Aurie Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Hey Guys, Amanda (aka Aurie) here from PDX and I've owned my 1989 Subaru DL for about 4 years with no major problems. Since we've boughten the car, we've replaced all gaskets and rings in the car and loved her. She's my first car, her name is Suebooboo (how my friend's kids say Subaru) About 6 months ago it started having this VERY annoying problem. When you start it, it will have a random idle. It will cough, sputter, and almost die (seriously, like 1 rpm) and then go back up to normal for about 2 seconds, then try to do this again. She tends to "surge" and try to fix herself. My husband and I have replaced (since the problem started) Fuel Pump, MAS EGR Vacuume Fuel Filter Throttle Position Sensor The car (if you drive it in this condition) Kicks.. and it kicks HARD. Usually I try my hardest to get it warmed up (drive the backstreets) till it warms.. and after it warms up (the length of about 4 miles or so) it sometimes goes to normal and runs just fine. NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ON. If I plug in the wires I get EGR, Throttle position sensor, and the code you'd get for "distributor" (sorry I'm at work, no book infront of me) so we replaced those items, CEL went off, and I unplugged the battery to clear the codes, but they just .. won't.. clear from it's history. Replaced spark plugs last August, with air filter (which isn't too dirty) and checked cap/rotor within the past 2 weeks.. I tend to get fed up with the car esp when I take 20 min to get her running right, and I'm getting late leaving, I take my husbands Isuzu Trooper to work. If I go to work at my second job delivering pizzas (usually starting around 4pm) she starts and runs great.. maybe a small hiccup here or there, but nothing like what I expierence at 7:30 each morning. I don't know much about the engine itself, other than it's a 1.8 with auto transmission Fuel injected. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm at my whits end! It doesn't do it all the time, so I can't pinpoint anything. My personal guess is a vacuume leak somewhere, and when the weather is warm, the rubber hose doesn't have the crack in it Aurie PS I can take a video of it if needed, maybe like 30 seconds or a minute or her doing it with the hood up. it'd take me a couple days to post it though, with work n stuff. I have sunday off and could post it then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 What brand of spark plugs are you running? These engines don't like cheap spark plugs, never have. Your best bet are NGK's, but I have personally found the Bosch Platinum +2's work great as well. Your wires are also important. If you haven't changed them in 30k or so, it'd be a good idea to change them out as well. I don't recommend anything but NGK or genuine Subaru, as I've had other brands spark through the boot. Now, after that, we'll see what's going on Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurie Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 Ok I will pick up some on my way home. That is something I myself can do (and feel proud about it too ) anywho - if you can think of anything else (esp cheap options) I'm willing to try them out or at least comment on it. Anything you can think of why the ECM won't clear her codes? Is this common? I left the battery disconnected for 2 hours when we were messing with her Throttle Position Sensor. My hubby and I are also (hopefully soon) going to fully replace her EGR system. He messed with that once and when he was testing it the car acted like it currently does.. I screamed "THATS IT!" but you know how women can be.. we always think we know the answer Aurie Your paticence and support are appreciated lots and lots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Ok I will pick up some on my way home. That is something I myself can do (and feel proud about it too ) anywho - if you can think of anything else (esp cheap options) I'm willing to try them out or at least comment on it. Anything you can think of why the ECM won't clear her codes? Is this common? I left the battery disconnected for 2 hours when we were messing with her Throttle Position Sensor. Probably should unhook the battery overnight, that's the usual procedure when clearing codes. I highly suggest going through Subaru to get new wires as they're more likely to actually have them in stock. My hubby and I are also (hopefully soon) going to fully replace her EGR system. He messed with that once and when he was testing it the car acted like it currently does.. I screamed "THATS IT!" but you know how women can be.. we always think we know the answer Aurie Your patience and support are appreciated lots and lots! Well, if you don't have to worry about emissions, take it out. Get rid of all that EGR garbage if you can. Its all for emissions and does nothing more than choke your car's power. Its really easy, and it only takes a quarter, or a quarter sized flat piece of metal and some time. I'll expound more as necessary Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicchic Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Twitch, would the wires make a difference when the car was cold compared to hot? I'm having the same type of issues although after 5 mins of warming up he's fine. But the sputtering and coughing is there at the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapidElastic Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 How cold are we talking here? My car did this once but it was around -25 celcius. After it warmed up it was fine. And there should be two white connectors that go together and those will clear the codes. I'm not sure of the exact procedure and my book isn't with me. You may have to have the test connectors and the memory clear connectors at the same time I can't remember. My memory clear connectors are in the engine bay by the fuel filter (93 loyale EA82). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurie Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 I have tried connecting the white and greens together at the same time, tried starting the car, on .. off.. etc with different combo's and the codes remain. This Sat night I'm going to take the terminals off all night (as suggested) to see if that clears them Cold as in 7:30am (maybe 40-50 degrees) and noon (60ish?) This has been going on a solid 6 months, off and on late in the day, almost every single morning After all the crap she gave me today, my hubby got in and drove her away at 10:30am not a cough or sputter to be heard *super mad face* When you crank her to first start, she starts within 2 seconds .. stays running for about 3 seconds, then starts her "crap" .. she's also low idling when she does it.. if (on my way to work) I stop to get gas.. when she's in park she super high idles (usually by then she's stopped doing her thing) What makes this hard to diagnose, is that she doesn't always do it, sometimes I get in the car, and she's fine .. I don't mind giving her a general tuneup. Last summer she got a new rear/front oil seal and many new other seals. I don't think we messed up anything during that time, because April '10 she did this one day, and didn't do it again till maybe December? In april she'd do it if I went over 55mph, now she'll do it now matter how much gas I give her. I'm not getting the tell tale "sound" of a misfire, nor any backfire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 i'm no expert by any means, but i would suspect a stuck/gummed up idle air control valve (IAC) especially since it seems to go away when the car is warmed up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurie Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 Thanks heartless, I'll run that by my hubby and see if that's something we've replaced. I'll take any suggestions at this point. Started her at 10am today, not a single attempt at dying.. was 55 degrees outside Will check my spark plugs tomorrow after work, since it'll be about 85 degrees outside... mmm nice days are finally here! I bought some NGK Platinums, and some Boche wires (god the subaru dealers want over $125 for wires here.. eek, I'm not made of gold!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicchic Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Any progress on tracking down the issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurie Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Oh dear, I was going to post here the other day, but I work 2 jobs and threw out my back doing the work on the car, and kinda forgot.. here's an update I went out and bought some NGK Platinum plugs, and installed them. I also got a new air filter and did an oil change. I also topped off all her fluids. She seems to have her power back, she doesn't wallow while driving nearly as much, since I did her MAS (going around a corner and giving it gas) .. She hiccup'd 2x at me this morning, I just floored it and didn't care much if it did it again (I was running late for work). Her problem is NOT a vacume leak from a hose, I doused all hose connections with carb cleaner and it didn't change. It just idles wierd.. like it's still lacking power. We havn't completly ruled out the EGR or IAC yet. I found a video on youtube of someone elses car doing almost the same exact thing. Tonight I'll post the link (I'm at work right now and can't get to youtube) .. Or I'll make my own video from my camera. Now that the weather has gotten warmer, I don't see it being as much of an issue till the weather gets colder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurie Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 This is a video of SOMEONE elses car on Youtube and I thought, maybe someone had the same issue as me.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPmA0I2lLc4 Anywho - his car does it more often, mine will do this within a couple seconds of starting.. and die usually pretty quick then might not do it again for a minute.. but you can see if she does this while you're driving, it'd KICK (like fluttering the gas to tell your drunk friends they better pay for their gas ) When she kicks like that, I almost kiss the steering wheel and when you have panic attacks like I do, I almost want to turn around and not go to work The colder the morning, the worse she is.. I checked her timing, she's right on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 ok, lets back up for just a minute. I know you said there is no check engine light on - as in on steady... first, does the CEL come on for the test function when you turn the key to the "on" position?? if the CEL does not come on for test function, then you need to get a new bulb in there... if yes, (and even if no) i think we need to try reading codes to see if there is something stored in there - it is possible for it to throw an intermittant light that you can miss seeing while driving. link for code reading: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=49918 codes are read at the ECU - under the steering column - via a red LED in the unit. you will need to remove the lower panel from under the dash to see it. i recommend having a pen & notepad handy for writing down the codes as they are flashed start by checking for current codes with no test connectors plugged in - turn key to "on" position (do not start) and watch the led for flashed codes - after you check that you will then need to plug in the "read memory" connectors that should be located under the hood - drivers side up close to the firewall behind the strut tower - very close to the fuel filter - the ones you want i believe are the green ones - a single wire with green connector - there should be a pair - 1 male, 1 female - plug those together, again, turn the key to the on position (do not start), and read the number of long and short flashes from the LED on the ECU - if there are multiple codes, there will be a longer pause between codes, and it will cycle thru all of them repeatedly until you turn the key off so let it do its thing while you make sure you have everything. note - if no real codes are stored, it will give a series of steady flashes (all the same length) 7 - 9 of them, pause and repeat longer flashes stand for 10, short flashes are 1 there are examples given in the above link... do this and report back what is found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurie Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I"m sorry to open an older thread, but after June my car stopped doing this and I couldn't get a video. Funny enough being june it warmed up and I didn't have this problem ALL SUMMER. Once the colder air settled in I noticed my car doing this again and now it's been doing it all winter. I drive delivery for Dominos and on my way to work I fight the car but once I get to work and delivery drive (sometimes up to 80 miles a day) she doesn't do this on my shift at work. 90% of the time it's when I've just started her up. I was finally able to get a smart phone and a video camera on it to enable a video to be taken. No Check Engine Lights via video, (8 blinks normally) but one did surface right before christmas '11 for the charcoal canister and we just replaced that right before the video was shot 2 days ago. She was so bad and I was mad so I drove my husbands 91 Isuzu Trooper delivery driving much to my wallet's dismay. I'm at my whits end. Is anyone in the Portland Oregon area that could suggest a good mechanic because my husband who is VERY knowledgeable about this car is stumped! Suggestions? Here's my video BTW Aurie Edited January 30, 2012 by Aurie add video link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 General Disorder is a really good guy and knows most of these EA engines inside and out. He lives in the Portland area, so you might try contacting him and getting directions to his shop. Twitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Just my 2 cents, I never drive my cars until they have warmed up, unless I'm in a real like emergency type hurry. My carbed 87 just won't drive until it's warm, it'll sputter and stall and buck me around unless I floor it, so I just start it up and let it fast idle around 1500 - 2000 RPM for about 5 to 10 minutes, and then it's good to go. Ben is fuel injected and he doesn't mind the cold too much, but even he will throw a fit if I drive him without warming up first. He takes much longer to warm up though, for whatever reason, but after about 10 to 15 minutes idling with him, he's ready for some 5,000 RPM highway drivin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurie Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Normally I'd do this too, but the other day it kicked me in the pants after 4 hours of solid delivery driving. I almost face planted on the steering wheel and so I took it straight home and its been doing it ever since, warm, cold, just, DIES .. Today I took her to the dealer. I had enough. She died to the point that her power steering went out and when I restarted her everything was back up and running and i floored her all the way to the dealership. Who had the last laugh then!?!? Aurie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89SubaruDL Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I don't mean to post on an old thread either, but my '89 Subaru was doing the same exact thing, I went through and cleaned out the IAC by removing two philips head screws and sprayed some carb cleaner inside, wiggling the pin around, doesn't do it so much anymore. That also knocked off 24 Air Control Valve 31 Throttle Sensor 35 Purge Control Solenoid 42 Idle Switch I hope this helps you out a bit!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurie Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 Um yah I brought her into Carr subaru and they were 98% sure it was throttle body so we replaced the injector and she doesn't die anymore. She does still wallow a bit and have a wierd sputtering idle, but she doesn't die. My hubby had cleaned the injector when this first started and it didn't seem to make difference. We originally said throttle body or fuel. It must have been something on the electrical side I guess. Anywho, mostly fixed, no more chugging, now just a bit of wallowing but that gets over comed by the car upon warming up (you floor it right after starting the car and going and she's like eeyore then after a couple seconds she's like OH RIGHT.. I'm a CAR! and runs like a champ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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