Timing belt, what else?

[The FNG]

So my timing belt broke the other day while I was driving leaving me stranded (with a pissed off wife-says I never shoulda bought that piece of S***). Anyway, I haven't torn it apart yet, but I have a timing belt kit on its way. The kit includes left and right side belts, two tensioners, idler pulley, and I think two cam shaft seals (not sure). I was looking at some other threads and saw that replacing the oil pump gaskets and seals as well as the water pump seal were recommended while doing timing belts. Now, I have no idea why my belt broke, but I have heard of cam shaft seizure and oil pump seizure that could cause this. I will not have the luxury of pulling the motor and hope to not pull the radiator. Are there any other things I should look at doing while changing the timing belts, etc? Also, If my oil pump is seized, can I rebuild it or do I need a new one? How does replacing the seals make a difference in its operation? If the cams are seized, where do I go from there?

[idosubaru]

timing kits all the way.

 

belts break, your cams aren't seized. these older belts aren't that robust and it could be 10 or 20 years old. oil will degrade a new belt and cause it to snap in a matter of months if it's saturated.

 

oil pump will not be seized. they leak so it's best to reseal it while yo'ure in there. go through all that trouble of the timing stuff and then a year later the oil pumps gushing oil and you gottta take your new belts off again, that's annoying.

 

i'd replace any leaking seals. unfortuantely aftermarket seals are aren't as high success rate as Subaru seals, Subaru seals are much better. i've had aftermarket seals (fel-pro specifically) not fit right and leak on EA82's.

 

if you can find a cheap water pump, like rockauto.com or thepartsbin or locally i'd replace that too. that's annoying just because scraping the gasket is hard to get to and takes awhile but just patience, not a big deal really - it's only 5 more bolts once the timing belt is off. same thing as oil pump - if it fails soon you're pulling the timing belt off again to replace it. these older style water pumps have a higher failure rate than newer EJ water pumps.

 

i'd plan on removing the radiator, the few extra minutes and mess are worth it for access to the seals. if you're not doing any seals it's easier to get away with leaving it in, but still light. with seals, particularly the first time, pull the rad is a good idea.

 

otherwise there's absolutely no need to pull the motor for this job, it's actually really easy....rusted timing cover insets are about the trickiest part. just rip them out and don't reinstall the timing covers, a bunch of us run naked! or rip them out and zip tie them back together. the bolts rusting in the inserts thing is annoying on these.

[MilesFox]

throw the t belt covers away, if you want to do the oil pump at=d water pump later. DO remove the cam pulleys to remove the inner covers. You can do the cam seals by removing the cam retainer, do the seals on a bench, and re-install. Loosen the pulley bolts before removing the belts, and tighten after installing the belts.

 

Don't forget about the 360 deg crank rotation!

 

the valve cover seam represents the notch on the belt covers, when removed.

 

the dot on the passenger side cam will line up to the hard edge on the valve cover when you are at TDC for the ifn timing. You will have no chance of mis-aligning the ignition timing if you do not remove the disty.

[The FNG]

Ok, so I have the timing belt kit, oil pump kit, water pump, water pump gasket, and new oil filter. I think that should do it. And I assume there are procedures for component replacement and timing on the site.

[idosubaru]

we have the factory service manuals over at subaruxt.com for the 1988 EA82 which is the same for all those components.

 

it's really easy actually. just pull everything apart, read about how to line up the cams and crank and reinstall everything.

 

if you replace the cam seals make sure you replace the cam cap orings as well. actually i remove the cap, make removing and replacing the cam seals 100 times easier. and then you can replace the oring behind it. other than subaru i've only seen thepartsbin.com have the cam cap orings - they sell 'cam seal kits' - which just means one seal and one oring.

 

oil pump is 3 parts for an EA82 - mickey mouse gasket, shaft seal, and oring. i use a socket on the oil pump rotor to hold it while i remove the 12mm nut on the shaft - i believe i use a 1" or 32mm.

 

the seals are really annoying to remove, just limited access and a lot of times they're in there really tight.

 

torque the crank pulley bolt REALLY tight when you're done, they're prone to back off when folks don't reinstall them tight enough.

[man on the moon]

On the previous EA82 I had in my Loyale (that motor is now dead and gone, sadly) we didn't tighten down the tensioner pulley sufficiently and the car died whilst I was on my way to a job one day. That problem was fixed.

 

Then yesterday the belts on the replacement engine failed, or one of them did, at least. Took forever to diagnose because I was getting a freaking spark in the plug I pulled to see if I was getting spark (turns out the rotor stopped in perfect alignment with that wire, pssh...)...figured it out eventually.

 

Most of the faux nut plastic holder thingies in the back seem to be stripped, gonna be a b* to get the covers off! Just do what was said earlier and zip-tie the covers on if you decide to keep them. The timing is easy, though you'll want to replace the front cam seals if they are leaking. The cam sprocket is dummy proof iirc, you can't put it back on wrong (the bolts are aligned a-symmetrically, the sprocket can only go on one way).

[MilesFox]

Ok, so I have the timing belt kit, oil pump kit, water pump, water pump gasket, and new oil filter. I think that should do it. And I assume there are procedures for component replacement and timing on the site.

 

search 'Timing belt check and adjustment' on the usmb or google.

 

search "art of subaru maintenance" on u-tube and watch episodes #5-8

[The FNG]

Here is the kit I got on ebay. It comes with 1 crank seal and 1 cam seal. By the sounds of it, I need to order some more seals. I would need 2 cam seals and orings and 1 crank seal, right? do I need an oring for the crank?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400176384460&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3AOU%3AUS%3A1123

[MilesFox]

That is odd. Maybe the pic is just showing the different size of seals, although there should be 2 cam seals.

 

The crank has no o-rings.

 

you should have an o-ring for the cam seals, one for each side, about 2 inches in dia.

 

for the oil pump, you shouldhave a large o-ring that goes over the housing that sticks into the block, the mickey mouse seal for the face of the block, and a shaft seal behind the pulley on the oil pump.

[The FNG]

Have you ever had experience with an ITM kit or any of their parts? Since I bought the kit, I've been hearing horror stories of their belts breaking after only 300 miles or so. I am wondering if I could just use the main parts and get some better belts.

[MilesFox]

go for the gates brand. I used a used set of pull-off ITM rollers to replace some shagged oem ones.

 

go for the cheap set for now, install them, leave all the covers off, and by 3oo miles, go buy a set of Gates or Goodyear Gatorback, or even Continental timing belts and change them out in 20 minutes.

[The FNG]

Ya, nevermind. I went to rockauto and bought the dayco kit for $100 bucks. I don't even want to take a chance. If I'm going to do this, I may as well do it right. Although Dayco may not be as high a quality as gates, I think it is still good stuff. I think I will keep a set of gates belts on hand for backup though. I think the extra $40 is well worth making it home every night so i dont have to listen to the wife's bs about my pos car.

Edited April 25, 2011 by The FNG

[The FNG]

So I will be getting my new timing belt kit and camshaft seals tomorrow, already have the new water pump and gasket, oil pump seals, and oil filter:banana: So my question is now, what is the part in this picture? http://s748.photobucket.com/albums/xx125/nickmohrbacher/91%20Subaru/?action=view&current=IMAG0461.jpg#!oZZ2QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs748.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx125%2Fnickmohrbacher%2F91%2520Subaru%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DIMAG0462.jpg I think it is an oil pressure sensor, but I don't know if it is. I tried to look at this part at a junk yard, but all 4 cars were missing it. As you can see, there is no wire attached to the little copper tab. Is there supposed to be one? If so, exactly where is it supposed to be/ where does it go?

[MilesFox]

Do you have an analog gauge? The big piece the wire is connected to is for a analog gauge with oil pressure.

 

The smaller one would be for a digi dash, and dummy lite, where the other piece is not present.

 

If your car is analog, the big sender is the original piece, and the other unit should not be there, but be a plug instead.

[The FNG]

I'm not sure I understand you. My dash is analog. The thing I took a picture of I thought was an oil pressure sensor. It has no wire attached to it. The picture looks like there is, but that is just the wire for the electric fan. So I want to know how I am able to read oil pressure if I am not sending a signal through a wire.

[XCSP700]

if you follow the main engine wiring harness down from where it hooks to the water temp sensor on the gooseneck there should be one wire that will hook to the oil pressure sensor. I think its the last wire in that harness.

[asis]

search 'Timing belt check and adjustment' on the usmb or google.

 

search "art of subaru maintenance" on u-tube and watch episodes #5-8

Just watched your videos nicely done and thanks

 

I am in the process of doing belts on an 86' GL. Ole trusty (281k miles on car, engine replaced with 100k engine 30k? ago) simply quit doin 70 on I-5...my first suspicion was timing belts so I popped the disy cap with a spoon and checked for rotor rotation...sure nuff it didn't move....

 

So got it drug to the house and now have the outer covers pulled off. The drivers side belt is still in one piece but somewhat shredded. As with many of us I have little time and need this rig back in service and little money. I have a set of gates belts due in this afternoon. The inside looks to be mostly dry and free of any signs of oil. The pressure sending unit and or oil filter mounting seem to be leaking which the covers have kept from getting to the belts from my inspection.

 

My preference would be to leave the inner covers on and now just replace the belts and maybe put the outer covers (L and R only minus the center) back with only a couple bolts in each but only if the inner covers are dependent on the same bolts...?

 

I have not pulled the radiator and the A/c is non functional and been without a belt for some time and will not replace it. I used a punch in the flywheel to get the crank pulley bolt loose with little problems...can I trust to do the same to re torque it? What is the torque for that bolt? (Since I can't get an impact in there)

I will also be sure to check the tensioner pulleys but haven't yet, will replace if either are bad.

 

Any major fubars in this plan? Suggestions? Other things?

 

TIA

[asis]

When aligning the crank using the middle mark, not to be confused with TDC OR the middle timing mark :-\

 

BTW, would there be an easy way to fish a punch out of the flywheel cover/housng...?

[dennyt]

Get a magnet stick from the parts store.

 

For torquing the crank pulley, you can try putting the car in gear (higher gears better than lower gears), setting the parking brake & and torquing it until the clutch slips.

[The FNG]

Gonna get this done tomorrow: camshaft seals, crankshaft seal, idler pulley, timing belts, timing belt tensioners, v-belts, water pump, oil pump seals, remove/reinstall/flush radiator, change oil and filter, air filter. Estimated time: 4hrs, Reality: 6-8 hrs. haha, first time always takes longer, plus I have to clean everything. Thanks for the awesome videos Miles. I seriously would have been very lost without them.

[asis]

My first time wound up being three times :-\

First I dummied and used the timing marks to line the crank, second time I had the drivers side cam one tooth off...third time was a charm and much faster

I also found it easier to move the tensioners up and tighten them down to put the belts on, which was mentioned in my hanes manual.

[The FNG]

http://s748.photobucket.com/albums/xx125/nickmohrbacher/91%20Subaru/?action=view&current=IMAG0467.jpg

 

This is what caused my belt to break. The idler pulley bearing blew up. No Bueno:mad:. But it was definitely time to replace tensioners, shaft seals, o-rings, water pump, oil pump seals, etc. so, I guess it was imminent that something would happen. 230k and some original seals still.

[asis]

http://s748.photobucket.com/albums/xx125/nickmohrbacher/91%20Subaru/?action=view&current=IMAG0467.jpg

 

This is what caused my belt to break. The idler pulley bearing blew up. No Bueno:mad:. But it was definitely time to replace tensioners, shaft seals, o-rings, water pump, oil pump seals, etc. so, I guess it was imminent that something would happen. 230k and some original seals still.

 

That wood splain it lucy...

I just ate another belt too....once I get the beast home I will check that out....

 

Anything else that might eat a brand new gates belt....????

 

No squal or squeel or warning just kaput and stop....

 

FNG,btw were you able to find the replacement idler?

[The FNG]

ya, it cam in a kit from rockauto.com, a great site for parts. I bought the Dayco kit. It was $100 plus $12 for shipping, so it was a good deal. check the site though, best prices for quality parts, not the crap ITM stuff from ebay for $65. As far as your belt, I have heard the edge of the gear for the oil pump can cause belts to break, bad tensioners (spinning like a skateboard wheel), or maybe to were too loose or tensioners weren't tight enough.