Looking for Subaru #1 ~ Advice please

[plaidfro]

1. I know 'search' is going to be my best friend. Right now scouring through posts New Gen Subaru posts is looking a bit like learning chinese. I won't give up though, I hope to be speaking the same language soon.

 

2. My mom has owned a 99 Forester and an 05 Outback. Both have been solid cars. So I am quite sold on picking a Forester or an Outback up. Years I should be looking for? I am looking to spend no more than $6,000, but can afford to spend more than $3,000.

 

3. I have read about the EJ22 vs. the EJ25 motors... the EJ22 seems more like what I would prefer with a 5 Spd. Any thoughts for going the most hassle-free route? I want to be looking for the most ideal engine/tranny combo that I can find for the vehicle. I don't want to buy something that people say "well had you bought the XXXXXX engine, or the XXXXXX model, or the next year model you wouldnt have that problem".

 

4. This car would be used for 2 things: 1. my daily commute to work; 40 miles one way on the Interstate = 70mph. 2. I go into the backcountry in Utah quite often and would love a fuel friendly car, with good clearance, 4WD or AWD that can carry all my climbing/canyoneering gear to the trailheads. Many of the dirt roads I am talking about I have driven a Honda Civic on but have had to drive very slow and be very delicate in many areas due to the low clearance. So its not hardcore rockcrawling. So a Subaru would probably fit the bill perfectly. I have read about 2"-3" lift options in the springs which allows for adding slightly larger tire sizes which seems to be ideal for what I am looking for.

 

5. I live in Utah and checking the KSL.com classifieds for 98'-'05 Foresters & Outbacks has brought up about 25 options for 5 Spds under $9000 with the average prices around 5000-6000. I love a good deal so what could I expect the prices be for these cars? What maintenance/overhauls should I be looking for in cars with 100k+ miles. I know that things like a timing belt, and water pump, CV axles. How bout the Head Gaskets and any other critical items that I may not know about?

 

5. Giving me a few options that you would choose to look for that meets my criteria about would help. For example ( I would look for an 98 - 03 Foresters with 'this' engine, 'this' package, 5spd, with 'these' items replaced, expect it to be about 'this' price) I hope it doesnt sound like holding my hand through this I just know that car owners with experience and knowledge know which models, years, and package options are proven and would be the one that they would choose over another vehicle.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this and help me make the best decision on my first Subaru.

[idosubaru]

foresters never came with the EJ22 and Legacys in the newer range are almost non-existant as well with the EJ22, except for some 99 base model legacy's.

 

You like a good deal? Wait for a 98 Forester or 97-99 OBW/Legacy with a blown motor (EJ25) and do an EJ22 swap.

 

you can do an EJ22 swap on 99+ Foresters or 00+ Legacy/OBW's too but that's a later Phase EJ22 for that swap and they're harder to find.

 

you can get blown motor subaru's for $500-$2,000 rather easily. put $1,000 or $2,000 into a motor swap (including new timing belts, water pump, oil pump reseal etc) and you can end up with an inexpensive car capable of another inexpensive 100,000 miles. takes a little effort but it's worth it if you like high value and low price.

 

The 99+ Foresters/00+ Legacy/OBW's EJ25's are nicer than the earlier EJ25's in terms of headgasket and lower end issues.

 

Fuel efficiency - that depends on the person. If you're comparing it to other cars, Subaru's are not that impressive with gas mileage. But if you realize you're getting a higher stance, ground clearance, roof rock utilitarian 4WD vehicle that's great in the snow....the gas mileage can be really good. If none of that is a need, then you likely won't enjoy the gas mileage figures you get.

Edited April 28, 2011 by grossgary

[idosubaru]

this may be a rare 99 legacy with an EJ22 and manual:

http://stgeorge.craigslist.org/cto/2284742338.html

 

here's a manual trans OBW in utah with the headgaskets already replaced. a good deal but you want to make sure Subaru headgaskets were used and ideally it wasn't overheated terribly before the gaskets were replaced. abusive overheating is less likely on newer EJ25's like this one.

http://logan.craigslist.org/cto/2288254589.html

 

if you don't mind higher miles you could end up with the H6 (thought none come with a manual trans):

http://provo.craigslist.org/cto/2265030081.html

fantastic motors, one of Subaru's best in recent years. i opted for the H6 for this reason, great motor.

Edited April 28, 2011 by grossgary

[plaidfro]

You like a good deal? Wait for a 98 Forester or 97-99 OBW/Legacy with a blown motor (EJ25) and do an EJ22 swap.

I may have a good local Subaru Mechanic I will run this by him an see what his cost estimates would be.

 

you can do an EJ22 swap on 99+ Foresters or 00+ Legacy/OBW's too but that's a later Phase EJ22 for that swap and they're harder to find.

aside from the engine are there any significant advantages when looking at the newer body styles?

 

you can get blown motor subaru's for $500-$2,000 rather easily. put $1,000 or $2,000 into a motor swap (including new timing belts, water pump, oil pump reseal etc) and you can end up with an inexpensive car capable of another inexpensive 100,000 miles. takes a little effort but it's worth it if you like high value and low price.

Buying a Subaru in great shape and rebuilding the motor sounds like a good plan vs. buying a cheap subaru that the engine may be on its last leg.

 

The 99+ Foresters/00+ Legacy/OBW's EJ25's are nicer than the earlier EJ25's in terms of headgasket and lower end issues.

Good to know

 

Fuel efficiency - that depends on the person. If you're comparing it to other cars, Subaru's are not that impressive with gas mileage. But if you realize you're getting a higher stance, ground clearance, roof rock utilitarian 4WD vehicle that's great in the snow....the gas mileage can be really good. If none of that is a need, then you likely won't enjoy the gas mileage figures you get.

 

Right now I am driving a 1994 Jeep Wrangler that is lifted about 6.5" and has 35" tires. Axles are geared at 4.56 and has ARB lockers.... so its not an ideal commuter vehicle. I agree the MPG is not super sweet (i.e. 30 MPG+), but it certainly decent especially as you noted I get a vehicle with better ground clearance, 4WD, and is known for good snow driving (big plus in Utah winters)

 

Thanks for the advice.

[idosubaru]

aside from the engine are there any significant advantages when looking at the newer body styles?

no most advantages come with just getting the nicer models. some of the lower end models still have rear drum brakes and crank window handles, archaic stuff like that and sometimes cheap looking and feeling interior. the newer/nice models have more options, better stereo's, heathed leather, cold weather packages, etc. just depends what you're looking for.

 

subaru's don't have a lot of age related wear items so the newer ones aren't much of an advantage in those terms - struts are probably one glaring exception, those often need replaced with age.

 

the newer ones are a tad bit bigger - like an inch or two.

cars101.com is a great Subaru only resource for comparing models/years/changes when deciding on a purchase. go compare the 1996-1999 Legacy's to the 2000-2004 legacys and see what changes for instance.

 

test drive a few and see what you like.

[plaidfro]

if you don't mind higher miles you could end up with the H6 (thought none come with a manual trans):

http://provo.craigslist.org/cto/2265030081.html

fantastic motors, one of Subaru's best in recent years. i opted for the H6 for this reason, great motor.

 

I work here in Orem so I will take a look at this one. I will have to ask around about the 6-cyl. I have a 2000 Passat VW with a 6-cyl and it has been a good motor which I have been pleased with its on-road performance. But that car overall has been quite costly to maintain.

 

I honestly prefer a manual over an auto, just past experience with repair bills between the two... but I would easily get an auto if the car was a great car with a great engine.

[MilesFox]

consider a legacy 1990-1996, or an impreza thru 99. Cheap cars, can be had for 1500 bucks or so, rock solid engines, just find one that is not rusty.

 

A lot of newer model parts can be retrofitted to the older models.

 

just so you know, the forester is based on an impreza. compared to a legacy, it is a smaller car with bigger wheels, and a taller roof.

 

An impreza outback sport wagon would be the next best thing to a forester, if you do not want to go the route of swapping more reliable engines.

[Fairtax4me]

Forester is going to eat up gas on the highway running well over 3000 rpm at 70 mph. The final drive gearing isn't conducive to fuel mileage at high speeds. But it has better ground clearance and better gearing for off road use than the outback.

 

There are two different "Outback" models that often mistakenly get lumped into the same category.

The Legacy Outback, and the Impreza Outback Sport. There is a big size difference between the two. The Legacy being the larger of the two. The under pinnings are mostly the same. But if it's room you need, be sure to pay attention to the model name, not just the "Outback" badge on the back of the car.

[MilesFox]

You can simply order new struts for a forester and replace the ones in any impreza to have a little wagon with the ground clearance of a forester.

 

really, if you do your homework, you can pick the right base and build to suit. Subarus are like legos, and are backwards compatible over a span of 20 years of cars.

[plaidfro]

There are two different "Outback" models that often mistakenly get lumped into the same category.

The Legacy Outback, and the Impreza Outback Sport. There is a big size difference between the two. The Legacy being the larger of the two. The under pinnings are mostly the same. But if it's room you need, be sure to pay attention to the model name, not just the "Outback" badge on the back of the car.

 

I am 6'3" and 225lbs... so I don't think that I have sat in a Subaru that has felt roomy for my size. I have seen the model differences between the Legacy Outback, and the Impreza Outback Sport. I think I would be a little more comfortable the Legacy model

[idosubaru]

I work here in Orem so I will take a look at this one. I will have to ask around about the 6-cyl. I have a 2000 Passat VW with a 6-cyl and it has been a good motor

in general number of cylinders does not indicate anything about reliability, there's plenty of bad or average 6 cylinder motors, but you probably know that.

 

this 6 cylinder is great for reliability and relatively inexpensive. there's no timing belt to replace and the chain and water pump are supposed to last the life of the vehicle. this motor has had very few problem areas across the many subaru forums and that is why i bought one. not good for gas mileage but i like having a good chance at a cheap 300,000 miles reliably. i drive to maine, florida, south carolina, colorado, georgia, new orleans......

 

if a sensor failed, it would be no doubt very expensive new from the dealer. but given the very low rate of sensor failures, used is a perfectly acceptable option and i drive a lot.

 

the bearings in the tensioner and idler for the drive belts go bad very often but costs a couple dollars and 30 minutes to replace. listen for whining when reving/down************ing as an indicator of a failed timing chain tensioner. car typically drives fine in this condition. 01-04 H6's can have a twitchy TPS (throttle position sensor) which gives a check engine light or engine/transmission hesitation. those are the few issues that are sometimes seen on these to look out for when test driving.

 

i just replace those bearings as preventative maintenance, it's quick and easy.

 

in my limited VW experience they are costly to maintain.

 

I honestly prefer a manual over an auto, just past experience with repair bills between the two... but I would easily get an auto if the car was a great car with a great engine.

recent trends actually suggest auto's can be cheaper to maintain than manuals, they are more robust than they used to be. manuals often require clutch jobs - a big job at close to $1,000 usually, where as automatics are increasingly lasting the life of the vehicle.

 

of course mileage and maintenance history matters the most in my opinion. i'd feel much more confident of a one owner well maintained vehicle than a 3 owner job.

[plaidfro]

Searching around for value it looks like a good winning combination on a 90's Subaru is to drop a '96 EJ22 into a 97-99 OBW/Legacy body. So the advice to find a blown motor and do the EJ22 Swap is intriguing. I will talk with my local independent Subaru mechanic about what is involved: cost and time.

 

For my criteria the other side seems to be finding a 2001+ Forester or a 2000+ Legacy Outback with the 2.5 or 3.0, auto or manual. I have searched around looking for the gearing differences between the Outbacks and Forester, and haven't found any info yet. I like that there are options to lifitng the suspension on the Legacy Outback.

 

I will keep researching and reading your replies. Thanks for helping me out, I would hope to be able to get something in the works within the next week.