lesstutrey Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) I drive a 2002 OBW VDC. I hase a noise. It only happens when i have my steering maxed out to the RIGHT direction. Not to the left, and it happens more in forward than reverse, but happens in both. Thought, hey, i lifted my ride 2" it must be a half axle in the front going out. I replaced both of them, along with my brakes that wore out in a year Drove around didn't make the noise. Problem fixed? No, drove to my girls placed and pulled into a parking space at LOW speed, like 5mph or under, and there is this squeak again. It's not constant like it would be if it were rub, it happens like once per wheel revolution. On the right side only as well. No noise on the left. I have two theories now that it's NOT the half axle (ugh.... waste of money there, and that pin is a SOB, had to have one remade because it broke coming out) though both of them were starting to get chewed up on the male ends. Theory 1. Power steering isn't holding up so the tire's slipping a little Theory 2. Wheel bearing is going on that side so it's wobbling when i turn, and when i go slow it shows up. Any other theories, and or input on my situation.... Edited May 13, 2011 by lesstutrey Resolved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I've got two theories for you, First: My pop had a similar occurrence on his '00 Legacy wagon. A noise he described as a rubbing/squeaking sound. Did the brakes, checked the axles. After the brake job he thought it went away but it didn't. He finally gave up and took it to a shop to have them take a look. They saw nothing out of the ordinary except for a worn tie-rod end (had a good amount of play in it) which they replaced. Noise was gone. The theory is that the tie-rod end was completely dry of grease and was making the noise only under certain stress conditions. Second: This doesn't happen much anymore with the improvements in tire technology over the years, but tires can make a squeaking sound when the plys have separated from each other inside the tire. There is no visual clue of this on the outside and you can't tell by the way the car drives. The noise isn't always loud, it can be drowned out by regular road noise at speed. If this is the case it can lead to blowout if not replaced, so if your car is close to needing new tires anyway you might consider it. To check the first theory, unlock the steering (but don't turn the car on) and have somebody move the wheel back and forth while you're under that car and see if any of the steering components behave out of the ordinary. Do this while the car is on the ground, you want all the components to be under load so you can see if there is excessive play. Check for torn boots on all the ball joints, tie-rod ends etc (basically check anything that has a rubber boot.) You might do some searching on checking steering/suspension components as this is not my strong suit. To check the second theory, rotate your tires. Put the fronts in back and see if the noise moves along with the rotation. As for your theories, I'm no expert on the Subaru power steering setup so I can't really advise there except to say that I can't remember ever reading a thread about power steering trouble in a car as new as yours so take that for what it's worth. I doubt it's the wheel bearing, I've never heard of one that would make an audible noise that loud at 5mph or under but not at speed. Good luck! Will- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I drive a 2002 OBW VDC.I hase a noise. It only happens when i have my steering maxed out to the RIGHT direction. Not to the left, and it happens more in forward than reverse, but happens in both. Thought, hey, i lifted my ride 2" it must be a half axle in the front going out. I replaced both of them, along with my brakes that wore out in a year Drove around didn't make the noise. Problem fixed? No, drove to my girls placed and pulled into a parking space at LOW speed, like 5mph or under, and there is this squeak again. It's not constant like it would be if it were rub, it happens like once per wheel revolution. On the right side only as well. No noise on the left. I have two theories now that it's NOT the half axle (ugh.... waste of money there, and that pin is a SOB, had to have one remade because it broke coming out) though both of them were starting to get chewed up on the male ends. Theory 1. Power steering isn't holding up so the tire's slipping a little Theory 2. Wheel bearing is going on that side so it's wobbling when i turn, and when i go slow it shows up. Any other theories, and or input on my situation.... Check your brakes again, it could be a rubbing backing plate. Spray rubber parts with wd 40 and see if the noise goes away to rule out bushings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesstutrey Posted April 30, 2011 Author Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) The sound was actually much more constant, so my mechanics current thought is wheel bearings. I was doing slow 360s in a parking lot to make the noise for my mechanic and that was his thought, but i dunno. The exact though was, it's getting play because of the bad bearing, so the brake pad is rubbing and i just don't really hear it at road noise/it's not really doing it then because there isn't the lateral force on the bearing. Looking into getting bearings looks like a PITA, since i can't find front hub assemblies, just bearings and hubs. Car has had the wheel played with and looked at, and put up on a lift, and done on the ground as well. Only right turns, only FULLY to the right, eg the power steering needs to be active. The tires have been rotated a few times, i'm positive it is not them, they're MVX4s and you can still see the nipples on the fronts and backs, after at least 10k miles (car came with them 11k miles ago). I don't believe it's the tire. It's a bearing or bushing. Bearings tend to poop out at 80k miles and my car is at just under 83k. I hate guess work like this, but this is the part of a car where guessing seems to be the only way to find out. Strange symptom. I got my brakes done while i had the shafts done because they needed it. Except, my brakes were only a year old. Maybe it's just crap quality from midas (i think i only had rears replaced) but i should get more than 10k miles out of any set of brakes. So.. something ain't right with my rears either. 300-400 worth of hubs, are you in store? God... this is freaking annoying... and costly, i would rather be buying sway bars and skid plates. I could have gotten that for what my brake (rotors and pads all around) and half axle (just the fronts) job cost me.. My car was horribly out of alignment for a good part of that year, but that should just mess up my tires, not brakes... right? Edited April 30, 2011 by lesstutrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 could be wheel bearings but it could still be a ball joint or tie rod or bushing too. i think you have just as good of a chance as the wheel bearing fixing this as you do of replacing the wheel bearing and still having the noise. i have seen failing wheel bearings exhibit no noise at all, so that you can't hear it while driving straight doesn't surprise me. 10,000 is low for brakes. i replaced the 02 OBW H6 VDC I have at 137,000 and they are just now needing replaced at 177,000 - so 40,000 miles. i got pads that came with all new clips/hardware. when doing a brake job the clips should be replaced or thoroughly cleaned or the pads don't slide smoothly and ride on the rotors longer than necessary when the brakes are let off. and the caliper slides need greased. mechanics skip these steps all the time. you could have also had the rotors turned rather than replacing all 4. the original subaru rotors are higher quality materials than most aftermarkets anyway and it would have been cheaper. bearings don't tend to go out at 80,000 - they are mostly random and go out whenever they want too. my 177,000 mile OBW has never had bearings replaced. when doing axle work, the bearings are exposed as well as the seal. i've seen some folks that replace this wheel seal every time the axle comes out (i never have) to keep the seal fresh and grease in the bearing and dirt from getting into the bearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesstutrey Posted April 30, 2011 Author Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) could be wheel bearings but it could still be a ball joint or tie rod or bushing too. i think you have just as good of a chance as the wheel bearing fixing this as you do of replacing the wheel bearing and still having the noise. i have seen failing wheel bearings exhibit no noise at all, so that you can't hear it while driving straight doesn't surprise me. 10,000 is low for brakes. i replaced the 02 OBW H6 VDC I have at 137,000 and they are just now needing replaced at 177,000 - so 40,000 miles. i got pads that came with all new clips/hardware. when doing a brake job the clips should be replaced or thoroughly cleaned or the pads don't slide smoothly and ride on the rotors longer than necessary when the brakes are let off. and the caliper slides need greased. mechanics skip these steps all the time. you could have also had the rotors turned rather than replacing all 4. the original subaru rotors are higher quality materials than most aftermarkets anyway and it would have been cheaper. bearings don't tend to go out at 80,000 - they are mostly random and go out whenever they want too. my 177,000 mile OBW has never had bearings replaced. when doing axle work, the bearings are exposed as well as the seal. i've seen some folks that replace this wheel seal every time the axle comes out (i never have) to keep the seal fresh and grease in the bearing and dirt from getting into the bearing. Perhaps the guys at midas (ugh, where the brakes were done first time) did just turn them, and they just didn't hold up, or they just did a crap job, or ya know, driving around on the gravel around here (and in the salt belt none the less) at 70mph and vdc going off all winter, heck if i knew. They have duracraft gold-lines on them now, so maybe they'll stand up. It is raining today, so i'm not doing anything aside from realizing that one of the springs on the liftgate handle is gone.. and i dunno where i'm gonna get one because the handle will not close. I can find the handle and back plate online.. but it doesn't say if it comes with springs. I just need the right side handle spring... and right side clip for the rear lights... edit: ok and now realizing there isn't a second spring and the lubing worked for the handle.. the noise.. not trying today. Edited April 30, 2011 by lesstutrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesstutrey Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 Well.. look at crap a little because the rain i thought was coming never came. The only thing i can visibly see wrong is at the sway links on the right side, but i don't know if it is because i'm parked at a slight incline but at the top of the links i see two different things. (right side is sitting a little lower than left due to curve of driveway) On the left side i see a sway link that seems to be fitted in better, and the sway bar is pretty much exactly flush where they mount. The clamp up top looks like it has been there for 9 years, the dirt is nice and evenly placed on the sides, it doesn't look like it has moved, ever. On the right side i see a link that seems looser, and the bar, where it connects to the link is bent so that there is a slight gap forming at the top of the bar. Just a little bit, but the top of the bar's connection is definitely bent toward the center of the car. The clamp also looks like it moved a little in recent history, the paint is disturbed and so is the dirt. My tie rod seems tight... though old and rusty. The sway bar has all those rubber bushings in that part of the linkage so that seemed to be the most logical thing i can VISIBLY see. New brakes have nice new clips and all that jazz, i trust the guys who did these brakes way more than midas. I just read about half shafts going so we did half shafts, and found out brakes had crapped out. It's a childhood friend charging me 15$ less an hour labor than to the general public so i'm pretty damn certain he's not screwing with me. I was the one who was gun ho on the shafts, the other mechanic, who is a GM truck guy, and has done a lot of truck lifts, and knows the axle woes associated with that agreed that it was a good hunch.. so we went that route. Like i say, oh well. I'd post some pics of this right now, but all i have is crap camera phone shots taken at 11pm, i'll get some day ones and post that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Sure it's not just a tire rubbing on the plastic wheel well liner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesstutrey Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 I've had people look at it with steering maxed out, no rub then, and no signs of any rub on the tire either. No marks. The sound doesn't sound like ball joints or wheel bearings, or strut mounts, there are no symptoms of any of that in the driving either, it drives fine, doesn't make noise EXCEPT when i'm turning right, maxed turn, SLOW. If i speed up to like 5mph doing 360 turns the noise goes away, as i slow down, there it is. It happens when i pull in to parking spaces and in parking lots pretty much exclusively,here i'm going to be driving very slow. I'ma have them put it up on the lift and shake down to try to figure out what it is, but might end up just saying dunno, and not spend any more money on repairs. Maybe control arm bushings? i dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Maybe spray some silicone on the outer axle boot and see if it goes away. Control arm bushings generally make noise during articulation, such as when going over speed bumps. Or they may clunk when driving or accelerating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Lets see... NEVER EVER EVER go to a Midas for anything ...same for a chain transmission shop of any kind. 10,000 miles on brakes can be your driving habits, where you live, stuck or sticking calipers, collased brake line. A sticking barke rotor can make this noise. everything on that front end flexes a tiny bit in turns (really tiny) or else things would break. Making a turn can be enough flex to make something make noise. Is there a ally or parking garage you can drive in to hear if there is any noise at other times that you can not hear. When you drove in a circle was there any grabing in the drivetrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesstutrey Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Lets see... NEVER EVER EVER go to a Midas for anything ...same for a chain transmission shop of any kind. 10,000 miles on brakes can be your driving habits, where you live, stuck or sticking calipers, collased brake line. A sticking barke rotor can make this noise. everything on that front end flexes a tiny bit in turns (really tiny) or else things would break. Making a turn can be enough flex to make something make noise. Is there a ally or parking garage you can drive in to hear if there is any noise at other times that you can not hear. When you drove in a circle was there any grabing in the drivetrain. Yeah, i told my father to have the oil changed, he went to midas due to a coupon, they told him they needed to do the back pads. When my friends shop did the brake job they found nothing wrong with anything but the rotors and pads, new clips and brake grease and all that jazz. My friend, who actually owns the shop and had the other mechanic do the work, is gonna give it a shake down personally on his rack in the next few days. He's pretty sure it never went up on the rack for testing of ball joint etc. I'm more friends with the owner, not so much the other mechanic (we all grew up on the same block though) We'll get to the heart of it. I think that in the little fender bender i was involved with in the middle of January might have bent the antisway.. which gives me an excuse to buy a ralitek set... Links seems perfect, it's just.. the sway bar should be mounted squarely on both links, not bent on one side where the bar mounts to the link the top has a gap between the link and connecting point on the bar, and i could see it potentially slipping around on the bushing when i make the turn, making the noise.. or it makes brakes rub, whatever, causes front end slack. Also the coating on the right side has rubbed off around the mounting bolt, leading me to believe there is slack there even more and the sway is indeed bent.. Drivetrain was smooth as butter while doing turns, heck, the car doesn't get a feeling from this noise. I just remembered something though. When i first start up my car and back out the driveway my brakes kinda crunch (i have a very steep slope at the end of the driveway, the level driveway is about 2-3' higher than the road) but if i pump em first, i don't get crunch, like the couple presses of the brake pedal makes the lines open up/fill up all the way.. but it's not like i feel like the brakes are weaker when i'm backing up like this. It just leads me to think maybe it could be something with the lines. My car makes another noise, an intermittent squeak, but it's from something on the belts, and goes away once it warms up (the weather or the car).. so it's gone. Oh, and another thing i was just unsure on. When i start up my car sometimes that sucker idles up to like 1800rpm and takes about a minute to drop down to a normal 800-1200rpm range. I think it's just the thermostat running it harder until heating (and engine cooling) system warms up. But perhaps i'm just nuts. It never does it on a warm engine, so it just makes sense to me to it's warming up the car.. Oh, and i'm missing a part to my interior and i have no idea where in the heck to find it. It's the sliding clamp that keeps the opening to the lights on the right side of the tailgate closed. I pulled the one from the left and it worked in the right just fine.. so it doesn't matter what side it's from, just wondering what the heck part this is so i can order one. Edited May 5, 2011 by lesstutrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Oh, and another thing i was just unsure on. When i start up my car sometimes that sucker idles up to like 1800rpm and takes about a minute to drop down to a normal 800-1200rpm range. I think it's just the thermostat running it harder until heating (and engine cooling) system warms up. But perhaps i'm just nuts. It never does it on a warm engine, so it just makes sense to me to it's warming up the car.. Sounds kinda like a gummed up Idle control solenoid. The solenoid can be removed and cleaned in only about 15 minutes. You'll need a new gasket, it's only a few bucks from a dealer though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Accident? One of those minor details people tend to leave out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesstutrey Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 Accident? One of those minor details people tend to leave out Yeah, doesn't really effect what it could be though. Just means each one of those points had some extra stress. This would be the only non-cosmetic damage i've noticed since the accident, which was a slow one in a 4 way stop intersection where i got got front/right damage, the bumper bent and this stupid thing on the side of the F250 punched a hole in the lower part of my resonator (which was bypassed by duct tape anywho)... and my paint doesn't match on hood and side fender but paying to have it repainted is a bit.. uhm.. pricey, especially when i'd rather just get the whole thing redone in C+ quality black (leaving gold bottom) for about the same price as just getting the fender and hood done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Maybe spray some silicone on the outer axle boot and see if it goes away. This... I tend to see this quite a bit and even on new axles, it can cause a noise from the boot folds rubbing on itself. Spray it down with a little bit of silicone spray and go for a drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesstutrey Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share Posted May 7, 2011 This... I tend to see this quite a bit and even on new axles, it can cause a noise from the boot folds rubbing on itself. Spray it down with a little bit of silicone spray and go for a drive. Tried it, no difference. Heat on the right side rotor was lower than the left side, so i no longer believe it's brake rubbing.. leaning more and more toward sway bar. It should not be missing paint at the connection point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesstutrey Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Had a great time today (sarcasm) but got these problems resolved, mostly. We found the rub, i took a 3lb hammer and gently massaged it in a bit, the noise is gone. Little spray paint and the spot is gone. Since the 2" lift i have does not compensate for the control arm coming inward when the angle is increased, meaning a more narrow wheelbase, and the wheels are a bit closer to the wheel well. However i think i had this rub after the accident so part of the fender just got bent, not sure. I dunno if i am the only person who's complained about rub with stock tires after a lift on these generation OBs. That was like, the easy nice news. But why i brought this car into the shop to begin with was one of the scariest drives i've had in my life. I was driving around taking down numbers for apartments and what not with my girlfriend and i noticed it was awful easy to speed. I pulled into a parking lot to write down a number and when i put my car into park, it rev'd to 4-6k rpm. I turned it off, hoping it would not do that when i started it back up. No such luck. So i put it into gear and it was ONLY driving at 2000rpm idle. I had to drive 12 blocks to my friends shop. There are several major intersections on the way and when your car is idling at 2000rpm, you brakes don't work very well. I nearly got creamed in 3 intersections and was lucky i was not behind anyone at a stop. I had to sit on the brakes with full body weight and i was still creeping forward, i put on my hazards but no one seemed to get it meant my brakes were not working well. I finally got to the shop and didn't die. I was happy. As documented in this post I've had some idle problems. Guess what, these are directly related. My freaking throttle cables were just gunked to hell. Blasted it with some wd-40, drove it around (showed the other mechanic the noise and he found the rub spot in about 30 seconds) and now my car is idling at 700-800rpm, something it's never done since i had it. I feel like a moron for not cleaning my throttle lines, but glad BOTH my problems are mostly resolved. I was wondering if my anti-sway being loose (and possibly bent) on the side there was rub could have actually been causing the rub, since the wheel was allowed to angle into the car a bit more? I'm really looking for an excuse to upgrade to ralliteks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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