Eeek! melted plastic in the intake. And Weber 32/36 carb install

[TajMan]

Pardon my dirty engine bay, my car is a work in progress but right now I need it to run first.

 

The first picture is the scary one!

I go to start installing the Weber carb I got in the mail today, and I found out one reason my car had been running like crap lately and it also reminded me I had smelled melted plastic before at least once.

Not cool brah, not cool.

I don't know how that black plastic thing relating to emissions melted, but something melted it. Possible it was an exhaust leak from where the pipe connects to that cylinder head which maybe got worse recently?

plastic down in this area:

Anyway I had pieces of melted plastic IN the carburetor, deff. saw some of that go through my engine, yeesh.

 

Trying to install the Weber carb now, I could use any assistance offered.

I got this Brat Weber carb kit from a fellow online in Washington state, he had used it on his car for about 6 months.

 

I deleted my charcoal canister, and I'm trying to remove as much emissions B.S. as possible now.

I haven't found any instruction yet, right now I can just use common sense and cap off unused lines.

 

What are these 2 things with electronic connections on the intake manifold?

 

 

There are 3 wires going to the stock carb. I only need one to go on the automatic choke of this Weber carb. Wire on the front of the stock carb is automatic choke? (this wire easily gets kinked and breaks off on some stock carbs I've seen)

Other unused wires can be cut and left hanging?

 

this can be eliminated?:

(I'm still not sure what I'd need to do to block off exhaust line)

 

I've circled this thing, candidate for elimination?:

 

weber carb:

 

 

No fuel return line on weber carb? Just plug off my return line on my chassis?

Edited April 27, 2011 by TajMan

[TajMan]

So, those 2 electric solenoids on the drivers side arm of the intake manifold- one of them directly interferes with the installation of the weber carb.

What is supposed to be done with its removal? Metal block-off plate where it used to exist on the intake manifold?

 

I still need to verify for sure, which wire is the automatic choke wire, and which of the two tubes coming up at the front of the carb near the distributor go to the vacuum advance.

 

I now see what would have to be plugged up in the exhaust to completely delete the EGR tube and related components...

[TajMan]

Duh, those things on intake manifold are just mounted to intake with brackets, nothing exposed to 'block off'.

 

Well I got my car running, with a WHOLE lot of capped-off hoses. Maybe I will find more efficient ways to run some things later.

 

I was having some problems with a high-idle, but I've fixed that a bit, I'll tell you tomorrow how I end up.

 

 

 

This is like driving a TOTALLY different car than I used to have, its really phenomenal. Easy pedal effort now, quick throttle response.

 

I like where this is headed. The exhaust is going to be another drastic change.

 

So, no more anti-dieseling solenoid.

Last time I shut my car off, it wanted to diesel for a sec.

What is the fix, or do people just live with this?

Edited April 28, 2011 by TajMan

[GeneralDisorder]

When the Weber's are setup correctly and the timing is right, etc they will not diesel.

 

The plastic bit that melted is a silencer for the Air Injection System. You need to block the AIS valve's inlet pipe with a quarter inserted into the valve body or weld up the pipe coming from the spacer under the head. The reed inside the valve has broken as is letting raw exhaust though into your engine bay - which is neither healthy nor safe.

 

GD

[SnowRat]

If you have questions give me a call I just did this swap with full emissions removal. 9079783157 ben

[TajMan]

I just plugged up tons of stuff, but I think I figured it out myself for the most part.

 

 

I plugged up that thing from the air injection system that was funneling exhaust into my engine bay (mostly plugged).

I'm building a new exhaust soon, and I'll be able to completely eliminate that line coming from exhaust.

 

 

 

 

 

ONLY PROBLEM I'M HAVING WITH WEBER CARB IS WITH IDLE

 

It seems to run awesome in all instances, except idle.

I have my accelerator cable loose, its not pulling on the throttle when it shouldn't.

 

With the carb warmed up, it usually wants to idle high (2K-3K rpm), but sometimes it settles into idling low (500rpm) until you bump the accelerator.

 

Messing with the idle speed screw doesn't fix.

If idling high, unscrewing the screw will make the engine idle no lower than 1,200rpm.

If idling low at 500rpm, yes screwing in the screw will get the idle up to where it should be, but then it will just be set too high in a minute..

 

 

With engine completely cold, fast idle adjustment seems to be correct.

Stab the throttle once, then start engine, then wait 10 seconds.. idle will be between 2K-2.5Krpm like it should.

[ferox]

I don't see a throttle return spring on your install. Do you have one installed now?

[opus]

Loosen the cable, see if that helps.

[TajMan]

I told you throttle cable is loose, that's not the problem.

 

 

There is one weak return spring on the throttle, here I'll take a pic tomorrow morning.

That is one of the characteristics of the engine now though, when revs are up they fall again slowly- regardless of being completely off the throttle and coasting in neutral.

 

 

Can intake vacuum leaks cause these idle problems?

[ferox]

I told you throttle cable is loose, that's not the problem.

 

There is one weak return spring on the throttle

 

The throttle cable depresses easily because you don't have a proper throttle return spring to push/pull against. You are using the return spring in your accelerator pedal as the return spring instead, and it doesn't pull the throttle off quickly or consistently. Use the spring off the Hitachi carb that you replaced.

[TajMan]

here is the pic

 

I have the spring off the hitachi carb I've been trying to use, but I can't seem to find good places to attach it to..

[TajMan]

I got a return spring working here:

..and while that seems to have the carb working more normal in ways, my idle is still wack.

I MIGHT have that figured out

Isn't there supposed to be a spring behind this idle screw to keep it from vibrating and changing?

Mine was just riding in there loose, vibrations must have been making it move.

[naru]

If you are referring to the empty hole beside the choke coil mount,then no spring.

 

That is where the idle jet and holder goes.It should have an o ring on it.

There is one on the other side too.

O ring will act like a spring.

 

Vacuum leaks here will definitely cause problems.

[ferox]

Try GD's setup. Notice the Hitachi return spring and throttle lever. His return spring has more tension on it at rest.

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=108693&highlight=weber+throttle

Edited April 29, 2011 by ferox

[TajMan]

My return spring works, I've got that sorted.

 

 

How is the O-ring supposed to work as a spring, if you have to back off the screw (further counter-clockwise) to lower idle.. and with the idle where it needs to be- the screw is totally loose!

 

 

 

I suppose my next step is get some carb cleaner and try to identify possible air leaks.

[naru]

My return spring works, I've got that sorted.

 

 

How is the O-ring supposed to work as a spring, if you have to back off the screw (further counter-clockwise) to lower idle.. and with the idle where it needs to be- the screw is totally loose!

 

 

 

I suppose my next step is get some carb cleaner and try to identify possible air leaks.

 

If you are referring to the empty hole beside the choke coil mount,that is not an adjustment.Tighten the jet holder and forget.

Jet and holder assembly should look like this http://tekenaar.opelgt.com/Misc/dfo/dfojets/DFOidlejetcomparetxt.JPG

 

Idle mixture adjustment is at the base of the carb.

Idle speed adjustment is near the throttle lever.

 

This should help.http://www.carburetion.com/diags/3236DGVDiaginfo.asp

Edited April 29, 2011 by naru

[TajMan]

Sorry for my ignorance, I feel kind of stupid.

Carb pictures and diagrams I have aren't 100% clear.

 

 

 

Now, for my problem. My idle speed adjustment screw is backed off, not touching bracket at any time. Return spring is holding the throttle 100% closed.

My throttle plates must still be open enough, that I idle at 2,000rpm regular.

 

How do I go about adjusting the throttle plates so they are slightly more closed when at a rest position?

After I fix that, then the idle speed adjustment can help fine-tune, then I can tune in the idle mixture screw..

[naru]

Not to worry.We all get it wrong now and then.

 

I would disconnect the throttle cable (make sure return spring remains on the carb) after warming the engine to see if the throttle plate(s) still hangs up.Work the throttle by hand.

 

If so,I`d remove the carb to examine position of BOTH throttle plates and condition of the linkage.Check for play in the throttle shafts while you`re at it.

[TajMan]

I had the carb off again this morning.

Trying to adjust the throttle plates more closed at rest, couldn't figure anything.

Built bracket for better return-spring mounting.

 

 

Took the car in for emissions testing. FAILED, CO% 4.2 when the max allowed is 1.2

(was reading around 4.2 for the idle and the 2500rpm test)

 

 

Could this failure be related to running rich, at both of those RPM points? Weber carb jetting?

(the guy even had to fool the computer to have a lower reading when the car was SUPPOSED to be idling 800-1200rpm but was actually idling at 1500rpm)

 

My cat is about 10-12" further back in my exhaust system than the stock cat was. Could this failure be because my cat wasn't hot enough?

[GeneralDisorder]

There is a fast-idle cam associated with the choke - if the choke is not fully warmed before attempting to set the idle you will not get anywhere because the fast idle cam will prevent the throttle plate from closing completely. Could also be why it's so rich. When running rich the exhaust temps drop and in association with a cat that is farther back it could lead to inneficient catalyst action..... but it's hard to say since your carb is setup all wrong.

 

GD

[TajMan]

I thought I was set up right..

 

and I thought these weber carb kits were set up to run right on this engine or pretty damn close to correct

Edited May 19, 2011 by TajMan

[TajMan]

How does the jetting in the carb for an '85 EA-82 engine differ? Would this carb maybe let me pass emissions easier?(I can get it for free)

[GeneralDisorder]

They dont jet them any different. All 32/36 carbs, regardless of application, come with "base" jetting - 140/140 mains, 170/160 air correctors, and 50/50 idle jets. Typically this jetting is fine - usually EA82's will want a 60 or 65 primary idle jet but that is all I change. I have put a wideband O2 on several of them and the base jetting is excelent. No reason it shouldn't pass emissions.

 

By setup I mean your adjustments - idle speed/mixture, choke setting, and ignition timing. I'm not talking about jetting.

 

GD

Edited May 19, 2011 by GeneralDisorder

[TajMan]

I was referring to the stock Hitachi or whatever carbs.

 

I was pulling an '85 EA82 carb from a junk yard Loyale, I was wondering about passing emissions on my Brat EA81.

 

 

HOWEVER, yesterday a couple old car guys helped me a little.

Between some adjustment screws I hadn't seen/found before, and using a correct wire to make my automatic choke work, my 32/36 Brat seems to be running much better! Idling where it should be, and idle mixture close. I also installed a new PCV valve, and plumbed hoses from valve covers to PCV so that I'm not venting into open atmosphere anymore.

 

Between everything adjusted, and if I make sure my car is nice and hot, I think I have a much better chance of passing emissions now, I'll try today.

 

Oh yeah, I also fixed bad exhaust leak coming off both cylinder heads because of my temporary gaskets I had planned on replacing. That issue popped up a couple days ago, and those exhaust leaks right off the heads KILL engine performance.

 

WHAT does ECS stand for? That light comes on and off randomly, at the bottom of stock TACH.

[GeneralDisorder]

ECS stands for emissions control system. Means you had a computer controlled Hitachi before you swapped to the Weber. The computer is mad that it doesn't see it's duty solenoids, etc.

 

I pretty much figured you didn't have power to the choke. That's not uncommon with installations where people aren't familair with carbs. Thus the high idle and rich mixture.

 

GD