Sonicfrog Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) OK... So I FINALLY got the engine back in the 1983 Brat I bought from The Subaru Junkie over two months ago. The wiring has been modified a ton and I'm trying to clean it up and bring it back to speck. Right now, the disty is wired directly to the coil. In the Haynes diagram I have, it shows that it should be wired to the "Full Transistor Ignitor". What is it, what does it look like, where is it (or where should it be)... and since the Haynjes diagram doesn't list the wire color code for this device, what are the wire colors that lead to it? A pic of this would be great. Also, I'm having a problem with the alternator. It won't charge unless I rev the engine past 4000 RPM's. I did find that the small white / red striped wire had been cut and not reconnected. I thought restoring that to its proper connection would fix the problem... But no, twas not to be. I have had the alt checked, but I'll have it checked again just to be on the safe side. I'm in the process of tracing the entire circuit, but I need not mention that, though it is a learning experience, it's tedious! Any thoughts? PS. The coil is an aftermarket coil. I don't know if that would make any difference, but... it is. Edited May 12, 2011 by Sonicfrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I am not sure of the igntion black box without seeing the manual, but usually they are signal amplifiers. How exactly did you "test" the alt. Bench testing isnt worth the time it takes to remove a fanbelt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 I am not sure of the igntion black box without seeing the manual, but usually they are signal amplifiers. How exactly did you "test" the alt. Bench testing isnt worth the time it takes to remove a fanbelt. Yeah... I watched them do it. It was just one speed... Very fast... Which would not reveal the problem in the first place. Didn't get a chance to trace the circuit today. Hope to have time to do it tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 How to PROPERLY test an altenator step 1 NEVR EVER have it bench tested step 2 check idle voltage (just because) step 3 with everything on, rev the engine to 1800 rpm and check the output. Voltage shold be 13.5 to 14.2. I bet you wont reach that number. Benchtesting has to be properly done, which 99% of people do not know how to do, rebuilders do. Another BS thing to watch is digital alt handheld testers. Another item no one knows how to read or use. The old fashioned silver toaster works fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 "Full Transistor Ignitor" is another name for the ignition module inside the distributor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 "Full Transistor Ignitor" is another name for the ignition module inside the distributor. on the coil bracket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 "Full Transistor Ignitor" is another name for the ignition module inside the distributor. I thought the car wouldnt run without this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 I thought the car wouldnt run without this. It seems to run fine. We drove it from Sacramento to Fresno, 200 + miles, without any problems. But with the non-charging issue, it makes driving around town impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) The crank angle sensor is inside the disty and the ignitor (amp) is located externally of the disty. Both of them need to work in order for the ignition to fire the plugs. If the disty has been modified perhaps there are the old standard points installed in it. The alternator sounds like the brushes may be bad or the connection to them. Just replace it and things should be ok. Make sure the wires on the back side have close to battery voltage on them. If that is good then the alternator is for sure bad. Edited May 12, 2011 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 The crank angle sensor is inside the disty and the ignitor (amp) is located externally of the disty. Both of them need to work in order for the ignition to fire the plugs. If the disty has been modified perhaps there are the old standard points installed in it. Nope. It's the Denso set-up, connected right to the coil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) OK. Made some progress. I tracked the alt circuit problems. there were a couple of wires that were cut. I reconnected them, and now when I take the jumper cables off, the headlights don't dim right away. This would seem to indicate that the charging circuit is now working without having to rev the engine to trigger it. BUT, after a few minutes, the engine starts to sputter and it dies. I'm thinking that. since the coil is an aftermarket replacement, it is not designed to be used with a transistor ignitor. Perhaps the old tran ignirot blew out, and instead of getting the correct replacement, a previous owner got a hotter coil. Since the battery is charging, the slight voltage drop may be causing a drop in the electrical field generated by the coil. causing it to stall. This is all supposition of course. Will get back when I have done more diagnostic. Edited May 12, 2011 by Sonicfrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Do the Alt test and stop guessing. It will save you a lot of grief to rule it out or condem it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 The dash is apart and can't get a RPM reading at the moment. I'm 91.8 % certain the alt is now functioning properly. I want to get the correct disty / coil set-up before I go any further. I'm hoping that I can get to a bone-yard tomorrow afternoon. If there are no 83's, but a few 87's, would the coil / trans ignitor work from that series? If I can get this bit taken care of, then it's on to the rewiring of the dash..... Which is all mis-wired. The tach didn't work the volt meter didn't ever register the proper voltage. Gas meter also didn't work, and the indicator lights... Well, when you opened the door, the parking brake light would come on instead! All this said, believe it or not, doing this kind of troubleshooting / electrical sleuthing is fun for me! I has to be, or else why would I get myself into this kind of situation!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) PS. When I say that someone went all wire crazy, here is a pic of what I'm dealing with... And this is after I've already gotten a lot of the extemporaneous wiring out of the engine bay! ... And yes, that battery terminal IS going to be replaced at the next opportunity! Edited May 13, 2011 by Sonicfrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Which side is positive and negative on the coil? the yellow wires should be negative, and the black w/white stripe should be positive. what is the green wire? The transistor doohickee is most likely referring to an spfi coil with optical disty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 Which side is positive and negative on the coil? the yellow wires should be negative, and the black w/white stripe should be positive. what is the green wire? The transistor doohickee is most likely referring to an spfi coil with optical disty In reverse order: The disty is the Denso magnetic induced spark.... No points. You see what I mean... There are wires just going all over the place!!!! The green wire goes to a mystery add-on relay. I won't know what it does until I disconnect it and see what fails!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 on the coil bracket Incorrect,it is inside the distributor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I thought the car wouldnt run without this. It won`t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 The crank angle sensor is inside the disty and the ignitor (amp) is located externally of the disty. Both of them need to work in order for the ignition to fire the plugs. If the disty has been modified perhaps there are the old standard points installed in it. The alternator sounds like the brushes may be bad or the connection to them. Just replace it and things should be ok. Make sure the wires on the back side have close to battery voltage on them. If that is good then the alternator is for sure bad. No CAS or coil bracket ignition amp on an ea-81. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 BTW... Here are the innards of the disty, with the magnetic spark inducer. It is connected directly to the coil.... Along with all those other wires! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 According to the Haynes diagram for the 1982 - 83, it should have a transistor ignitor. Now, maybe Haynes got it wrong - wouldn't be the first time a repair manual and reality have gone astray - but on this project so far, it's been pretty accurate. PS. Speaking of going astray..... Bryan Adams just had a daughter. Her first name is Maribella.... Pratty name. Her middle name?.... Bunny! What's up with that!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) No CAS or coil bracket ignition amp on an ea-81. Thanks Naru. I was thinking EA-82. It looks like the pickup and ignitor are inside the disty in this case. I assume the engine is dying due to lack of spark. I would suspect the device inside the disty is causing the trouble after it warms up. To verify that, place a test light probe tip (clip lead to groound) on the wire between the disty and the coil after the engine dies. That should be the minus side of the coil. Crank the engine and see if you get light pulses on the probe while cranking. If the light is off or just stays lit then the disty is most likely the trouble. If the light is off remove the wires going to the minus side of the coil and verify that power is now getting to the minus side through the coil while the ignition is ON. That will mean the pickup is grounded. If the light still doesn't light up then check the plus side of the coil and make sure power is getting to that side of the coil. Power to that side only would mean the coil has a problem. If you still don't have power to the plus side of the coil then power from the ignition system has a problem. Edited May 13, 2011 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 BTW... Here are the innards of the disty, with the magnetic spark inducer. It is connected directly to the coil.... Along with all those other wires! Haynes got it right. Your "full transistor ignitor" is in the photo. It is hooked up properly. Don`t be molesting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) Naru... Thanks! That would explain why they didn't give a wire code for the connection between the disty and the FTI. Will not molest... Me No Molest!!!! Now, the next question: Both leads from the disty are hooked up to the coil (see previous photo). Is that proper? Edited May 13, 2011 by Sonicfrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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