81EA81 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 So my Brat is in need of an oil pan gasket, The only one i could find was cork. does anybody have an opinion about different gasket material? Should I install it dry? or with some RTV? I was thinking RTV between the pan and the gasket only. any Ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Most people just make them out of RTV and nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcap Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Most people just make them out of RTV and nothing else. That is what I do on pretty much every sort of vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Red Fuji from the dealer. Expensive but worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81EA81 Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Do I need unbolt and slide the engine forward to access the 5 or so bolts at the rear of the oil pan that are coverd by the crossmember ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81EA81 Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 WOW, now i feel like an idiot. It turns out the crossmember has a hole in it for each bolt, pretty convenient.:)Only on a Subaru:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deener Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 On the EA82's I have used the cork gaskets but as per a mention from GD, I coated both sides with ultra grey and let the RTV dry before installing the gasket. The RTV plus the cork works great. Totally seals up the cork and sort of 'rubberizes' it. I have done four of them that way so far and none have leaked or failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) Well, here's what I'm gonna do, so this post may be worthless without pictures. And it's probably not for everyone. Because, I'll need to pop the oil pan off, and put it back on without regasketing or new sealant. Coat the oil pan flange liberally with the color of high temp silicone I want. Fill the voids for total support under the gasket. Lay the gasket in the silicone and coat the rest of the gasket with silicone. Edit: I've got Ultra Gray, Ultra Copper, good old High Temp Red, and some other sealants that would do the job. I wouldn't use the copper or red unless I wanted to use it up. It's more expensive and good to 650...700*. Lay wax paper on the block surface, lay the pan in place and install the screws. Wipe off exterior excess and after a while remove the pan. Clean up the silicone. Edit: Inside and outside wet excess gets cleaned off Let it dry some and reinstall. Edit: On more wax paper if necessary. Doug Edit:These EA motors came with a gasket and if I deleted that, I'd have less oil in the motor. A difference of oil level on the stick. My pan is getting fittings, aluminum sump extension, temp sender. It has a magnetic aluminum drain plug, and I have plenty of the gaskets and silicone on hand. We need MOAR pictures:) One thing with silicone is the set/cure time. 24 hrs, and if you can't let it sit, consider something else. Spray Copper and Hi Tack, Permatex 1...2. Used very successfully before silicone came along. The Hi Temp red and such was on the market when these cars were made.... Edit: Fast curing, max oil resistance. Permatex® Ultra Black® Maximum Oil Resistance RTV Silicone Gasket Maker OEM specified. For dealership warranty requirements, ensures extended drivetrain warranty compliance. Fast-curing formula. Sensor safe, low odor, noncorrosive. Meets performance specs of OE silicone gaskets. Retains high flexibility, oil resistance properties through use of a patented adhesion system. Temperature range -65ºF to 500ºF (-54°C to 260°C) intermittent; resists auto and shop fluids and vibration. Suggested Applications: Valve covers, oil pans, intake manifold end seals, timing covers, transmission pans Permatex® Ultra Grey® Rigid High-Torque RTV Silicone Gasket Maker OEM specified. Designed specially for high-torque and high vibration applications, like those common in import engines, this premium RTV gasket maker exceeds manufacturers' performance requirements. Noncorrosive and low-odor. Maximum vibration resistance, with outstanding resistance to oils, cooling and shop fluids. Guaranteed not to leak. Temperature range -65ºF to 500ºF (-54°C to 260°C) intermittent. Suggested Applications: Valve covers, oil pans, intake manifold end seals, timing covers, water pumps, thermostat housings I have kept this on hand, before many here were born:) Don't need hi-temp for this job, tho. Permatex® High-Temp Red RTV Silicone Gasket OEM specified. Formulated for hi-temp applications, or heavy-duty use (such as towing, etc.). Replaces almost any cut gasket by making reliable “formed-in-place” gaskets that resist cracking, shrinking and migrating caused by thermal cycling. Coats pre-cut gaskets to increase reliability. Temperature range -65ºF to 650ºF (-54°C to 343°C) intermittent; resists auto and shop fluids. First generation 1970-1980 gasket maker. Suggested Applications: Valve covers, oil pans, timing covers, water pumps, thermostat housings, transmission pans I like the sprays, I don't get it on me. Permatex® Copper Spray-A-Gasket® Hi-Temp Adhesive Sealant Fast-drying, metallic copper sealant helps dissipate heat, prevents gasket burnout and improves heat transfer. Fills minor surface irregularities. Seals instantly. Fills hot spots and surface imperfections. Temperature range -50°F to 500°F (-45°C to 260°C); resists all types of automotive fluids, especially gasoline. Level 3* Suggested Applications: Cylinder head gaskets, carburetor gaskets, exhaust manifold gaskets and other high temperature applications This is a good one to have on hand. Coat a cork gasket. Permatex® Form-A-Gasket® No. 2 Sealant Slow-drying, non-hardening sealant designed for sealing cut gaskets and stamped parts. Allows for easy disassembly if required. Temperature range -65°F to 400°F (-54°C to 204°C); resists common shop fluids and fuels. Use where sealing is more important than adhesion. Suggested Applications: Valve cover gaskets, oil pan gaskets Permatex® High Tack™ Spray-A-Gasket™ Sealant Fast-drying all-purpose sealant dries to a highly tacky, non-brittle film. A reliable general adhesive. Remains effective under temperatures of -65°F to 500°F (-54°C to 260°C). Resists gasoline, oil, antifreeze, axle lube, kerosene, propane and butane. Level 3* Suggested Applications: Valve covers, fuel pumps, carburetors, manifold gaskets; seals all felt, cork, metal, paper, rubber and asbestos gaskets Edited June 3, 2011 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 You don't really want too much silicone, actually. Nor do you want too little. You want just the right amount. Wiping off the excess on the outside is a moot point. It'll make it look cleaner, but if a bunch squeezes out, then a bunch did on the inside too. That's not good. It'll clog up your engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skishop69 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 As stated before.... USE ULTRA GRAY! Not some color or type of your choosing. Ultra gray is factory sealant on all major car makers. I use it straight on the pan. Seals great. Don't try and use something else. It will end up leaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81EA81 Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 So I got my oil pan off pretty easily,when I peeked inside I found two different spots of metal shavings that were collected in the bottom of the pan.(Got pics but how do I give my image a URL?). When I was wiping them out I found a chunk that was approximately the size of a BB, a little smaller.NOT GOOD.Then when I was cleaning the block surface, I noticed a little hole near the two bolts that are closest to each other at the front of the engine. Not were the oil pan sits,but inward about 2" or so where the block halves meet.(got pics)Im thinking this is where the metal came from, But I dont know for sure. Dose anybody have pics of there bottom end so I can compare. As far as the gasket went, I ended up using Blue RTV I had laying around. I applied it to the oil pan side only with the cork gasket,It seemed to seal O.K. Torque specs said 3.3-4.0 lbs. That seems like nothing to me, and I dont have a torque wrench that goes that low so I lightly snuged them with a screw driver,now it looks like my oil pump is leaking a little too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEECHBM69 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (Got pics but how do I give my image a URL?). You can upload them to something like "webshots" and link to it that way. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurie Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 My husband used cork and grey.. not 1 drop leaked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81EA81 Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) Did it work? Cool so here is a pic of the underside of my block,The hole is right under the oil pump. Edited June 3, 2011 by 81EA81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skishop69 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Not to sound like an a** (that's GD's job ) but you're going to be sorry you used the blue. It's pretty much the worst thing you could have gone with. Hold that... Were you talking the actual blue or the slightly opaque light blue? Blue = might be ok Light blue = toast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92_rugby_subie Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 On the EA82's I have used the cork gaskets but as per a mention from GD, I coated both sides with ultra grey and let the RTV dry before installing the gasket. The RTV plus the cork works great. Totally seals up the cork and sort of 'rubberizes' it. I have done four of them that way so far and none have leaked or failed. +1 Ive done this with GDs recommendation on my engine swap - EA71 to EA81 and we painted the oil pan Chevy Orange to see any leaks... Just saw that car yesterday and was looking it over, still not a drop of oil on that pan, guy says he hasnt lost a drop in 3 oil changes (9k miles) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) One problem with silicone is the cure time. If you can't let it sit...don't commit...Edit:That's not funny. People died there. Perhaps he used something like this. Permatex® Sensor-Safe Blue RTV Silicone Gasket Maker The original Permatex Blue. Will not foul oxygen sensors. Replaces almost any cut gasket. Makes reliable “formed-in-place” gaskets that resist cracking, shrinking and migrating. Coats pre-cut gaskets to increase reliability. Temperature range -65°F to 500°F (-54°C to 260°C) intermittent; resists auto and shop fluids. First generation 1970-1980 gasket maker. Suggested Applications: Valve covers, oil pans, timing covers, water pumps, thermostat housings, transmission pans Or this. Permatex® Ultra Blue® Multipurpose RTV Silicone Gasket Maker OEM specified. Permatex® Ultra silicones were developed to meet today’s technology changes. Sensor-safe, low odor, noncorrosive. Outstanding oil resistance and joint movement values. Eight times more flexible than cork/composite gaskets; three times more oil resistant than conventional silicones. Temperature range -65ºF to 500ºF (-54°C to 260°C) intermittent; resists auto and shop fluids and vibration. Suggested Applications: Valve covers, oil pans, timing covers, transmission pans, differential covers We need MOAR pictures. Edited June 4, 2011 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) Here's what I'm working with. Quality Cork, nothing wrong with that, except it gets oil soaked eventually. Below is a gasket from a Fel Pro set. It's best to check these. I did this cold with a small pin punch then pulling it out. If I heat the block with Mapp Gas, I can pull them out with my hands. If you're up for it, and equipped...Take a Mity Vac or something, seal one end of your pickup, pull a vaccum and tell me what you see. With the pan off and the oil pump out. Doug EA-82, top side of the nice windage trays. But, these are U G L Y. Bottom. Where the oil pickup and screen sit. Whatever makes it past the screen, goes through the oil pump. If you run a strong solvent in the oil in an old Subaru, whatever comes loose goes through the pump. If/when the oil filter has filtered all it can from the stuff knocked loose, it goes into bypass. Then it goes through unfiltered. Cut some filters open and look, I have. Edit: This "Permatex 81422 Hi-Temp RTV, 3oz. Tube JEGS The Original Gasket Maker We've all used it one time another on valve covers, oil pans, etc. and we'll use it again. Makes reliable ''formed-in-place'' silicone gaskets that resist cracking and shrinking. Coats pre-cut gaskets to increase reliability." At JEGS eBay is $11.99 plus shipping. YOW! I'd use it on a Turbo Car tho... Edited June 5, 2011 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) Subaru Fujibond (Gray - Engine Sealer) 5.3 oz $37.00 $37.00 Subaru Fujibond (Red - Transmission Sealer) 8.8 oz. $27.00 $27.00 I've found very little actual info on these. $20.00 plus ship. TB1211 Three Bond Silicone Gasket Heat & Chemical Resistant Three Bond Silicone Gasket Heat and Chemical Resistance -Non solvent type silicone-based -Low viscosity, flowable and excellent workability. -Can be used with solid gaskets and it can be used for temporary fixing of O rings. -Corrodes copper and copper-based alloys. -Can not be used for copper and copper-based alloys in tightly-sealed state. Threebond 1215 This is the highest spec and latest sillicone sealer that THREEBOND manufacture, grey in colour (as aluminium), this sealer is very tough and stable. It can be used instead of gaskets on metal to metal joints and also supplement solid gaskets providing a tough and resistant joint to pressure, shocks, vibrations, petrol, oil, gear oil, liquid coolents, LPG and water. It can fill gaps up to 2.5mm making it a very universal sealer for sump pans, grommets, and water pumps as well. It`s a one component silicone which remains flexible and has no shrinking effect whilst curing. It remains stable between -60deg C and +250 deg C. Most people think of silicone as RTV, which has that 'pear drop' smell, this is light years ahead of that - it has no acetic acid in its composition at all. This drys/cures at 2.5mm per 24 hours at 25 deg C giving you plenty of time to assemble your components. The product skins over quickly (curing from the outside in) providing a pressure resistant seal within minutes of assembly, allowing you to fill with oil and test. This is much thicker than 1104 and is less elastic but stronger. I choose this over 1104 when I need a stronger, more complete joint quicker, or a thicker deposit as this can be sculpted into corners like main bearing caps, cam covers, and outer covers where wires or grommets come through. As with all Threebond products thoroughly clean the surfaces, don't leave any oil on them at all, degrease with thinners, apply evenly to one surface only and proceed with your assembly. After use expel any air in the tube and close the cap . Store in a cool dark place. In my workshop I use this product for modern engines and old alike, cars and bikes. This is a great all-round sealer for any uses including jet ski`s, outboards and marine engines. These tubes are 250grams. Honda bond, yamabond, lancer bond:) Here:http://stores.ebay.com/P-Seager-Engineering/_i.html?_fsub=11103160 PROSEAL RTV Silicone Instant Gasket is the most advanced gasketing material available for today's smaller high performance engines. Won't foul computer sensors. May also be used to coat gaskets for reliable seal. Resists high pressure and temperatures from 650F ( 329C). Resists oil, transmission fluid, water and antifreeze. For use Water Pumps Valve Covers Oil Pans Rear End Housings Transmission Pans Timing Chain Covers And Thermostat Housings First I've seen that go to 750 degrees. MAG INSTANT GASKETGREY PLUS FREE MAG SUPER GLUE 3g MAG RTV Silicone Instant Gasket is the most advanced gasketing material available for today's smaller high performance engines. Won't foul computer sensors. May also be used to coat gaskets for reliable seal. Resists high pressure and temperatures from 750F ( 399C). Resists oil, transmission fluid, water and antifreeze. For use Water Pumps Valve Covers Oil Pans Rear End Housings Transmission Pans Timing Chain Covers And Thermostat Housings MAG INSTANT GASKET WHITE PLUS FREE MAG SUPER GLUE 3g Resist Cracking and Shrinking Dries Tough Yet Flexible Mag RTV Silicone Instant Gasket is the most advanced gasketing material available for today's smaller high performance engines. Won't foul computer sensors. May also be used to coat gaskets for reliable seal. Resists high pressure and temperatures from 500F . Resists oil, transmission fluid, water and antifreeze. For use Exhaust Manifolds Exhaust Crossover Pipes Oil Pump FLANGES Water Pumps Valve Covers Oil Pans Transmission Pans Edited June 7, 2011 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) Most people just make them out of RTV and nothing else. Parts left out cost nothing, sometimes. But if you leave an oil pan gasket off a motor that came with a gasket...not a good idea. The forces at work can be seen and you're giving the oil pump a hard time. In short, if it came with a gasket, use a gasket. There is not "that" much clearance between the strainer and pan. I read about people swapping pans on the EJ but no one talks about that clearance. For example, there's about 1/2" difference between a WRX and an STI in the pickup tube length. And, they don't come factory with a gasket, just red silicone. Doug Edited June 27, 2011 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 For instance, charliew on NASIOC. "Ok, after posting in the 257 thread about the set up wittmer25 has I think I will add that we also deepened the pan we enlarged to give the stock sti pickup more pan clearance. It now has (from memory) about 1/2 inch. I deepened the pan about 3/16 to 1/4 more than the stock sti depth. The stock sti clearance on a new pickup and pan was about .100 from the three small bumps on the shield. We checked it with clay. We also removed the shield thats on the pickup so now its like a wrx pickup. That gave over 1/8 more measured clearance. The pickup and pan bottom are not parallel theres more clearance in the back of the cup on the modded pan." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) Anybody used this: on a oil pan? Man, that would be a slick way to go, huh? It might require a flanged aluminum pan like the Moroso. http://www.anabond.com/liquid_gasketing.htm Anabond liquid gaskets are safer and superior to conventional pre-cut gaskets.It fills surface irregularities and provides leak proof joints.Resistance to wide range of chemicals, oils and fuels.Formed gasket does not creep, shrink or relax.Anabond liquid gaskets withstand pressure up to 120 kg/cm2.Application areas Replace conventional gaskets machined flange surfaces (upto 63 microns).For sheet metal cover and unmachined surface see RTV Silicones for details. I'd love to hear what went through you head when you read the words. Anabond. Edited June 28, 2011 by Quidam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcap Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Anybody used this: on a oil pan? Man, that would be a slick way to go, huh? It might require a flanged aluminum pan like the Moroso. http://www.anabond.com/liquid_gasketing.htm Anabond liquid gaskets are safer and superior to conventional pre-cut gaskets.It fills surface irregularities and provides leak proof joints.Resistance to wide range of chemicals, oils and fuels.Formed gasket does not creep, shrink or relax.Anabond liquid gaskets withstand pressure up to 120 kg/cm2.Application areas Replace conventional gaskets machined flange surfaces (upto 63 microns).For sheet metal cover and unmachined surface see RTV Silicones for details. I'd love to hear what went through you head when you read the words. Anabond. I have used that stuff before. Not so fun if you have to take it off again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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