessed its a fickle thing and can spring back on. Is it likely this hose was at fault?

That's a breather hose. Won't affect EGR operation. The EGR valve or pipe may be clogged and causing the code.

[Ionlyhave3suubs]

With price haggling, depends on the seller if they get offended by a much lower offer. If the advertisement does not say "firm" by the price, most are willing to negotiate. If the car still needs a little work you have a bit of leverage for haggling.

 

With regard to the vibration/brake issue, changing out the rotors and converting to ceramic pads will not cost too much if you do the work yourself.

 

Replacing the radiator is not a difficult job on this car either, basically you drain the coolant, disconnect upper and lower hoses, disconnect trans cooler lines, unplug 2 fan wiring plugs take out 2 bolts that hold the upper brackets on and it comes out pretty easy. If you shop around you should be able to get an aftermarket radiator for under $150. I got my last radiator for $125 locally (it was for a 2000, different part#, but that is just an example).

 

Counting your time and parts needed, with car as is, I would say you have $500 worth of negotiation room from the asking price at least.

 

As far as the Jeep goes, it may be a good alternative if you intend to treat it as disposable. Not personally a fan of the grand cherokee.

 

If the Subaru is still in budget after expected and maybe a few yet to be discovered repairs, and you really like the car, you'll probably be happier with it.

[idosubaru]

vibration is easy - rotors are warped, very common. have them turned or replaced when you replace the pads.

 

EGR - easy. clean the EGR, replace the $7 filter on the passengers side, or worst case replace the EGR they're only $80 or so.

 

car has a 105,000 mile timing belt. might have done it with the headgasket and you can do it yourself but it's a $700 job at Subaru. $59 for the belt.

 

that sounds like a reasonable price. last 98 OBW i sold with similar mileage was for like $4,500 i think. price varies wildly and is also dependent on the area. good priced Subaru's sell quicker in Subaru saturated areas. factor in the work that needs done and pay that, sounds like a good plan to me.

 

if it wasn't overheated, that's key. the overheating does bad things to the oil and bearings.