Really Bad steering wheel shake

[KaraK]

After searching many posts, I think I have my problem mostly diagnosed, but I'm looking for any input ya'll are willing to share. Car is 01 Outback H6 Automatic w/118,000miles. I "think" I have a seized caliper/warped rotor, on front pass. side. Shake is terrible! Also hear noise like warped rotor, BUT oddly, I do not feel that in pedal as much as I would have thought, and the car was not pulling right excessively either. That wheel was quite a bit hotter than the others. I jacked up the car, took the wheel off, and there does seem to be pad material on that rotor. Also, I was unable to turn the rotor by hand. I have more detailed questions to ask RE: fixing brakes--- But I will wait till you experts weigh in on, if this is really my problem, or could it be something else such as wheel bearing or CV or what???? According to reciepts from previous owner, the following was done at 103,000miles Front rotors, pads, 2-CV axels, Pass.side caliper, Pass.side caliper housing. (All Napa parts) Any/all input would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks!

[MilesFox]

IF you want to inspect the parts and take off the wheel, you can take off the caliper by removing the lower bolt, swing it up, and slide it off.

 

The slide pins may be rusty, causing the caliper to hang up. If you can get it apart, clean it, and use syl-glide lube from napa, this would be best for routine overall maintenance seasonally(wisconsin rust belt!)

 

According to your maintenance history and miles, it could be due for a wheel bearing.

 

typical steering wheel vibrations could be the following in this order:

loose lugnuts, possible if you ahd the wheel off recently

 

bad belt in tire/imbalance, rotate the tire to the other side and see if the vibration moves with it

 

 

Loose ball joint, wheel can wobble at highway speed, causing a shimmy and tire wear. Typically, a bad ball joint will rattle and clunk over bumps and potholes

 

Bad inner axle DOJ (double offset joint) will usually occur either during acceleration, or deceleration, and will go away at the trasnsiton from either way.

 

Wheel bearing, you will have a rumble sound that may go away when changing a lane in one direction, but occur the other way. Also, the steering will feel loser one direction than the other, sort of a delay, like a big ol truck but one direction. The rotor can rub against the caliper bracket if it's bad enough, and the pads can be worn at a slant. This can cause the caliper to work only the piston side and not slide for equal clamping, and can therfore seize, compounded by winter road salts and corrosion. Sometimes jacking up the car and wiggleing the tire will be elusive to subaru wheel bearings.

 

I would recommend taking up the cailper and inspecting and lubing the slide pins, and see if it improves

[KaraK]

IF you want to inspect the parts and take off the wheel, you can take off the caliper by removing the lower bolt, swing it up, and slide it off.

 

The slide pins may be rusty, causing the caliper to hang up. If you can get it apart, clean it, and use syl-glide lube from napa, this would be best for routine overall maintenance seasonally(wisconsin rust belt!)

Thanks for your input! I am leaning to this, as the issue.Best method for cleaning???

Should I soak them in something?? Green scrubby pad??

According to your maintenance history and miles, it could be due for a wheel bearing.

Would this make the wheel hot???? EXTREME pounding steering shake?

 

typical steering wheel vibrations could be the following in this order:

loose lugnuts, possible if you ahd the wheel off recently

Lugnuts were NOT loose, In fact, I had a hard time cracking some of them loose.

 

bad belt in tire/imbalance, rotate the tire to the other side and see if the vibration moves with it

This is WAY worse than any imbalance I've felt before!

 

 

Loose ball joint, wheel can wobble at highway speed, causing a shimmy and tire wear. Typically, a bad ball joint will rattle and clunk over bumps and potholes

Tire wear is minimal, nothing like my old Safari Van that DID have a bad ball joint, That tire was smooth on outside and meaty on inside.

 

Bad inner axle DOJ (double offset joint) will usually occur either during acceleration, or deceleration, and will go away at the trasnsiton from either way.

Possible--- But this wouldn't make wheel hot would it??

 

Wheel bearing, you will have a rumble sound that may go away when changing a lane in one direction, but occur the other way. Also, the steering will feel loser one direction than the other, sort of a delay, like a big ol truck but one direction. The rotor can rub against the caliper bracket if it's bad enough, and the pads can be worn at a slant. This can cause the caliper to work only the piston side and not slide for equal clamping, and can therfore seize, compounded by winter road salts and corrosion. Sometimes jacking up the car and wiggleing the tire will be elusive to subaru wheel bearings.

This is possible-How will I know if the cause is wheel bearing or just stuck slide pins? I jacked up the car and I can't move the wheel by hand.

 

I would recommend taking up the cailper and inspecting and lubing the slide pins, and see if it improves

Thank You I will try to do this

[Tapil]

Have you tried having your tires balanced? or having the one tire you think is causing the problems balanced?

 

You should always keep you tires in balance to avoid it warping the rotors from the wobbles

[TheLoyale]

Warp rotors would only come from excessive heat during hard braking, an Unbalanced wheel isn't gonna warp a rotor, it will give you a shake/wobble feeling.

 

As Fox said, Tierod ends could cause a shake too along with a CV Axle.

[KaraK]

I "think" I have a stuck caliper due to stuck slide pins,(and probly warped rotor) just got back from Napa/ the library to get manual and sil glide lube. Please excuse my EXTREME ignorance MilesFox said to remove caliper by removing bottom bolt and sliding up. Which bolt is it?? Do I assume the slide pins are the ones with the little rubber boots on??? and the one to remove is the one closest to the ground actually going through what the book calls a "support"???? Am I supposted to be removing the support too??? The only brakes I've ever done were GM and I always had buddies supervising me. I'm alone here, 40 miles from the "buddies" Please help Thanks!!!!!

[johnceggleston]

there is probably already thread telling how to do this. maybe even some pictures. try searching ''stuck caliper'' or ''slide pins'' and have a read.

[KaraK]

there is probably already thread telling how to do this. maybe even some pictures. try searching ''stuck caliper'' or ''slide pins'' and have a read.

 

Thanks! will do, sorry I did'nt think to do that:slobber:

[MilesFox]

I "think" I have a stuck caliper due to stuck slide pins,(and probly warped rotor) just got back from Napa/ the library to get manual and sil glide lube. Please excuse my EXTREME ignorance MilesFox said to remove caliper by removing bottom bolt and sliding up. Which bolt is it?? Do I assume the slide pins are the ones with the little rubber boots on??? and the one to remove is the one closest to the ground actually going through what the book calls a "support"???? Am I supposted to be removing the support too??? The only brakes I've ever done were GM and I always had buddies supervising me. I'm alone here, 40 miles from the "buddies" Please help Thanks!!!!!

 

yes, it will be the lowest bolt on the caliper itself, gong throug the 'caliper bracket' as its called. It shouldhave a 12 or 14mm head, unbilt it and take it out. The caliper will swing up. you may have to persuade it with a screwdriver. once the caliper swings clear of the rotor, it will slide off the top pin.

 

use a brake parts cleaner to clean off the bolts. It may be rusty and gummy, a green scotch brite pad will scuff throught it without scratching.

 

put some grease in the boots, on the slide pins, and on the boot around the piston.

[KaraK]

there is probably already thread telling how to do this. maybe even some pictures. try searching ''stuck caliper'' or ''slide pins'' and have a read.

 

Thanks, Miles, and John-- After searching for above, I'm not sure if this is within my capabilities (I don't have a torch) I'm gonna wait till tomorow I think-

Maybe threads I searched were "worst case senarios"? And hours of creative pounding/torches is not typical???:eek:

Words of encouragement??? Or???

[TheLoyale]

Most cases, put some PB-Blaster or WD on the bolt, use a closed end wrench and tap it with a hammer to break it loose. Shouldn't be too stuck, But if the brake had been touching a while and causing excessive heat, it might be a little harder, but not much.

 

Go for it!

[KaraK]

Most cases, put some PB-Blaster or WD on the bolt, use a closed end wrench and tap it with a hammer to break it loose. Shouldn't be too stuck, But if the brake had been touching a while and causing excessive heat, it might be a little harder, but not much.

 

Go for it!

 

I'm ahead of you on the PB--- I think the threads I searched were refering to the pins being next to impossible to get out.

I think this may have been going on for a week or two (I smelled a burnt plastic smell) (and a slight feeling of warpage) It just got REALLY REALLY bad yesterday.

[TheLoyale]

I'm ahead of you on the PB--- I think the threads I searched were refering to the pins being next to impossible to get out.

I think this may have been going on for a week or two (I smelled a burnt plastic smell) (and a slight feeling of warpage) It just got REALLY REALLY bad yesterday.

 

At least with these Newer gen Subarus, you can just press the piston back into its bore, where as the Older Subarus (Pre-Legacy) You had to push and turn at the same time to seat it back in its bore.

 

The Slide pins can be a PITA to unscrew, but you shouldn't have to take then out unless you need to replace them due to damage from salt.

 

Sil-glide is good stuff, I use Bearing grease and works fine too.

[KaraK]

Thanks for your vote of confidence:) Looks like I will be going for it- Since its raining, I have time to do a little more research and compile more Soob specific ???'s--- only brakes I've ever done are GM.

[TheLoyale]

Thanks for your vote of confidence:) Looks like I will be going for it- Since its raining, I have time to do a little more research and compile more Soob specific ???'s--- only brakes I've ever done are GM.

 

 

If you have done Brakes on a GM, doing brakes on a newer Subaru are pretty much the same. When you get into Subarus from the 1980s, thats where they change.

 

Basiclly, once you undo the bottom 14mm bolt which holds the Caliper to the bracket, swing up the caliper (Might need a screwdriver or tap it) once it swings up, you should be able to slide it off the guide pin at the top and then have the caliper hang by the brake line. Get a big C-Clamp to compress the piston back into its bore until its seated all the way down.

 

Also apply a little grease on the retainers for the brake pads as the pads need to slide too.

Edited May 15, 2011 by TheLoyale

[KaraK]

If you have done Brakes on a GM, doing brakes on a newer Subaru are pretty much the same. When you get into Subarus from the 1980s, thats where they change.

 

Basiclly, once you undo the bottom 14mm bolt which holds the Caliper to the bracket, swing up the caliper (Might need a screwdriver or tap it) once it swings up, you should be able to slide it off the guide pin at the top and then have the caliper hang by the brake line. Get a big C-Clamp to compress the piston back into its bore until its seated all the way down.

 

Also apply a little grease on the retainers for the brake pads as the pads need to slide too.

 

My goal right now is just to get the thing on the road- I'll probly be taking it apart again next week to get the rotor turned and probly new pads (by then I'll be an expert- )

I am kinda concerned about how to remove the caliper when it is clamped so tight to the rotor that I can't turn the wheel by hand. ?????

Once that issue is addressed, that bracket thing stays on- and I don't swing that up?

I read that the caliper is the only thing holding the rotor on, and to put some lugs back on to hold it in place while removing caliper.

I am assuming the reason for the hang up in the first place IS those slide things- I hope to clean/lube and reuse them. Sooo- they screw out?? There are no nuts/pins involved?? Posts I searched were talking about pounding/pressing/torching.

[TheLoyale]

There should be a bracket which is what your brake pads push on to, then your caliper goes over that, the glide pins screw to the bracket which holds the pads, There will be two 14mm or 17mm bolts which hold that Bracket to the wheel hub, but you do not need to remove that to change pads.

 

You will on the other hand, have to remove that bracket to get the rotor off, even after you remove the caliper, that bracket stays bolted to the wheel hub.

 

Here is a photo to help you. The red marks are the bracket which stays with the hub. You can also see the two Bolt holes for the bracket.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2011 by TheLoyale

[TheLoyale]

Turns out the caliper wasn't stuck, the pads were stuck in their retainer clips, Looks like rust might have built up on the brake pad and made them way to tight and get stuck. I just used a grinder to clean them up so they are free'd up.

 

Drives fairly good now, there is a little shake, but these pads have some cracking and some nicks (Not Stevie Nicks either!)

 

I don't think the rotors are wraped.

 

Kara, glad I could help you! And was great fun hanging out with you guys.

Edited May 15, 2011 by TheLoyale

[KaraK]

Thanks Tom(TheLoyale)! It wasn't that bad afer all!

[KaraK]

Although the car is driveable now, it does seem as though the rotor is warped.(or the same thing is happening again) I have been taking approx 15 mile trips to school, and that wheel is still getting HOT. Could this be simply the pads rubbing high spots on the rotor? Or is it getting ready to lock up again? I read somewhere about the rubber hose breaking down and not allowing fluid back to the master? If that is so- would pushing in the pistons, and cleaning up the area where pads meet caliper, allow me to drive 40-50-80 miles before reoccurance???? Your thoughts are much appreciated!!!

Once again BIG Thank You to TheLoyale for his help:):)

[jboymechanic]

Sounds to me like you need a front brake job as the previous one was done improperly. Brakes should ALWAYS be done as pairs as the pressure required to push out a caliper piston and then for it to return would be off balance. Always replace all the same components on both sides. In your case, I would recommend front pads, rotors, and calipers as your pads and rotors will be "cooked" on your pass side.

[KaraK]

Sounds to me like you need a front brake job as the previous one was done improperly. Brakes should ALWAYS be done as pairs as the pressure required to push out a caliper piston and then for it to return would be off balance. Always replace all the same components on both sides. In your case, I would recommend front pads, rotors, and calipers as your pads and rotors will be "cooked" on your pass side.

 

Sorry, I guess I haven't stated before- I plan on doing the front brakes properly later in the week. I was stranded at home (out in the sticks) and needed to get to school Mon.-Wed.(TheLoyale to the rescue!) I was planning on doing pads both sides, but only turning OR replacing pass side rotor. Do I really need to go through the time/expense of calipers?? Was trying to avoid bleeding (brakes AND my wallet) Would it be terrible to leave driver side rotor alone? I wouldn't mind turning it, but would really like to avoid the caliper thing- Am I being dumb?(Ignorant) Thoughts on the "hot wheel issue"? Just the warpage?? Would hate to spend $$ I don't really have, and then ruin the new stuff.

[TheLoyale]

I would say only turn that pass side rotor, do all new pads in the front and you should be good. The calipers looked fine and both pistons went in very easy.

 

I would leave the drive side rotor alone and just replace the pads, also couldn't hurt to check the rear as that noise seems to travel man. At least check it out so you know what your in for.

[jboymechanic]

ALWAYS do brakes as pairs. If only one side rotor is turned the texture will be different and the car may pull to one side or the other. Brake parts aren't that expensive, it is the labor that kills you when you go to a shop. If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right. This is your safety you're talking about here, is an extra $50-$100 not worth it for your safety?

[TheLoyale]

ALWAYS do brakes as pairs. If only one side rotor is turned the texture will be different and the car may pull to one side or the other. Brake parts aren't that expensive, it is the labor that kills you when you go to a shop. If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right. This is your safety you're talking about here, is an extra $50-$100 not worth it for your safety?

 

I totally agree about doing it right, but if you can't really afford it at the momenet, you will be fine.

 

You have no idea how long and far I drove my Legacy before I did anything to it and how many times I have gone up to 100mph with it.