Cougar Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 You are right, I too wouldn't think those numbers are bad enough to kill the engine. The bad compression numbers on cylinders 2 and 4 may mean there is a problem with the valve timing for that side of the engine. Though there may be a problem with the rings of number 4. Joyboymechanic's comment about the ignitor transistor is a good point. You stated earlier the spark was weak. Replacing the ignitor is a good thing to try at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontos Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 what really irks me is i had a 87 gl parts car that i just sold to some dude for scrap. it was "just an eyesore" and i had taken very little from it. i bet it didn't have a cracked head or a bad igniter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deener Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 From what I see here, it looks like the oil raised your compression result on the one cylinder, correct? AND your car starts then dies, correct? I had EXACT the same issues when I had a bad piston ring/ringland/cylinder. I swapped in a new block and that was my 'quick fix'. Note that in tandem I also had the exact same 'starts and then dies issue'. The fact that your air filter is all gummed up and your compression shows as it does, leads me to say that the two issues you describe here are directly related.... The MAF has been/is getting soiled from blow-by and as a result, it can't 'read' properly. The blow-by is getting past your toasted rings and fouling your MAF sensor. I see that you have checked it but did you clean it with a throttle body cleaner or carb cleaner yet? Maybe the soiling has advanced to the point where the sensor is dead now? I only piped up about this because I went through this seemingly identical situation and ran the gambit of troubleshooting and research to find that it boiled down to the cylinder/piston rings being wrecked. Here is a link to the thread with pics of the bad cylinder: http://ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=121266 Good luck, Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontos Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 From what I see here, it looks like the oil raised your compression result on the one cylinder, correct? AND your car starts then dies, correct? yes, the oil raised the pressure in that cylinder, but now it doesn't start at all. after it first died, it started then died two more times and now no longer starts. The MAF has been/is getting soiled from blow-by and as a result, it can't 'read' properly. The blow-by is getting past your toasted rings and fouling your MAF sensor. I see that you have checked it but did you clean it with a throttle body cleaner or carb cleaner yet? i didn't bother to clean it because it appeared to be in perfect shape. shiny and clean, nothing bent or wobbly or otherwise indicating it wasn't working. thanks for the input and the link, i'll look through your thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 you need to clean the small port inside the maf with MASS AIRFLOW SENSOR CLEANER. it has a "hotwire" and if it has gunk on it, it will not work right. its just a thread in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontos Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 Joyboymechanic's comment about the ignitor transistor is a good point. You stated earlier the spark was weak. Replacing the ignitor is a good thing to try at least. anywhere that still sells this? would it be listed as an Electronic Ignition Module, or is that something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deener Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Junkyard is probably your best bet, unless you get a parts person that knows exactly what you are talking about. I tried looking for one of those for my GL when I had spark issues and all the parts people I spoke to thought I was asking for an ignition module...nope. That issue was totally different though (green stereo wire was shorting out the ECU) and I wasn't getting ANY spark. If you have a JY close by that you can visit, grab another MAF sensor while you are there digging out the 'ignitor'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontos Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) quick update. i said the ecu showed code of six short lights. after actually looking into how to get the codes out of it, i realized it was in technician dynamic diagnostic mode or whatever. previous owner had left both connectors connected. my bad. actual codes are: 14- fuel injector abnormal output 34- egr solenoid or circuit same codes in normal (starting/driving) mode and read memory mode. don't know if any of it is relevant, but now i'm looking into it. bonus! i finally got rid of that annoying relay noise with the key on. edit: after plugging the fuel injector back in code 24 went away edit edit: egr wouldn't be the problem, as far as i can tell. but a clogged or faulty fuel injector seems like it might be a problem, what with no fuel getting into the engine using starting fluid/putting gas in the throttle body would not work if there was no injector, correct? Edited May 27, 2011 by ontos oh just some edits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 starting fluid would make it try to start or start momentarily. go back to spark. I think you have a bad igniter too. maybe dead distributor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontos Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) ok. things are happening, but i'm not sure what. put everything back together from the compression test, recleaned a bunch of electrical connectors with a fresh can of cleaner (high pressure), replaced a couple fuses even though they looked fine, double checked that the fuel pump was working. nothing in particular, really. but! she's actually almost starting now, or at least trying to kick over instead of the weird whiny cranking i was getting before. and the error code 14 went away and 23 came up instead. 23 is air flow meter circuit. so i'm going to get some MAF cleaner right now and clean the sucker even though it looks like it doesn't need it. also noticed one of the harnesses for the fuel injector has a wire that's lost it's insulation, so that may explain the occasional fuel injector code? even though it's annoying that it might be something that was covered on the first page of this thread (sorry folks! :-\), oh please god let it be something as simple as that. Edited May 27, 2011 by ontos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) The starter fluid gets sucked in with the air so the injectors can be out of service and the engine should kick over. You don't want to have the test connectors connected under normal situations as you found out. The ignitor seems your best bet still as was already mentioned. The error code for the air sensor is in regard to the circuit for the sensor. You need to check the wiring between the ECU and the sensor for a problem. There could be a open connection problem, a short to ground on one of the leads, or some other connection problem. The sensor itself could be bad. Edited May 28, 2011 by Cougar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontos Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 i found 12v on one pin of the MAF, i'm assuming the others are common and ecu connection? i'll look the wiring over and on tuesday i can drive to the junkyard and try to find an ignitor and MAF. engine sounds awfully odd when it's trying to start. it almost kicks on and kinda sounds like it's starting to run for a few seconds if you're giving it gas, but then it cuts out. from the engine bay, centerish, but i'm not sure where exactly is a high pitched whining noise that goes up in pitch for a moment when it almost starts and then drops again for a second before the engine dies again. at the very end for a second there's a rattling noise (pinging?). i can record the sound if it's worthwhile. i'm not sure how my timing could be off after double checking the timing belts. i didn't mess with the distributor. i guess i'll try to find/replace the ignitor and MAF and see what happens. sorry, long winded. thinking out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 The low compression numbers on cylinders 2 and 4 make me think the timing is off by maybe a couple of teeth on that side anyways. I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontos Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 The low compression numbers on cylinders 2 and 4 make me think the timing is off by maybe a couple of teeth on that side anyways. I could be wrong. i so do not want to take that all apart again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 i so do not want to take that all apart again. I can understand that alright. It's just when you have two cylinders on the same side that have low compression, the possibility of the valve timing being off has to be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 did you set the timing belts by doing the driver side first and rotating the crank 360 before setting the passenger side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontos Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 did you set the timing belts by doing the driver side first and rotating the crank 360 before setting the passenger side? sure did. notch on driver's side cam sprocket was pointing down, notch on passenger's side was pointing up. double checked. it's possible one or the other was off by a tooth or two, like Cougar said. but it wasn't starting before i messed with them and it's doing exactly the same thing now. don't think it's timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 You may have made a better electrical connection when you cleaned things up. Have you tried spraying some starter fluid into the intake again to see if that helps? You may be correct about the valve timing and things are ok there. Lets say that is good. If that is so there is a really bad problem with cylinder #4 and it also looks like there is a small leak between 2 and 4. The numbers went up in #2 also when you put oil in #4 so it looks like a leak to me. All the inital numbers are low and looks like a pretty worn out engine. You should be seeing numbers around 185 lbs. I can't explain the high numbers you got in #4 unless the exhaust valve isn't opening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontos Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 You may have made a better electrical connection when you cleaned things up. Have you tried spraying some starter fluid into the intake again to see if that helps? You may be correct about the valve timing and things are ok there. Lets say that is good. If that is so there is a really bad problem with cylinder #4 and it also looks like there is a small leak between 2 and 4. The numbers went up in #2 also when you put oil in #4 so it looks like a leak to me. All the inital numbers are low and looks like a pretty worn out engine. You should be seeing numbers around 185 lbs. I can't explain the high numbers you got in #4 unless the exhaust valve isn't opening. i did try starter fluid again, and that didn't help. i agree with you that this engine is very worn out. i was just hoping to get it running for maybe a little while longer because it's about my only option right now. i still plan on trying to find an ignitor. i'm not expecting much, but i need a little more time before i don't have a car at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Mass airflow sensor. If you look inside the air tube, there's a little wire where the connector is at. The spfi unit is very similar in function to a carb. The only reason why not to put gas in a fuel infected car is that most don't have a place that you can without getting pretty creative. They are a pain. The best way to deal with them is to put a crescent wrench on the fan shaft which has two flat sides. Then you can turn the 10mm nuts without too much headache. A few suggestions if the other stuff mentioned doesn't work: 1. Check all your fuses and fusible links. 2. Check the inside of dist. cap for moisture. 3. It could very well be low fuel pressure which could be bad fuel pump, clogged filter, or bad pressure regulator. If you have a way to test the pressure it should be around 40 psi. 4. Weak coil? 5. If the batt. was losing charge as you were driving, suspect the alternator. Good luck. Let us know how it goes. Battery is possible, but on my Loyale, at least, it will run even with no battery in it. You need the battery to start it, but it will then continue to run with the battery taken out. I learned this while playing with the engine one day with the battery on the ground (to make work space). Used cables to start the motor, then promptly found my clumsy side and kicked one of the clamps off the battery post...played around with it and yeah! Runs fine with no battery. Not sure if other EA82 models will do the same, but it's way down the list im(v)ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man on the moon Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Also--try letting the ECU hang down and see if you can read any of the codes it flashes at you. This is not the check engine light--the computer itself has a little LED you can see through a peephole on the side. Turn the key to 'run' and it will blink a combination of long/short flashes at you. There may be more than one code, so watch until the pattern repeats itself. I just replaced the belts on my Loyale, then after a week or so it died. I figured it was a tensioner, redid all the timing. Got it running. Then it died, then it ran, then it died...the codes were nonsense so I just sent it to a garage, but if the codes make sense on yours it might help you pinpoint the problem. (I think mine is the ECU and/or the crank angle sensor, but who knows.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannoo93 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 i know what your problem is ...your actual distributer that goes into the engine is fried....i know this because its whats wrong with mine go pull a whole new distributor and plug it in...but i have a short somewhere and its causing my disty and engine to get hot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 i know what your problem is ...your actual distributer that goes into the engine is fried....i know this because its whats wrong with mine go pull a whole new distributor and plug it in...but i have a short somewhere and its causing my disty and engine to get hot You may have a shorted ignitor causing the trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontos Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 You may have a shorted ignitor causing the trouble. i didn't get a chance to hit up a junk yard when i was in salt lake last, so i'm on hold for the moment. as soon as i can find an ignitor, maybe a distributor, maybe a new maf, i'll let you guys know. thanks for all the help, everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoahDL88 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Maf or disty are two very different issues, do you not have fuel or spark? Identify which one is missing and adjust your diagnosis accordingly. Its probably been mentioned before, but you did line up the timing marks with the 3 small marks on the flywheel and not TDC correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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