KaraK Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 (edited) Drove the car to school today- OMG! The wheel is REALLY HOT! I touched the rotor with my fingernail, it INSTANTLY melted!!! I could see the heat waves coming off it!!! I think? this may be more than rotor warpage?? (or could it be?) If the original problem was just corrosion where pads meet bracket/caliper/clips, and we cleaned that off- It really shouldn't be hanging up THAT much to cause this much HEAT!!! I'm I right??? Should I be looking at possible caliper, hose, ABS issues? Any/all input gladly welcomed. Thanks. P.S. One more day of school tomorow- Do I try to make it??? (about 15miles each way) P.P.S. I'd like to note that the pass.side caliper, and housing were replaced by prev. owner at 103,000mi. she currently has 118,000mi. Edited May 18, 2011 by KaraK Add P.P.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 sounds like a failed brake hose (they collapse internally and don't allow unpressurized fluid to feedback through the hose). given that the former brake work by tom alleviated it temporarily, you might take that as a sign that the brake hose needs replaced. can't be positive but it looks awfully suspicious. thing is - you should "feel" like it's braking right now. like coast slosely in a parking lot or shift from Park to Drive without hitting the gas and it won't move forward because the brakes are gripping. pump the brakes...i they lock and "stick" then the caliper is sticking, probably due to the brake line. any of this sound like it? another option would be wheel bearing but there's a lot of things suggesting that's not it too. now that it's this bad it should be fairly easy to jack the car up and check for wheel bearing play. i've seen some really bad ones not have any play at all until you remove it from the car, but if yours is this bad i'd expect some play. ALWAYS do brakes as pairs. If only one side rotor is turned the texture will be different and the car may pull to one side or the other. it's not that essential if the pads and rotor are good it doesn't matter and won't pull. if they were that sensitive to pulling then 70% of subaru's on the road would be pulling because of varying rates of grease loss in the pins, corrosion forming, wear on old/high mileage rotors, rust, etc. doesn't make any sense and real world experience tells us this isn't happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaraK Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 Tom said that the bearing and whatnot seemed O.K. when we had it jacked up. I will go drive up+down the road now, to check per your instructions. One thing that may or may not be pertinant, since this has been happening, I park in the driveway (slight downhill incline(decline)) put it in park, If I move my body forward and back, (or push the car a little) It will make a groaning noise and creep forward an inch or two. It will do this three times before it stops. I will check in again after my ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaraK Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 (edited) Back from my test drive, When I step on the brake it does kind of lock, but the car will inch up slowly, not like its locked-locked. It does feel like the brakes are on, going extra slow thru the subdivision. Also noticed, going extra slow, the rotational noise sounds like footsteps on gravel, not like the squeek I'd come to expect from warped rotor (but I'm not the brightest bulb around here by a long shot) Thoughts???? P.S. the wheel did heat up, even though I was going extra slow, if that matters. Edited May 18, 2011 by KaraK add P.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 It might be a brake hose as Gary said, I have never had this issue, even with a Legacy that has 216,000. If anything, I might be able to get you a brake hose from a 2000 Outback down by Fox. If you still need to go to Westbend friday, we could stop there and grab it probably so you don't have to buy one unless your cool with buying one, dunno if any parts house would carrie the right lenth in-stock, but I'm putting ideas out there. To me the wheel bearing would also make some type of noise if it were bad, this car is super quiet. I will have to think about all this some more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaraK Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 A friend of mine had a hose issue on a 98 somethingJapanese (not a Subaru). He said he replaced the caliper twice, and it ended up being the hose. I also saw the hose thing on some of my initial searches for this problem. You certainly know better than I! Wheel bearing?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 We will check out that hose, I might be able to get an entire duel pot caliper assy which I know works correctly. Waiting for a response from Fox. I am gonna rule out "Wheel Bearing" if the wheel keeps getting extramely hot, it will over time damage the wheel bearing and break down the grease, but I doubt this is the problem at hand right now. I'm sure you'll read my PM with all the other info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 You can have the brake hoses. I am not using them. They should be a direct fit. You will need to keep your copper washers and bajo bolts, though. Might i suggest a seized piston? typically occurs if the brake pads are run real low, and the exposed piston flash rusts, and then stiicks to the bore when it is pushed back in. Just an idea. As a general rule, it is a good idea to inspect, disassemble, and lubricate the brake hardware once in a while to prevent these symptoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 You can have the brake hoses. I am not using them. They should be a direct fit. You will need to keep your copper washers and bajo bolts, though. Might i suggest a seized piston? typically occurs if the brake pads are run real low, and the exposed piston flash rusts, and then stiicks to the bore when it is pushed back in. Just an idea. As a general rule, it is a good idea to inspect, disassemble, and lubricate the brake hardware once in a while to prevent these symptoms. Awesome, I will try to get down to the Shop tomorrow if that works for you. I will call you tomorrow to see where you at. I will also inspect the caliper even more, The pistons seemed to press back in easy like normal, but good idea. The brake pads are almost like new also. Kara, I wonder, since you said the lady had the caliper replaced on the passenger side, I wonder what the pads look like on the driver side? Have they been done, or are they really worn. This is something we should also look at. Kara, let me know what time you want to get your brakes done this weekend. As Saturday I am gonna help Fox do Head Gaskets on a Legacy, so I can either help you before I do that or after. Either way let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 tom, during the day, the gate is usually open on the far end for the other building, and you should be able to drive in. The rubber lines are still on the car. Uyou will need to unbolt them from the struts, and undo the fitting to the hardlines. You will have access to them if i am not there during the day. I will be there friday doing cam seals on a 98 impreza. Thursday i may or may not be there, depending on if i get called for work. Now is the time i need to get a job. I can do the janitor thing, if i can get a route downtown or near the east side. Let me know if there is a possible position, as i would take it right away, as my odd remodeling work has come to a slowdown. I will probably hate myself a month into it, but i need a solid predictable income. unless i can get car insurance, and register something to drive, i can do jimmy johns delivery all day long, have experience, and know my way around very efficiently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Sounds cool, I will see what comes of tomorrow. Thanks! As for the Job, I wouldn't know off hand about any positions downtown as thats out of "My" loop. But it is in Tim Wessels loop and he is the area manager. Give him a call any time during the day at 414-336-4141, I know he is looking for people ASAP. And I know you know how to do all kinds of work, floors, basic janitorial etc. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaraK Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 Kara, I wonder, since you said the lady had the caliper replaced on the passenger side, I wonder what the pads look like on the driver side? Have they been done, or are they really worn. This is something we should also look at. .[/quote Both side front pads were done at the time of the caliper, also something on reciept called R&R front C.V. axels....... Grand total $893.43 I think thats why Dude got rid of the car, he spent a sh*tload of $$$ on it! This was 1 1/2 years ago- 15,000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I would assume he had a new Axle put in or rebooted as $800 is a lot just for brake work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 If it comes down to it, i would come off my calipers for 100 bucks installed, as long as i can keep the take-offs for rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaraK Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 Do you think it's the calipers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Do you think it's the calipers? I would like to see the other side, and I don't think your calipers are the culprit. The problem with the duel port calipers Fox has, use a different style bracket, so it makes me wonder if these would be the same diameter. Fox, the style Kara has is the type with two 14mm bolts which hold the caliper to the bracket. Not the style you have, So I wonder if the rotors are larger on this 3.0 Outback vs the 2.5 Outback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Do you think it's the calipers? it's not the calipers. your brake hose is failing (i mean, i think it is and it's getting too ignored in this post). a cursory glance shows the 2.5 liter and 3.0 liter outbacks of the same year have the same hoses. so the 2000 OBW hose should fit your 2001 3.0 hose, front. or, they're only $14 at the auto parts store new. subaru calipers are CRAZY nuts. they are almost ALWAYS interchangeable, particularly the fronts, if you swap the brackets with them. in this case they are definitely interchangeable if you swap brackets....and sometimes you can even swap calipers even if the brackets are different - if you can exchange pins for bolts, etc so to speak. 2001 did see a large contingent of models going to a larger rotor so it might have a larger rotor, i'm not sure about though, but there are essentially two possible rotor sizes. so if you had to swap brackets you'd essentially be dropping the rotor size. but i don't think caliper replacement is the concern here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 (edited) a couple of pointers to quickly diagnose bad brake hose: get it to the point that it's dragging and you can feel it. jack it up quickly and get the wheel off - if it's hard to turn it should be obvious the brake is sticking. that's a good sign already. if you can get it to "stick" - then briefly bleed that caliper (thereby releasing pressure the hose isn't able too) and then try to turn it - if it frees up or gets easier - you just diagnosed a bad brake hose. i'm sure they can collapse internally to varying degrees so it could be tricky - the ones i've seen though were obvious. when removed you can't blow through the hose - so only compressed fluid (with all the extra forces of the hydraulics behind the braking system) will go through, but the non existent force mutliplication going the other way doesn't allow it to "return". i could envision a scenario where some pressure can bleed back, so be attentive, but again the tests above help me confirm them easily. they typically fail at the metal "clamps" or where a bracket attaches to the hose. Edited May 20, 2011 by grossgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Gary, thanks for the tips. The replacement hoses I got I can sure blow air through them easy, plus I know these hoses came from a car with proper working brakes. I agree that is isn't the caliper, as I said before, my Legacy has 216k on it and was owned by a dude in the ghetto for 205k and was not care for what so ever. So if my calipers still work, Kara's should aswell (Unless by chance its a defect, doubt) Kara, I am gonna reuse the Bajo bolt and washers from your old hose as I couldn't get the ones from this hose (They were gone) Never Fear, we will get you're car fixed this weekend and bleed the brakes. Question for anyone, Now do I only need to bleed the 4 wheels, or is there also a bleeder on the ABS box or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaraK Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 Question for anyone, Now do I only need to bleed the 4 wheels, or is there also a bleeder on the ABS box or something? Gary??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Gary???Bleed all 4 as normal, i've never had to do any extra steps on ABS models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaraK Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 Bleed all 4 as normal, i've never had to do any extra steps on ABS models. Thanks Gary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Thanks Gary!oh no! save those comments for when it's finally fixed! good luck to you and tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaraK Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 O.K. Off to the parts store..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 if you can take a cursory glance and compare the new one to the one on the car if you're driving that car there. turn the wheel all the way left or right and peer behind the tire to make sure the hose looks the same. last set of hoses i got worked but we had to fabricate a bracket because the one was not right. O.K. Off to the parts store.....i i was kidding by the way, not meant to annoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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